hoyaguy
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Jan 16, 2022 21:11:32 GMT -5
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Post by hoyaguy on Jan 16, 2022 21:11:32 GMT -5
Is there one of those rankings things that predicts our record? I dread to ask but I just have to know at this point
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Post by hoya8 on Jan 16, 2022 21:11:50 GMT -5
Same here. Long time, probably too long, I remember John Thompson walking past Reiss to his announcement as coach. The best decision that could have been made. Fiercely loyal to the coach and the program when few were. He was the best. Where we are now is truly a low spot. You can dissect the reasons why the team is not performing, no scorer, no power forward, no true physical center and no floor leadership. All can be corrected through coaching, but it does not exist. A wonderful freshmen class, but as we say the only redeeming qualities are that they become sophomores. You may not like Craig or JTIII but they had strong coaches on the bench.
We recruit well as can be expected, but on the floor game management is non-existent. The good coaches realize the importance of bench coach strategists, either there are coaches there who can coach but are not allowed to or there are not.
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daveg023
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Jan 16, 2022 21:12:53 GMT -5
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 16, 2022 21:12:53 GMT -5
Is there one of those rankings things that predicts our record? I dread to ask but I just have to know at this point Bart Torvik projects 3-17
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bamahoya11
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Jan 16, 2022 21:39:57 GMT -5
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Post by bamahoya11 on Jan 16, 2022 21:39:57 GMT -5
We knew coming into the season it would likely be an uphill battle. And then we've been battered with injuries and illness. There's no continuity, chemistry, or confidence. I do think that with a full roster and some consistent units playing together they will get a couple wins. This isn't to make excuses for the staff as I personally think they've run out of the benefit of the doubt. I'm curious tho - where fans' mindsets are: Would you rather have a 4-16 BE season, keep the core of the underclassmen on the roster and keep building next season Or Would you rather go 0-20 if it meant hitting the full reset button with the program I would actually take the former. But I wonder if I'm in the minority. I’ll always pick the option with more wins — I can’t pull against the team. Plus, it’s not like our players want to lose. I hope for them that they get a few wins along the way. But this team needs a reset in a big way. What that looks like and whether Georgetown is capable of that, I’m not sure.
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hoyajmw
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Jan 16, 2022 22:17:53 GMT -5
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Post by hoyajmw on Jan 16, 2022 22:17:53 GMT -5
NOT because I think we should start thinking along these lines but instead purely as a public service, folks might be interested in knowing there are only THREE Big East teams ever to have gone winless in the regular season, and one of those (Depaul/0-18/2008-09) won its first Big East Tourney game. The other two stayed winless through the Big East tournament: Miami '93-'94 (0-18) and Providence in '80 (0-6/first year of conference/before the double round robin, and to complete the ignominy lost its first ever Big East Tournament game -- in the Providence Civic Center). At the other end of the spectrum for the curious, a Big East team has NEVER gone undefeated in the regular season, and officially only 5 teams have completed the regular conference schedule with only one loss -- and three of those were 5-1 in '80 (Hoyas, Johnnies, SUcks). The other two are St. John's '84-85 (their regular season loss was the Sweater Game, and then of course we beat them for the second of three wins over them that year in the Big East Final) and UCONN '96 (we gave them their only loss, too - a real rump roasting at the Cap Centre in a game featuring one of the greatest Hoya jams of all time -- a length of court dash and dunk by AI.) And I say only 5 teams "officially" had only one regular season Big East loss season because SUcks went 17-1 in 2011-12 -- but had to vacate ALL the wins due to the NCAA/Fab Melo cheating scandal. And they lost in the semis of the Big East Tournament to Cincy too. How apt all around.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2022 22:42:00 GMT -5
The last three games were three of the worst games we have played in my 42 years as a Hoya. Just no sense that they have any clear plan on either end of the court. the problem is a lot more than the limited talent ( which, make no mistake, a BIG problem). But the complete lack of ball movement on offense, and sound rotations on defense - even with a young team, there is no way to excuse the coaching staff from a hug chunk of the responsibility for the mess we have seen in the three big east games. At least we seemed to compete for almost the entire game today - I guess that is some form of progress. And Mohammed was definitely forcing the ball into heavy traffic less, and looking to find open teammates when the D started to collapse on him. and rice touched the ball a few times without shooting it . But the progress is so small and incremental - it's hard to feel like any meaningful progress was made today. I watched the end of Denver Anglin's game today on one of the ESPN stations. He plays quite a bit of point guard, and he is a nice, complete guard. But it is hard to feel enthused about him joining the team next year, as the future of this program feels so completely unsteady. Either we keep the current coach and run out basically the same talent while exchanging a few departing senior/grad starters for a few promising looking recruits. Hard to see that as progress, even if the young players improve. Or we have a new coach, and probably the majority of our roster turns over from what we are projecting now. Either way, next season could easily be every bit as bad as this season. Such a tough time to feel anything positive about the program. Maybe. But a decent offensive system can overcome some of that. I cringe every time Harris pounds the ball into the floor for 5-10 seconds waiting for someone to make a (usually lateral) move. Meanwhile the other teams are all about handoffs, dribble-drive/downhill actions, kick outs. Who has the NBA scheme again?
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jan 17, 2022 0:30:16 GMT -5
Keep the faith, Frazier.
We'll be okay.
Go Hoyas!
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blueandgray
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Jan 17, 2022 0:47:20 GMT -5
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 17, 2022 0:47:20 GMT -5
Let’s address the elephant in the room. What would need to happen this season for the university and Ewing to part ways at the end of the season? Is there a scenario where the university initiates a change?
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617hoya
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Jan 17, 2022 0:55:35 GMT -5
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Post by 617hoya on Jan 17, 2022 0:55:35 GMT -5
Let’s address the elephant in the room. What would need to happen this season for the university and Ewing to part ways at the end of the season? Is there a scenario where the university initiates a change? I have a hard time seeing them make any change this summer, which means next year will be even uglier. (esp. if Mohammed leaves). BUT…can they really look away if this team goes winless in Big East play? I really don’t know. That’s the only scenario I can maybe see some real change occurring.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 17, 2022 1:07:19 GMT -5
Let’s address the elephant in the room. What would need to happen this season for the university and Ewing to part ways at the end of the season? Is there a scenario where the university initiates a change? Just like we saw in 2004 and 2017, uncomfortable noise all around Healy Building will move mountains. From 2014: thehoya.com/13-years-in-degioia-outlasts-predecessors-in-presidents-office/20 years and counting... Maybe this can help: Craig Esherick’s BE overall record (1999-2004): BE overall 46-59 = .438 BE reg. sea. 41–53 = .436John Thompson III’s BE overall record (2005-2017): BE overall 146-106 = .579 BE reg. sea. 131–94 = .580Patrick Ewing's BE overall record: BE regular season w/ BET: 30-50 = .375BE regular season w/o BET: 26-47 = .356There is no way to sugar-coat it. His record is so bad compared to his fired predecessors' records.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Jan 17, 2022 1:38:48 GMT -5
Post by prhoya on Jan 17, 2022 1:38:48 GMT -5
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Jan 17, 2022 2:18:56 GMT -5
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Post by trillesthoya on Jan 17, 2022 2:18:56 GMT -5
Let’s address the elephant in the room. What would need to happen this season for the university and Ewing to part ways at the end of the season? Is there a scenario where the university initiates a change? I think a winless big east stretch forces their hand. Honest two or fewer wins probably does it. There probably would need to be something visceral like student protests or boos at the home games, but there aren’t even enough passionate fans of the program to pull something like that off. Realistically the conversations would need to occur at the donor and administration level, because there aren’t even enough of us left to express our discontent visibly to the school in a meaningful way otherwise. The ideal scenario is Ewing himself steps down and they find a guy quickly to take over and retain the players that matter currently and in our 2022 class. Maryland will probably pull something like that since Turgeon and them parted ways so quickly. We will probably slow ball a decision and ruin our chances at finding the right guy early even if we somehow move on from Pat in the offseason.
