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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 13, 2021 17:14:04 GMT -5
I agree with you that I wish the end of the bench were better players. Unfortunately, Pat had turned his focus to the '21 class after he got Mac/Akinjo/Leblanc/Wahab so he didn't have those connections to backfill the '20 class on such short notice. We were only supposed to have 2-3 spots. Tyler was the real gem of that late scramble and he made the right personal decision to not play CBB this year. Our starters nearly blew a 20 point lead. Trust me, I wanted to see more minutes for the freshman (look at my posts at halftime) but I dont think that game was ever in hand enough to empty the bench. Also, keep in mind that we DID see Sibley and Wilson in the 2nd. Really Berger is the real big miss, which I agree with but I don't think it's enough for the gnashing of teeth in this post game. While I agree with much of your post, the lead never went below 13 or 14. The starters did not "nearly blow" our lead. You're right, it just felt that way. Better wording would be that they "started to blow the lead". Pat reigned them in and they held out til the buzzer. TBH that's probably the most promising thing about this game, that we actually held them back through the buzzer. Maybe that's why Pat kept the players in, so they could learn how to close out a game.
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Feb 13, 2021 17:17:44 GMT -5
I am having a hard time with the play the freshman folks. Coach has shown that he has no difficulty in playing freshman if they are ready. Now all of a sudden he has decided not to play freshman who can help? Common folks, let's be fair. If the freshman, who are not getting burn could help, they would be playing.
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Post by gojeffgoroyunder7 on Feb 13, 2021 17:21:49 GMT -5
I am having a hard time with the play the freshman folks. Coach has shown that he has no difficulty in playing freshman if they are ready. Now all of a sudden he has decided not to play freshman who can help? Common folks, let's be fair. If the freshman, who are not getting burn could help, they would be playing. Of course, but even with a 15 point victory, some people can't help themselves. Patrick is trying to win now. Period. He owes at least that to Blair and Pickett.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 13, 2021 17:22:20 GMT -5
I am having a hard time with the play the freshman folks. Coach has shown that he has no difficulty in playing freshman if they are ready. Now all of a sudden he has decided not to play freshman who can help? Common folks, let's be fair. If the freshman, who are not getting burn could help, they would be playing. When did he play a freshman when he wasn't forced into it?
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Post by seahoya on Feb 13, 2021 17:25:24 GMT -5
The goal should be winning as many games as possible to help land future recruits in the top 125. That is how this thing gets turned around. We got a good one in Dante, but to expect recruits in the 250-plus range to make you a winning team in a major conference is foolish. When I watch the Hoyas, I focus on two players: Q and Dante, and hope they grow to be All-Big East-type players. It is not to see Berger, Clark and Holloway get minutes. If they earn time, great. If they get recruited over, so be it.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 13, 2021 17:26:00 GMT -5
The key for me is that the top 6 kids on this team who are made up of 4 seniors aren't getting Gtown to the middle of the conference. I don't think any of the freshmen will get Gtown to a championship-level team but I'd like to see if they can be contributors to a middle of the pack BE team... Using championships as a baseline for this discussion is way off in my opinion... That's fair. I don't see Holloway for middle of pack BE team. Kobe could be a solid 8th man but I don't think he has the athleticism. Berger could be a solid 3-pt specialist but again he wouldn't be a starter or anything higher then 7th man spark. I hope all 3 develop but development happens in the hours of practice, not the 2-3 minutes of game time they may get. Not sure how you can be so definitive about this have you seen the rosters of the middle of the conference BE teams? Plus having solid 7th & 8th rotation kids would be a lovely change in my book...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 17:28:52 GMT -5
All Bile did was score 17 points, get 6 rebounds and shoot two out of three from the three point arc and all you people do is just complain complain complain! You people make me sick!
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 13, 2021 17:33:27 GMT -5
Sounds like Glide... š§
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Post by capcenterhoya on Feb 13, 2021 17:33:45 GMT -5
It is a complete straw man argument to claim keeping guys like Berger and Sibley on the bench is the difference between winning and losing games. We probably would not have beaten St. John's if Berger had sat on the bench. There is a certain obliviousness, if not callousness, for Ewing not to provide token minutes to his bench in a blowout. Especially in a season like this where guys have sacrificed a lot to comply with all of the protocols.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 13, 2021 17:35:11 GMT -5
Best passing game of the year! Blair and Pickett did what they were supposed to do. Congratulations to both young men!
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TrueHoyaBlue
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Feb 13, 2021 17:42:12 GMT -5
While thereās plenty that needs to be cleaned up (turnovers, yikes!), Iām glad, especially after a 1-5 start, to see the ream in 9th place in the Big East, and almost as close to 4th place as to 11th. While 4th is a pipe dream, itās within reach for these Hoyas to finish 7th or even 6th, especially as most of their remaining games are against teams just ahead in the standings. Iāll take that, given expectations at the beginning of the season. While I donāt expect to beat Seton Hall, I think thereās an opportunity to close the season strong. And my guess is that with all the games weāve blown late in the last few seasons, having anyone on the team learn to close a game was job #1 for coach.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 13, 2021 17:43:13 GMT -5
Great defensive effort. SHOCKING offensive effort. Just tragically terrible. And clear as day now that 9-13 on roster canāt play dead, or Pat would have put them in when boys were up 20+.
Game was a referendum on how atrocious Butler is. They are worst team Iāve seen in BE in years.
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Post by trillesthoya on Feb 13, 2021 17:50:43 GMT -5
Great defensive effort. SHOCKING offensive effort. Just tragically terrible. And clear as day now that 9-13 on roster canāt play dead, or Pat would have put them in when boys were up 20+. Game was a referendum on how atrocious Butler is. They are worst team Iāve seen in BE in years. I mean theyāve swept DePaul already and have five more conference wins than DePaul. Why isnāt any of the horrid DePaul team the last several seasons the worst?
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Feb 13, 2021 17:51:54 GMT -5
What a difference ball movement makes! I am not a play the freshmen voice but in my mind it should be sit the players who go rogue and stray from the offense. Blair is the prime example today. He ended up with his points but still a poor shooting performance and 9 TOs! Should have been brought out of the game way sooner than the stupid technical just to calm him down and remind him not to start forcing shots. Ewing should know that is exactly how Big John handled these situations. Even Ewing got yanked and coached on the bench to calm down. Pickett had too many TOs but a very solid game again on both ends of the court otherwise.
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 13, 2021 17:55:25 GMT -5
That's fair. I don't see Holloway for middle of pack BE team. Kobe could be a solid 8th man but I don't think he has the athleticism. Berger could be a solid 3-pt specialist but again he wouldn't be a starter or anything higher then 7th man spark. I hope all 3 develop but development happens in the hours of practice, not the 2-3 minutes of game time they may get. Not sure how you can be so definitive about this have you seen the rosters of the middle of the conference BE teams? Plus having solid 7th & 8th rotation kids would be a lovely change in my book... Yes, I have watched the middle of the pack BE teams...have you? For examples: UConn 5th place - 7th person Tyler Polley F (20.4 MPG 8.2ppg, 2.3 rpg) 8th Adam Sanogo F (15.2 MPG 6.6ppg 3.9 rpg) both those guys are performing better then Sibley right now, not to mention Kobe or TJ. St Johns 6th place - 7th man Isiah Moore F (17.5 mpg 9.2 ppg, 4.8 rpg) 8th man Marcelus Earlington (16.3 mpg, 6.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg). Again, outperforming our Hoyas. Georgetown 10th place - 7th man Timmy I (9.4 mpg 2.8 ppg 3.6 rpg) 8th man Jamari Sibley (6.2 mpg, 1.5 ppg, 1.5 rpg), 9th man TJ Berger (4.8 mpg 1.7 ppg, 0.1 rbg 0.6 apg). In comparison, the closest UConn guy to those averages are their 9th, 11th, and 12th man. Closest StJ guys are their 9th, 10th, 11th respectively. If you want to argue that they have more MPG sure, I don't have the per 40 stats but they still don't match up. I agree that they would be great 7th and 8th rotation guys someday but to get there they need development. Neither are ready for that this year. They are currently the 9th and 10th and it makes sense for where they are in their development. We could give them another 5 mpg but then Pat and the Hoyas are currently 3-13 and we are firmly in 11th rather then getting to look down on DePaul and have a fighting chance at 7th-9th. When it comes down to it, a coach's responsibility is to win. A lot of fans are ready to give up wins now for wins later. Unfortunately it doesnt work that way, wins later are not guaranteed. You try to win every time you're on the court.
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kbones17
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Post by kbones17 on Feb 13, 2021 17:58:29 GMT -5
Itās really tough to objectively evaluate this team. Iām sure if I go read just my comments, it would seem as a bipolar mess of praise and criticism. On one hand, we are probably meeting (or even exceeding) the very low expectations most had for this team once the roster was decimated. 4 conference wins, and being competitive in all but a few really is as much as I could have asked for. We have shown a willingness to shoot more 3s this year, and itās paid dividends (like today). Defensively, while still far from great, there have been signs of improvement and better effort. Inbounds plays and breaking pressure is definitely better than it was earlier this year. I really feared a 1-2 win BE season and a lot more blowouts. So for that there should be no complaints. On the other hand, we have made little progress in protecting the ball. Our TO margin is among the lowest across 350 D1 teams, and only seems to be getting worse. Substitution patterns continue to be a bit head scratching and player development has been a little underwhelming. Thatās why today even in a win you are seeing this mixed reaction. I think the fan base is desperate for signs of optimism weāve turned the corner and it always just feels like itās thereās a āyea, butā in most of wins. I get that progress isnāt linear, but for many who are trying to evaluate if we are truly on a path to return to being a good program again, days like today make that evaluation hard. At the end of the day we all like wins more than losses, but I think at least for me personally, I like to see things that can indicate we are ready to consistently win. Iād trade a win this year for 2 next year, but thatās a fan mentality, and you canāt expect the players and coaches to think that way in the present. Given the reset of the program in Year 3, I think everyone is still unsure of what we have 3.5 years in, and thus youāll get this response. In some ways it feels like SJU, as theyāve had runs of moderate success and then bottom of the conference play. Perhaps theyāve turned the corner? But then when you think that they blow the Butler game. For us it kind of feels the same where thereās just enough positive moments that keep you optimistic for the future, but there always feels like a regression or a stalling out to take the next step. A strong finish this year will greatly help change the perception that this isnāt a just a case of us spinning our wheels. good post
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kbones17
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Post by kbones17 on Feb 13, 2021 18:07:07 GMT -5
My biggest takeaway from this game is that Butler is bad and Iām impressed/surprised that they somehow have 6 conference wins. Our Defense was better today, but again, hard to tell how much of that was that Butler being bad. Blair was playing way too loose in the second half, it seemed like he got his 1,000 point then wanted to make it into a highlight game for himself. Jacking up threes and just basically playing like it was a pickup game. But we hit shots and Butler is bad and so...yeah. We win.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2021 18:16:00 GMT -5
Sounds like Glide... š§ Cut it!
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Feb 13, 2021 18:21:55 GMT -5
It is a complete straw man argument to claim keeping guys like Berger and Sibley on the bench is the difference between winning and losing games. We probably would not have beaten St. John's if Berger had sat on the bench. There is a certain obliviousness, if not callousness, for Ewing not to provide token minutes to his bench in a blowout. Especially in a season like this where guys have sacrificed a lot to comply with all of the protocols. If your argument is throw them a bone, because they have given up a lot this season, no one will disagree with that. But if your argument is building for the future at the expense of winning today, then there is going to be major disagreement.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Feb 13, 2021 18:23:09 GMT -5
Wilson got what a minute? Sibley got 5? I am don't think there are a lot of answers on this roster but Clark or Berger don't give that game away. There is also the future recruiting implications. Why did he use all the scholarships then? We are already in the spot where we have to get rid of someone now unless Carey is a senior. You are talking about a coach who played freshman at the cost of potential tournament teams when looking toward the future. Is he that desperate to not finish in last place now? I hope he is because that means he thinks he will be held accountable for his accomplishments so far. I don't think that is the case. Which team was a tournament team that was sacrificed by playing freshman? In 2018-2019, the only reason we even made the NIT was because of playing freshman. 2019-2020, Qudus was the only FR to get minutes before the transfers. Then are you talking about 2017-2018? Do you think that playing FR Blair and Pickett then stopped Dickerson, Mulmore, Mosely, Derrickson, Govan, