wsdhoya
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Post by wsdhoya on Dec 2, 2021 19:40:56 GMT -5
The team (especially the freshmen) have 5 games to continue to grow/gel before playing a BE opponent. A lot (or for that matter, a little) can happen in that time as far as growth is concerned. To add to that uncertainty, Holloway didn't log significant ( >10) minutes until the Longwood game. I'm not arguing that he'll average 23ppg from here on out, but I think it's clear he's going to be a meaningful player this season. This to say nothing of Clark, who may or may not have an impact if/when fully healthy. Against Dartmouth, Wilson was the starting C. Conversely, he hasn't logged >10 minutes since Siena so it seems Georgetown started it's emergency C (and played him over half the game) in its opening upset. Ewing is figuring out lineups/rotations. I'd expect this with any young team, even moreso when the non-freshmen are fighting injuries or recoveries therefrom. I have a hard time thinking the team (in lineups, rotations, cohesion, and quality of play) will be exactly what we saw as recently as Tuesday. Conference games are a different animal and teams can certainly punch above their weight. We have a BET trophy to prove it. We really can't use that BET as a crutch to hold up the sad state of this program. It was a three day run in what is now only an 11 team league, and the defining win came against a team that was in shellshock after losing its best and most important player/leader two games earlier. Really fun run that was preceded by another atrocious season and followed by a blowout loss in the tournament by a team that didn't even reach the second weekend themselves. Crazy how low expectations have fallen around here.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 2, 2021 20:02:37 GMT -5
That's definitely true but it's just frustrating and unrealistic to rely on the type of freshman we have to produce as much as we need them too. It can stunt their growth as well because they're not coming in and playing in a system with older players. They're being asked to compete surrounded by players that are just as inexperienced. Continuity and experience is so extremely important in college football this year, as has been emphasized by many college football coaches taking advantage of the covid eligibility year. We desperately need to let this team get old, even if it means being bad for four years. I want our freshmen recruits to come in and play behind and alongside experience going forward instead of being thrown into the fire. Coach Ewing is continuing to stir the gumbo and the results will get better as the season goes on - just look at last year when we peaked at the right time and won the Big East Tournament. The coaching staff has been preaching patience and we should listen to them and support them. Dartmouth and St. Joe's just happened to catch us at the right time with the gumbo having only been on the stove for a few minutes. This recruiting class was a top 20 class nationally for a reason. Once the Big East rolls around, they will have their feet wet and be ready to go. We have a talent advantage against Butler, Creighton and DePaul - for sure. We have a coaching advantage against Providence and Xavier. We probably have a talent advantage against Marquette and Shaka Smart will be new to the Big East wars - his team probably won't be ready for the physicality of conference play. Nova, Seton Hall, St. John's and UCONN look tough - but we'll probably get 1-2 wins against that group. I can see 7 wins easily in the Big East with the talent on our roster - remember, that gumbo takes a while to simmer. Who are you, and what did you do with hoyaboya?
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Post by LoudSoundOfREBOUND on Dec 2, 2021 21:06:01 GMT -5
The team (especially the freshmen) have 5 games to continue to grow/gel before playing a BE opponent. A lot (or for that matter, a little) can happen in that time as far as growth is concerned. To add to that uncertainty, Holloway didn't log significant ( >10) minutes until the Longwood game. I'm not arguing that he'll average 23ppg from here on out, but I think it's clear he's going to be a meaningful player this season. This to say nothing of Clark, who may or may not have an impact if/when fully healthy. Against Dartmouth, Wilson was the starting C. Conversely, he hasn't logged >10 minutes since Siena so it seems Georgetown started it's emergency C (and played him over half the game) in its opening upset. Ewing is figuring out lineups/rotations. I'd expect this with any young team, even moreso when the non-freshmen are fighting injuries or recoveries therefrom. I have a hard time thinking the team (in lineups, rotations, cohesion, and quality of play) will be exactly what we saw as recently as Tuesday. Conference games are a different animal and teams can certainly punch above their weight. We have a BET trophy to prove it. We really can't use that BET as a crutch to hold up the sad state of this program. It was a three day run in what is now only an 11 team league, and the defining win came against a team that was in shellshock after losing its best and most important player/leader two games earlier. Really fun run that was preceded by another atrocious season and followed by a blowout loss in the tournament by a team that didn't even reach the second weekend themselves. Crazy how low expectations have fallen around here. I think you're arguing against a point I didn't make. I made no reference to my expectations or the state of the program. My use of the BET was to show that conference games can often be much more of a crapshoot, which benefits the underdog. I can't think of a better example than Georgetown beating three better (by seed) teams, including seeds 1 and 2, in a 3-day span. Also, FWIW I think Villanova was still favored despite Gillespie's injury.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 3, 2021 10:10:36 GMT -5
We were ahead vs Dartmouth with 10+ min to go. We were down 4 to SDSU with under 10 min to go. We had a lead vs SJU with under 10 min to go. Those are our losses. Virtual tossups through 3/4 of the game. Not saying that's a murderer's row - or a decent team wouldn't have won any of those games - but there's no reason to make it out worse than it really is. Wouldn't we irrationally feel better about the overall performance if we were 5-1 right now? We're basically a couple of coin flips away from that.You are absolutely correct. But the key phrase is that we would "irrationally feel better" if we were 5-1 right now. Even if we were 5-1, if we barely beat Dartmouth or St. Joe's, we'd still be in pretty bad shape. Just barely beating 200 to 300 level teams is not acceptable for type of program we want to be. Keep in mind that the horrible 2004 Esherick team started out the year 10-0, but that consisted mostly of beating up a slate of 200-300 teams. Once that team played decent competition it got wrecked. So, even if we had won those games, things wouldn't be rosy. But, I definitely would feel better!
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CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Dec 3, 2021 14:23:00 GMT -5
Cooley is definitely a better coach than Ewing. The results bear that out. I don't get why he gets so much criticism. Yes it's time for him and PC to make the next step but taking them from an afterthought to consistent bubble or tourney team is not something to dismiss so easily. I don’t think Cooley really gets “so much” criticism here. I think there are a couple of very vocal posters who rag on him, but most people on this board think he’s a pretty good coach.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 3, 2021 14:31:21 GMT -5
I don't get why he gets so much criticism. Yes it's time for him and PC to make the next step but taking them from an afterthought to consistent bubble or tourney team is not something to dismiss so easily. I don’t think Cooley really gets “so much” criticism here. I think there are a couple of very vocal posters who rag on him, but most people on this board think he’s a pretty good coach. How many NCAA Tournament games has Cooley won?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 3, 2021 17:18:17 GMT -5
I don't get why he gets so much criticism. Yes it's time for him and PC to make the next step but taking them from an afterthought to consistent bubble or tourney team is not something to dismiss so easily. I don’t think Cooley really gets “so much” criticism here. I think there are a couple of very vocal posters who rag on him, but most people on this board think he’s a pretty good coach. hoyaboya hates Cooley has has for years. I think overall people on this board respect him. The idea that Providence would be able to easily fire Cooley and replace him with someone better is ludicrous.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 6, 2021 10:22:30 GMT -5
You can add the NET rankings to this list - #247 just ahead of Alcorn St. Pretty impressive stuff by Pat Ewing.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 6, 2021 10:23:38 GMT -5
/photo/1
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 6, 2021 10:35:33 GMT -5
Didn’t Marquette and Creighton have as much roster turnover as us? Didn’t DePaul just bring in a new coach? Guess they didn’t require the same patience we need to have here despite paying our staff more than theirs.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 6, 2021 10:49:10 GMT -5
Didn’t Marquette and Creighton have as much roster turnover as us? Didn’t DePaul just bring in a new coach? Guess they didn’t require the same patience we need to have here despite paying our staff more than theirs. I think I heard the tv crew say that SC had 8 new players… no excuses…
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Post by wponds on Dec 6, 2021 11:00:58 GMT -5
Are we surprised by this ranking though? I'm not. I'm more surprised that KenPom has us at 117. The only teams we beat are American, Siena, and Longwood. Our 4 losses are by an average of 10.5 points.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 6, 2021 11:30:43 GMT -5
I’m a numbers person. Statistics don’t lie. We’re bad.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 6, 2021 11:35:18 GMT -5
KenPom still factors in results from last year, although that starts to decrease as we get further into the current season.
NET is what the NCAA uses as a major criteria for selection, and that's just simply not even close to acceptable. Ever.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 6, 2021 11:55:21 GMT -5
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 6, 2021 12:12:10 GMT -5
I’m a numbers person. Statistics don’t lie. We’re bad. We are very, very bad.
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 6, 2021 12:15:23 GMT -5
KenPom still factors in results from last year, although that starts to decrease as we get further into the current season. NET is what the NCAA uses as a major criteria for selection, and that's just simply not even close to acceptable. Ever. This ^^^^ When you pay for a Top 20 program no matter what happens, the entire roster could be lost in an offseason, the expectation is you should never be below a Top 100-125 team. I really can’t rationalize with people who think more patience is deserved. Competent leadership ensures a high floor no matter the luck, injuries, bad calls, etc.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 9, 2021 0:22:03 GMT -5
Nice bumps with the solidly efficient win vs. UMBC.
RPI: 305 > 294 BT: 190 > 169 KenPom: 117 > 110
Hoping for a decent bump in NET tomorrow AM too. EDIT: NET 245 > 205
BT now has us as a 4 point dog for Saturday.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 11, 2021 14:53:58 GMT -5
Post Cuse win.
RPI: 294 > 218 BT: 169 > 167 KenPom: 110 > 107
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 13, 2021 15:14:03 GMT -5
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