smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 23, 2021 13:14:28 GMT -5
I sure hope that does not happen. I want more bodies flying in and out- by no means less. Yeah, that can’t be done efficiently. It’s really hard to play 9-10 efficiently given the constant stop-start of TV and other TOs. Guys need multiple trips and possessions to get in a rhythm on both ends. We’ve been over this dozens of times. ESPN the mag did a great piece on this like 8/9 years ago looking at Final Four teams of then previous 20 years and rotation averages. Sweet spot was just under 8 (like 7.8) and they also gathered some data on playing longer rotations and efficiency fell off a cliff in the high 8s. Therefore, it’s actually a mistake to play more than 9. I also suspect the real magic is playing 9 regularly and being able to pare that to your best 7 in game (a la Rice was off vs. AU, so you severely cut his minutes) to maximize efficiency. The “wave-after-wave” concept is oversimplified madness. Nobody tries that, nor should they.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 23, 2021 14:16:43 GMT -5
I sure hope that does not happen. I want more bodies flying in and out- by no means less. I also suspect the real magic is playing 9 regularly and being able to pare that to your best 7 in game (a la Rice was off vs. AU, so you severely cut his minutes) to maximize efficiency. Agree. Pops Thompson was the last (and only) coach I've seen do that successfully. I know, I had to manually keep track of minutes played for the box scores. It was near complete choas (but naturally, always virtually 100% correct).
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 23, 2021 14:24:10 GMT -5
I also suspect the real magic is playing 9 regularly and being able to pare that to your best 7 in game (a la Rice was off vs. AU, so you severely cut his minutes) to maximize efficiency. Agree. Pops Thompson was the last (and only) coach I've seen do that successfully. I know, I had to manually keep track of minutes played for the box scores. It was near complete choas (but naturally, always virtually 100% correct). I like how NBA.com has quit trying to make it work out exactly, and now lists playing times with percentages of minutes. So ludicrous when you’re trying to decide which guy gets a full minute and which minimal appearance will be “zeroed” out. As a guy who’s kid is a walk-on and occasionally gets one of those 0+ stat lines, I notice such absurdities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 14:27:30 GMT -5
I think Georgetown needs to play a lot of guys this year mainly because we’re probably not going to be very good so development of the younger guys on the roster has to be a priority. On a side note I think it’s correct that about 8 is the proper number. It will be interesting to see what happens with Purdue as the season goes on because they have been playing a lot of guys and tbh all are deserving www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2509
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Post by bigelephant on Nov 23, 2021 14:39:54 GMT -5
I think Georgetown needs to play a lot of guys this year mainly because we’re probably not going to be very good so development of the younger guys on the roster has to be a priority. On a side note I think it’s correct that about 8 is the proper number. It will be interesting to see what happens with Purdue as the season goes on because they have been playing a lot of guys and tbh all are deserving www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2509Very interesting.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 23, 2021 14:52:19 GMT -5
Agree. Pops Thompson was the last (and only) coach I've seen do that successfully. I know, I had to manually keep track of minutes played for the box scores. It was near complete choas (but naturally, always virtually 100% correct). I like how NBA.com has quit trying to make it work out exactly, and now lists playing times with percentages of minutes. So ludicrous when you’re trying to decide which guy gets a full minute and which minimal appearance will be “zeroed” out. As a guy who’s kid is a walk-on and occasionally gets one of those 0+ stat lines, I notice such absurdities. I gave one of those guys (Craig Esherick) a full minute for his shot against GW back in the day.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 23, 2021 15:11:28 GMT -5
I sure hope that does not happen. I want more bodies flying in and out- by no means less. Yeah, that can’t be done efficiently. It’s really hard to play 9-10 efficiently given the constant stop-start of TV and other TOs. Guys need multiple trips and possessions to get in a rhythm on both ends. We’ve been over this dozens of times. ESPN the mag did a great piece on this like 8/9 years ago looking at Final Four teams of then previous 20 years and rotation averages. Sweet spot was just under 8 (like 7.8) and they also gathered some data on playing longer rotations and efficiency fell off a cliff in the high 8s. Therefore, it’s actually a mistake to play more than 9. I also suspect the real magic is playing 9 regularly and being able to pare that to your best 7 in game (a la Rice was off vs. AU, so you severely cut his minutes) to maximize efficiency. The “wave-after-wave” concept is oversimplified madness. Nobody tries that, nor should they. Respectfully disagree. It can be done when you have a deep bench- which most teams do not. I am upset every time I see no subs before the 16:00 mark in the first half. Sub early and often! I would add at least twenty, and perhaps as many as forty, to what we have been seeing.
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Post by bigelephant on Nov 23, 2021 16:54:52 GMT -5
What ever.
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wsdhoya
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Post by wsdhoya on Nov 23, 2021 17:12:20 GMT -5
I predicted a 74-70 win over in the prediction thread. Here's why.
I just don't think SDSU is that good, but then again neither are we. I think our 3 point shooters play just well enough to give us the win, with a surprisingly stingy defense pleasing the fans. They beat a mediocre Arizona State team by 2 and struggled over UT Arlington, both at home. Go out and get a big win, Hoyas! These are the games we have to win because we will be overmatched in a lot of games in conference. Take advantage of the winnable ones including the bottom of the conference, and that will allow us to keep NIT hopes despite facing talent gaps against Nova, UCONN, SHU, Johnnies, etc.
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Post by wrestlemania on Nov 23, 2021 17:21:42 GMT -5
I live in Maryland and can't find it anywhere. It's not like that Twitch thing, is it?
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 23, 2021 17:26:53 GMT -5
I live in Maryland and can't find it anywhere. It's not like that Twitch thing, is it? Fox Sports 2. I don't know what service you use but it's channel 618 on DirecTV in the NE. If you don't use cable/satellite, this should help: www.killthecablebill.com/tv/channels/fs2/
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Post by wrestlemania on Nov 23, 2021 17:38:52 GMT -5
I live in Maryland and can't find it anywhere. It's not like that Twitch thing, is it? Fox Sports 2. I don't know what service you use but it's channel 618 on DirecTV in the NE. If you don't use cable/satellite, this should help: www.killthecablebill.com/tv/channels/fs2/Thank you.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 23, 2021 17:46:33 GMT -5
Not sure those are talent gaps. Skill and experience gaps is more like it.
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wsdhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by wsdhoya on Nov 23, 2021 17:51:39 GMT -5
Not sure those are talent gaps. Skill and experience gaps is more like it. Yes that was definitely more what I meant. Just a gap at the present moment, not in terms of potential or talent ceiling.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 23, 2021 17:56:09 GMT -5
Yeah, that can’t be done efficiently. It’s really hard to play 9-10 efficiently given the constant stop-start of TV and other TOs. Guys need multiple trips and possessions to get in a rhythm on both ends. We’ve been over this dozens of times. ESPN the mag did a great piece on this like 8/9 years ago looking at Final Four teams of then previous 20 years and rotation averages. Sweet spot was just under 8 (like 7.8) and they also gathered some data on playing longer rotations and efficiency fell off a cliff in the high 8s. Therefore, it’s actually a mistake to play more than 9. I also suspect the real magic is playing 9 regularly and being able to pare that to your best 7 in game (a la Rice was off vs. AU, so you severely cut his minutes) to maximize efficiency. The “wave-after-wave” concept is oversimplified madness. Nobody tries that, nor should they. Respectfully disagree. It can be done when you have a deep bench- which most teams do not. I am upset every time I see no subs before the 16:00 mark in the first half. Sub early and often! I would add at least twenty, and perhaps as many as forty, to what we have been seeing. There are almost no teams where there isn't a big drop off in talent after the 8th or 9th guy. My question is, what is the benefit of playing guys for the sake of giving everyone minutes? Other than experience, I don't really see any. It's too early to say right now (and we haven't even seen Holloway or Clark), but in my mind, it seems like Carey and Aminu probably need to have their minutes maxed out at whatever they can handle, which is almost surely above 30 minutes a game. Similarly, I think Dante Harris is going to be in the same range. So on that alone, you have 3 guys who are already at 30+ per game. Then you have Ighoefe/Wilson/Mutombo who are basically going to take up 40 minutes at the center position, as there hasn't been any small ball. So basically, you're left with 70 minutes for everyone else. If everyone on the roster had equal ability/skill, there may be more merit to it, but when you have a guy like Aminu Mohammed, who is clearly way better than his replacement substitute, you just cannot afford to sit he guy.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 23, 2021 18:07:01 GMT -5
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 23, 2021 18:16:32 GMT -5
Yeah, that can’t be done efficiently. It’s really hard to play 9-10 efficiently given the constant stop-start of TV and other TOs. Guys need multiple trips and possessions to get in a rhythm on both ends. We’ve been over this dozens of times. ESPN the mag did a great piece on this like 8/9 years ago looking at Final Four teams of then previous 20 years and rotation averages. Sweet spot was just under 8 (like 7.8) and they also gathered some data on playing longer rotations and efficiency fell off a cliff in the high 8s. Therefore, it’s actually a mistake to play more than 9. I also suspect the real magic is playing 9 regularly and being able to pare that to your best 7 in game (a la Rice was off vs. AU, so you severely cut his minutes) to maximize efficiency. The “wave-after-wave” concept is oversimplified madness. Nobody tries that, nor should they. Respectfully disagree. It can be done when you have a deep bench- which most teams do not. I am upset every time I see no subs before the 16:00 mark in the first half. Sub early and often! I would add at least twenty, and perhaps as many as forty, to what we have been seeing. So Duke, UK and Kansas don’t do it when they have high 3star and 4 star guys at the ends of their benches. But GU should do it with 2 stars and projects? Sounds right. Dude, I like your enthusiasm, but this just isn’t a good argument. NOT a good hill to die on.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 23, 2021 18:35:56 GMT -5
Respectfully disagree. It can be done when you have a deep bench- which most teams do not. I am upset every time I see no subs before the 16:00 mark in the first half. Sub early and often! I would add at least twenty, and perhaps as many as forty, to what we have been seeing. So Duke, UK and Kansas don’t do it when they have high 3star and 4 star guys at the ends of their benches. But GU should do it with 2 stars and projects? Sounds right. Dude, I like your enthusiasm, but this just isn’t a good argument. NOT a good hill to die on. Add to this that the philosophy is wildly different than when Big John did it. He'd run out guys that offered very little on offense but would run for days on defense. And, that's all Big John was asking of them. We don't do that and we couldn't if we wanted to. Patrick (and, basically, every other coach) doesn't recruit guys specifically for defense. And, players today, to a large extent, wouldn't settle for being exclusively a defensive sub.
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hoyainla
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Suspended
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Post by hoyainla on Nov 23, 2021 19:47:54 GMT -5
After watching a few games SDSU is nowhere near the team they were the past few years at least not yet. They can play defense but can't score. Not sure what happened to Bradley's jumper but it's not going down for him right now though we know he can make them. If Aminu can contain him and we rebound we should stay in this one. If Aminu wants to prove he is an NBA player these are the games that will impress scouts. If we leave Bradley open I could see this being an elixir game for him. The whistle will also play a big role in this one. They get to the line a lot. I have this bad feeling that Tim is going to pick up 2 early fouls which we can't afford. If the refs let them play that would be an advantage for us.
On offense Dante will be the key. He has to play a smart unselfish game. If he can set us up for easy buckets we can score enough. If he tries to do too much it will be a disaster. This is a game we should try to run on every miss to get a shot up before they get set. If this game is played with us in the half court advantage SDSU. They will try to slow the game down and we can't let them. We need to try to get to our season average of 74 possessions. We have to be ready to take the open shots when they present themselves. We can't overpass thinking we will get a better shot because we probably won't. If we aren't ready we could look like the Butler offense yesterday versus Houston.
I am not sure they are a tournament team this year. If they were in the Big East I think they would be near the bottom with us. We won't be the favorites but it's a more winnable game than it looked like preseason. I think regardless how this one turns out we leave Anaheim 1-1. Beating SDSU and losing to USC would be the better of the two 1-1 possibilities.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 24, 2021 7:20:22 GMT -5
Respectfully disagree. It can be done when you have a deep bench- which most teams do not. I am upset every time I see no subs before the 16:00 mark in the first half. Sub early and often! I would add at least twenty, and perhaps as many as forty, to what we have been seeing. So Duke, UK and Kansas don’t do it when they have high 3star and 4 star guys at the ends of their benches. But GU should do it with 2 stars and projects? Sounds right. Dude, I like your enthusiasm, but this just isn’t a good argument. NOT a good hill to die on. Well, it is my hill, and I will plant the flag. There are myriad benefits of having nine or ten guys see the court, and I want to see the Hoyas do it this year. Having a deep bench, and leveraging it to wear down teams, and turn the game chaotic, is one of our best assets. We need to use it. Now, the last three or so guys on the bench only may be getting five minutes or so in many games. I am NOT advocating for equal minutes, but I am pushing for a lot of guys to see the court. Also, I am pushing for lots of subs in and out to change our looks constantly. We want up and down games in which we push other teams to play too frantic of a pace and win ugly, gritty games. Using tons of subs is a great way to do that. I hope that Patrick keeps playing the guys we have seen so far, plus Clark and Holloway. Like I said, we shall see.
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