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Post by blazeshoya on Mar 4, 2022 19:20:35 GMT -5
Well, first of all, it's not just these 2 options, Pitino or Ewing. But I -- and others -- see athletics as extensions of the kind of people and school we are, like it or not. They can't be separated. I suspect that that is why JT2 remains such an icon -- he stood for something we also embraced and took it to the highest level, made us proud. I've also lived long enough to also be cynical about collegiate sports and the money and corruption that exists. Is it inevitable? I like to think that they are not, but at the very least I'm not going to simply shrug, say "well, everyone else is cheating, be real", and jump in. I guess that makes me a fool, but we make choices and we live with them. I say be clear on who we are and want to be and surround ourrselves with people that will help us become our better selves. That will make some people gag and scoff, but there it is. I agree with all of this wholeheartedly. However, this is a Georgetown basketball board and the majority of posters on here are upset with the fact that we haven’t been relevant in forever, minus last year’s run. It’s clear that to succeed in basketball (and football, as those are the money makers) you can’t walk the straight and narrow and compete. I don’t believe that you can have both “we want to keep the integrity of who Georgetown has always been, and we want to compete at the highest level in basketball.” I could be wrong but at this point I believe it’s one or the other due to the finances attached to NCAA Division 1 basketball.
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Mar 4, 2022 19:21:26 GMT -5
Apologies for the moralizing and finger-wagging. Got carried away. Apology not needed. I agree with pretty much all you've said. I'm just saying that if we did get Pitino (won't happen), I would throw up in my mouth but then would enjoy the return of great basketball he would undoubtedly bring lol. He's a scumbag but dammit he wins. I'm playing both sides here haha. Of course I don't want him. But maybe...
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Mar 4, 2022 19:53:02 GMT -5
I would be delighted to be wrong, but I don’t draw any reasons for optimism from the statements today. When it comes to Georgetown, I’ve found the more pessimistic view is really the right one. I think Feinstein floated a rumor he heard, and Ewing got mad, just like Ronny got mad when an article got written about him. The basketball team doesn’t generally like media coverage anyway, so anything remotely negative really gets them upset. One of the biggest fan complaints is his stubbornness, and I seriously doubt that a few rumors or negative stories will persuade him to retire. I fear it could have the opposite effect of galvanizing him to stay another year even if he’s stepping aside.
Moreover, I now have zero reason to believe, regardless of what happens, that the University is serious about modernizing its athletics department or the basketball program. We will either have Ewing and Ronny-picked assistants or no Ewing and a Ronny-picked head coach.
The funny thing is, I do think the stories about the attractiveness of the Georgetown job are true. It’s a better job than Maryland. It’s a sleeping giant that, if ever run as anything more than a failing legacy business, would draw lots of interest. If Georgetown conducted a truly open search, it would be amazed by whom it could attract. Folks like Pitino, Mack, and Cooley, whatever their relative strengths and weaknesses, definitely are not out of the question. Nonetheless, I no longer believe anyone at the University with any authority cares to figure this out. They would rather keep throwing money at this miserable state of affairs and hope it works without ever looking in the mirror to see how they got there.
I realize this is not uplifting, but this is where I am.
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3xhoya
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Post by 3xhoya on Mar 4, 2022 19:59:26 GMT -5
I would be delighted to be wrong, but I don’t draw any reasons for optimism from the statements today. When it comes to Georgetown, I’ve found the more pessimistic view is really the right one. I think Feinstein floated a rumor he heard, and Ewing got mad, just like Ronny got mad when an article got written about him. The basketball team doesn’t generally like media coverage anyway, so anything remotely negative really gets them upset. One of the biggest fan complaints is his stubbornness, and I seriously doubt that a few rumors or negative stories will persuade him to retire. I fear it could have the opposite effect of galvanizing him to stay another year even if he’s stepping aside. Moreover, I now have zero reason to believe, regardless of what happens, that the University is serious about modernizing its athletics department or the basketball program. We will either have Ewing and Ronny-picked assistants or no Ewing and a Ronny-picked head coach. The funny thing is, I do think the stories about the attractiveness of the Georgetown job are true. It’s a better job than Maryland. It’s a sleeping giant that, if ever run as anything more than a failing legacy business, would draw lots of interest. If Georgetown conducted a truly open search, it would be amazed by whom it could attract. Folks like Pitino, Mack, and Cooley, whatever their relative strengths and weaknesses, definitely are not out of the question. Nonetheless, I no longer believe anyone at the University with any authority cares to figure this out. They would rather keep throwing money at this miserable state of affairs and hope it works without ever looking in the mirror to see how they got there. I realize this is not uplifting, but this is where I am. I agree with all of this. JT2 built a legacy and it is much easier to fall back and rely on that than pave a new path (ironic because that is exactly what his legacy is). They are comfortable with the Thompson’s due to an underlying feeling that they “do things the right way.” I would like to ask the board a question, and I don’t have enough info myself to answer it. In 2022, if a Georgetown coach is trying to get AI a scholarship does he qualify with his history?