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daveg023
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Jan 17, 2022 7:33:46 GMT -5
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 17, 2022 7:33:46 GMT -5
Again I encourage everyone who cares to write an email to the athletic department and administration to respectfully voice your displeasure: president@georgetown.edu alumnirelations@georgetown.edu athleticdirector@georgetown.edu rossb@georgetown.edu (assistant to Lee Reed) djo23@georgetown.edu (Deputy AD)
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 17, 2022 8:22:10 GMT -5
Again I encourage everyone who cares to write an email to the athletic department and administration to respectfully voice your displeasure: president@georgetown.edu alumnirelations@georgetown.edu athleticdirector@georgetown.edu rossb@georgetown.edu (assistant to Lee Reed) djo23@georgetown.edu (Deputy AD) Thanks for the email addresses.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 17, 2022 8:45:04 GMT -5
I disagree with those wanting to be more proactive at this time in trying to force a coaching change. As an alum who has followed the program since I was a boy in the 1970s, I did not want Patrick Ewing as the coach and did not think that the school should go with an unproven coach, no matter how great he was as a player. Unlike JT III who had no connection to the school other than through bloodlines, I did not want to see Ewing try and fail. I still search for slivers of hope that he can turn this around. This fansite gives me an outlet to vent, and vent I do during and after each game. There is no defense, and I can not stand the lack of ball movement on offense, but I show up for the next game and while it is unfortunately becoming too easy to lose, I still hope for the win. I still will wait until season's end to make up my mind about the coach and the direction of the team.
I am not certain that calling for a fan revolt is going to help these kids or this program. It has not worked elsewhere and it could further set the program back years. There is talent on this team and while it is clearly poorly constructed, given time and the necessary growing pains it can be the basis for the turnaround we all want, under this coach or another coach. Recruiting is challenging enough and empty arenas make it worse, but having the few remaining diehards publicly calling for firing the coach in mid-season, complaining of the lack of talent on the floor, and generally trashing the program is of little value other than venting out personal frustration and gaining some temporary moment of relief. I am not immune and have written some stupid things in frustration which I later regret. This may be one of them. I know the fear is that without noise the Georgetown Administration will do nothing. I believe that loudest noise possible is the sound of silence in an empty arena during a conference game. If that is not a loud enough message that fans are unhappy then nothing else is going to change that.
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hoyas212
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Jan 17, 2022 8:46:03 GMT -5
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Post by hoyas212 on Jan 17, 2022 8:46:03 GMT -5
Let’s address the elephant in the room. What would need to happen this season for the university and Ewing to part ways at the end of the season? Is there a scenario where the university initiates a change? I don’t think there is a scenario where the university initiates a change, barring off court issues. DeGioia certainly doesn’t want to make a change. The 2020 Big East tournament and coronavirus challenges probably provide enough cover to not make a move. Dikembe Mutombo is now on the Board of Directors and would also likely voice strong opposition to a change. Any “ugliness” at home games from now on would be in the form of even sparser crowds. Can’t see any booing or other vitriol being directed at Ewing during games, given what he has meant to the program and university. And even if classes are back in person towards the end of the season when the weather is nicer, don’t think there is significant student interest anymore and wouldn’t expect to see any planned demonstrations. Also think DeGioia and Reed are aware of how bad the situation is. They hopefully will use all of their influence and power to get Ewing to make many of the long overdue changes to the program.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 17, 2022 9:01:07 GMT -5
I disagree with those wanting to be more proactive at this time in trying to force a coaching change. As an alum who has followed the program since I was a boy in the 1970s, I did not want Patrick Ewing as the coach and did not think that the school should go with an unproven coach, no matter how great he was as a player. Unlike JT III who had no connection to the school other than through bloodlines, I did not want to see Ewing try and fail. I still search for slivers of hope that he can turn this around. This fansite gives me an outlet to vent, and vent I do during and after each game. There is no defense, and I can not stand the lack of ball movement on offense, but I show up for the next game and while it is unfortunately becoming too easy to lose, I still hope for the win. I still will wait until season's end to make up my mind about the coach and the direction of the team. I am not certain that calling for a fan revolt is going to help these kids or this program. It has not worked elsewhere and it could further set the program back years. There is talent on this team and while it is clearly poorly constructed, given time and the necessary growing pains it can be the basis for the turnaround we all want, under this coach or another coach. Recruiting is challenging enough and empty arenas make it worse, but having the few remaining diehards publicly calling for firing the coach in mid-season, complaining of the lack of talent on the floor, and generally trashing the program is of little value other than venting out personal frustration and gaining some temporary moment of relief. I am not immune and have written some stupid things in frustration which I later regret. This may be one of them. I know the fear is that without noise the Georgetown Administration will do nothing. I believe that loudest noise possible is the sound of silence in an empty arena during a conference game. If that is not a loud enough message that fans are unhappy then nothing else is going to change that. Respectfully I disagree. Voicing dissatisfaction is the only power we as alumni and fans have as an agent of change. Doing nothing can be interpreted as tacit approval of the current situation and gives the leadership cover to do nothing. Again with the Giants analogy, but John Mara desperately wanted to keep Joe Judge and didn’t fire him on Black Monday as most other teams do. But the media and fan reaction following the inaction forced his hand.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 17, 2022 9:02:57 GMT -5
My fear is that if we win 3-5 BE games it will be spun as a positive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2022 9:09:52 GMT -5
I disagree with those wanting to be more proactive at this time in trying to force a coaching change. As an alum who has followed the program since I was a boy in the 1970s, I did not want Patrick Ewing as the coach and did not think that the school should go with an unproven coach, no matter how great he was as a player. Unlike JT III who had no connection to the school other than through bloodlines, I did not want to see Ewing try and fail. I still search for slivers of hope that he can turn this around. This fansite gives me an outlet to vent, and vent I do during and after each game. There is no defense, and I can not stand the lack of ball movement on offense, but I show up for the next game and while it is unfortunately becoming too easy to lose, I still hope for the win. I still will wait until season's end to make up my mind about the coach and the direction of the team. I am not certain that calling for a fan revolt is going to help these kids or this program. It has not worked elsewhere and it could further set the program back years. There is talent on this team and while it is clearly poorly constructed, given time and the necessary growing pains it can be the basis for the turnaround we all want, under this coach or another coach. Recruiting is challenging enough and empty arenas make it worse, but having the few remaining diehards publicly calling for firing the coach in mid-season, complaining of the lack of talent on the floor, and generally trashing the program is of little value other than venting out personal frustration and gaining some temporary moment of relief. I am not immune and have written some stupid things in frustration which I later regret. This may be one of them. I know the fear is that without noise the Georgetown Administration will do nothing. I believe that loudest noise possible is the sound of silence in an empty arena during a conference game. If that is not a loud enough message that fans are unhappy then nothing else is going to change that. Respectfully I disagree. Voicing dissatisfaction is the only power we as alumni and fans have as an agent of change. Doing nothing can be interpreted as tacit approval of the current situation and gives the leadership cover to do nothing. Again with the Giants analogy, but John Mara desperately wanted to keep Joe Judge and didn’t fire him on Black Monday as most other teams do. But the media and fan reaction following the inaction forced his hand. I don't want alumni and fans acting as agents of change. Most of them are morons.
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 17, 2022 9:16:29 GMT -5
Respectfully I disagree. Voicing dissatisfaction is the only power we as alumni and fans have as an agent of change. Doing nothing can be interpreted as tacit approval of the current situation and gives the leadership cover to do nothing. Again with the Giants analogy, but John Mara desperately wanted to keep Joe Judge and didn’t fire him on Black Monday as most other teams do. But the media and fan reaction following the inaction forced his hand. I don't want alumni and fans acting as agent of change. Most of them are morons. Seems like a broad generalization, but ok. If you are happy with the product over the last 5 years and want to see (at least) another year, then that is your right and I can’t tell you otherwise. That being said if other fans feel they want to voice their displeasure, that is their right to do so too. I think after 5 years it is a reasonable time to say that this is not some unrealistic or impatient fanatic take.
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