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Post by hsaxon on Mar 4, 2022 20:28:26 GMT -5
I can't imagine that Cooley will possibly leave Providence. He has a bunch of veteran, older, mature players who made this year phenomenal for them and they'll be moving on, but to leave the love and frenzy of this season and his hometown for the losingest team in the BE? Hard to see. I mean, just on this year alone, Cooley will probably never have to pay for a beer or meal for a good long time in Providence. He's also not a spring chicken -- how many rebuilds do you think he has in him? He should have a great recruiting year and can begin anew the climb to the top with retirement pleasantly in the not too far off distance. Just don't think that the Gtown job, attractive as it is, is enough for Cooley to move from where he in now. Maybe you all know something about him that changes the equation. I have zero idea if this changes the equation or not...but his daughter is a current Gtown student. I was told that GU called Cooley five years ago and he was not interested. It is possible that has changed.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 4, 2022 20:59:33 GMT -5
I would be delighted to be wrong, but I don’t draw any reasons for optimism from the statements today. When it comes to Georgetown, I’ve found the more pessimistic view is really the right one. I think Feinstein floated a rumor he heard, and Ewing got mad, just like Ronny got mad when an article got written about him. The basketball team doesn’t generally like media coverage anyway, so anything remotely negative really gets them upset. One of the biggest fan complaints is his stubbornness, and I seriously doubt that a few rumors or negative stories will persuade him to retire. I fear it could have the opposite effect of galvanizing him to stay another year even if he’s stepping aside. Moreover, I now have zero reason to believe, regardless of what happens, that the University is serious about modernizing its athletics department or the basketball program. We will either have Ewing and Ronny-picked assistants or no Ewing and a Ronny-picked head coach. The funny thing is, I do think the stories about the attractiveness of the Georgetown job are true. It’s a better job than Maryland. It’s a sleeping giant that, if ever run as anything more than a failing legacy business, would draw lots of interest. If Georgetown conducted a truly open search, it would be amazed by whom it could attract. Folks like Pitino, Mack, and Cooley, whatever their relative strengths and weaknesses, definitely are not out of the question. Nonetheless, I no longer believe anyone at the University with any authority cares to figure this out. They would rather keep throwing money at this miserable state of affairs and hope it works without ever looking in the mirror to see how they got there. I realize this is not uplifting, but this is where I am. I agree with all of this. JT2 built a legacy and it is much easier to fall back and rely on that than pave a new path (ironic because that is exactly what his legacy is). They are comfortable with the Thompson’s due to an underlying feeling that they “do things the right way.” I would like to ask the board a question, and I don’t have enough info myself to answer it. In 2022, if a Georgetown coach is trying to get AI a scholarship does he qualify with his history? Probably not. I've heard that Dean of Admissions Charlie Deacon had a break with the Athletic Department/Pops over the admission of AI's backcourt mate, Victor Page. Charlie Deacon was adamantly oppose to Page's admission but was overruled. In retrospect, Charlie was proven correct. That being said, my opinion is not based upon any knowledge of how Admissions and the AD/Ewing interact today since Charlie is STILL Dean of Admissions.
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3xhoya
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Post by 3xhoya on Mar 4, 2022 21:41:02 GMT -5
I agree with all of this. JT2 built a legacy and it is much easier to fall back and rely on that than pave a new path (ironic because that is exactly what his legacy is). They are comfortable with the Thompson’s due to an underlying feeling that they “do things the right way.” I would like to ask the board a question, and I don’t have enough info myself to answer it. In 2022, if a Georgetown coach is trying to get AI a scholarship does he qualify with his history? Probably not. I've heard that Dean of Admissions Charlie Deacon had a break with the Athletic Department/Pops over the admission of AI's backcourt mate, Victor Page. Charlie Deacon was adamantly oppose to Page's admission and but was overruled. In retrospect, Charlie was proven correct. That being said, my opinion is not based upon any knowledge of how Admissions and the AD/Ewing interact today since Charlie is STILL Dean of Admissions. Hard to believe he is still Dean of Admissions. That was his position when I was there, 18 years ago. I only ask because there are a lot of holier than though folks who think Georgetown is beyond reproach but I am certain there are skeletons in the closet. Honestly as an alumnus, the prevailing feeling we are above everybody and more moral really bothers me. Not everything is all good or all bad.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 4, 2022 21:52:21 GMT -5
Probably not. I've heard that Dean of Admissions Charlie Deacon had a break with the Athletic Department/Pops over the admission of AI's backcourt mate, Victor Page. Charlie Deacon was adamantly oppose to Page's admission and but was overruled. In retrospect, Charlie was proven correct. That being said, my opinion is not based upon any knowledge of how Admissions and the AD/Ewing interact today since Charlie is STILL Dean of Admissions. Hard to believe he is still Dean of Admissions. That was his position when I was there, 18 years ago. I only ask because there are a lot of holier than though folks who think Georgetown is beyond reproach but I am certain there are skeletons in the closet. Honestly as an alumnus, the prevailing feeling we are above everybody and more moral really bothers me. Not everything is all good or all bad. Dude, I graduated 35 years ago and he was Dean of Admissions back then!
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Mar 4, 2022 21:53:15 GMT -5
Probably not. I've heard that Dean of Admissions Charlie Deacon had a break with the Athletic Department/Pops over the admission of AI's backcourt mate, Victor Page. Charlie Deacon was adamantly oppose to Page's admission and but was overruled. In retrospect, Charlie was proven correct. That being said, my opinion is not based upon any knowledge of how Admissions and the AD/Ewing interact today since Charlie is STILL Dean of Admissions. Hard to believe he is still Dean of Admissions. That was his position when I was there, 18 years ago. I only ask because there are a lot of holier than though folks who think Georgetown is beyond reproach but I am certain there are skeletons in the closet. Honestly as an alumnus, the prevailing feeling we are above everybody and more moral really bothers me. Not everything is all good or all bad. Yeah, I don’t get the folks who think we’ve run an entirely clean program. We do better than most, but we are far from perfects. Ewing himself hasn’t been perfect. Ewing himself had players with major off-court issues several years ago, and we will never know the full extent of what he knew about all that and when he knew it. Plus, our retention statistics are awful under Ewing. I don’t see how we can judge programs like Duke and Kentucky for one-and-done players when we can’t convince players to stay here.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 4, 2022 22:03:24 GMT -5
Probably not. I've heard that Dean of Admissions Charlie Deacon had a break with the Athletic Department/Pops over the admission of AI's backcourt mate, Victor Page. Charlie Deacon was adamantly oppose to Page's admission and but was overruled. In retrospect, Charlie was proven correct. That being said, my opinion is not based upon any knowledge of how Admissions and the AD/Ewing interact today since Charlie is STILL Dean of Admissions. Hard to believe he is still Dean of Admissions. That was his position when I was there, 18 years ago. I only ask because there are a lot of holier than though folks who think Georgetown is beyond reproach but I am certain there are skeletons in the closet. Honestly as an alumnus, the prevailing feeling we are above everybody and more moral really bothers me. Not everything is all good or all bad. I'm class of 1977 and IIRC Joseph Chalmers was the Dean of Admissions when I was admitted in 1973 but Charlie was in the Admissions Office and had the title Director of Admissions. Charlie is C '64.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2022 22:06:17 GMT -5
Apologies for the moralizing and finger-wagging. Got carried away. You did. Especially since, ya know, JT2 was aligned with guys like Michael Gaughan. Great teacher of men and promoter of social justice. Saint, not.
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Mar 4, 2022 22:26:54 GMT -5
Apologies for the moralizing and finger-wagging. Got carried away. You did. Especially since, ya know, JT2 was aligned with guys like Michael Gaughan. Great teacher of men and promoter of social justice. Saint, not. He never thought he was a saint. "There have been a lot of good things said and written about me that are undeserved," he says. "I'm not a guru, I'm not an altruist, and I'm certainly no saint. What I am is a basketball coach. I hope I haven't done things that are bad for the kids who play for me, but what I've done here, I've done for me. I've done them because I think that's what you have to do to win, and my main object is to win. I want to win because I, John Thompson, like to win. It strokes my ego, and I have a big ego. I like the attention, I like being where the heavy action is. I like money. Sometimes I think it would be better for me to get out of this area where I have this reputation and go someplace where all that's expected of me is to be just a basketball coach." vault.si.com/vault/1980/12/01/the-gospel-according-to-john-georgetown-basketball-was-white-and-wan-before-john-thompson-came-in-to-recruit-blacks-and-to-preach-discipline-and-education
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3xhoya
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Post by 3xhoya on Mar 4, 2022 22:36:24 GMT -5
You did. Especially since, ya know, JT2 was aligned with guys like Michael Gaughan. Great teacher of men and promoter of social justice. Saint, not. He never thought he was a saint. "There have been a lot of good things said and written about me that are undeserved," he says. "I'm not a guru, I'm not an altruist, and I'm certainly no saint. What I am is a basketball coach. I hope I haven't done things that are bad for the kids who play for me, but what I've done here, I've done for me. I've done them because I think that's what you have to do to win, and my main object is to win. I want to win because I, John Thompson, like to win. It strokes my ego, and I have a big ego. I like the attention, I like being where the heavy action is. I like money. Sometimes I think it would be better for me to get out of this area where I have this reputation and go someplace where all that's expected of me is to be just a basketball coach." vault.si.com/vault/1980/12/01/the-gospel-according-to-john-georgetown-basketball-was-white-and-wan-before-john-thompson-came-in-to-recruit-blacks-and-to-preach-discipline-and-educationI am not saying he thought he was a saint. I am saying there is a faction of fans who think he was. I think they are mistaken but they cling to the holier than thou attitude because it allows them to tolerate the losses and nepotism and the general indifference to the program itself but reverence to the Thompson’s
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Mar 5, 2022 10:14:21 GMT -5
He never thought he was a saint. "There have been a lot of good things said and written about me that are undeserved," he says. "I'm not a guru, I'm not an altruist, and I'm certainly no saint. What I am is a basketball coach. I hope I haven't done things that are bad for the kids who play for me, but what I've done here, I've done for me. I've done them because I think that's what you have to do to win, and my main object is to win. I want to win because I, John Thompson, like to win. It strokes my ego, and I have a big ego. I like the attention, I like being where the heavy action is. I like money. Sometimes I think it would be better for me to get out of this area where I have this reputation and go someplace where all that's expected of me is to be just a basketball coach." vault.si.com/vault/1980/12/01/the-gospel-according-to-john-georgetown-basketball-was-white-and-wan-before-john-thompson-came-in-to-recruit-blacks-and-to-preach-discipline-and-educationI am not saying he thought he was a saint. I am saying there is a faction of fans who think he was. I think they are mistaken but they cling to the holier than thou attitude because it allows them to tolerate the losses and nepotism and the general indifference to the program itself but reverence to the Thompson’s Also never thought he was a saint, nor did I want or expect saintliness of him. What I loved about JT2 was the man he was with whatever imperfections or excesses and what he achieved. Reading I Came as a Shadow filled out the picture for me, and rather than using it to judge, approve, disapprove or dismiss him and his life, I tried to take the whole man and understand who he was and what he did at a certain point in time under certain conditions. I think it may be true that some people use whatever image they have formed of JT2 to advance their argument. I don't want to make the man something bigger than what he was or mudsling in retrospect just to push my own argument about what we should do now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 10:37:44 GMT -5
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 5, 2022 21:33:49 GMT -5
This makes me think he's "retiring."
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Mar 5, 2022 21:52:50 GMT -5
This makes me think he's "retiring." Yes, the best news I’ve heard all season.
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Mar 5, 2022 22:00:48 GMT -5
I do love the loyalty from Big O
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Post by bearsandbulls on Mar 5, 2022 22:01:23 GMT -5
Flipping control freak who thinks he deserves it. Wants to control the narrative to the end. Sorry PE. You ain't got it as a coach, as good a player as you were. Love you for the latter, lack any empathy for the former. Toast. Done. Be gone. Please help your alma mater.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Mar 5, 2022 22:03:26 GMT -5
Both his last tweet and this statement seem to pretty clearly indicate that Ewing is still viewing "retirement" as a possibility. We have to hope that his commitment to "not being a quitter" is not so great that it blinds him to the reality of the situation, and that he does decide to step aside by the end of next week.
But unless the institution sweeps out all the current program leadership (especially Ronnie), and empowers someone from outside the program to come in and rebuild from scratch - it won't make a whole lot of difference.
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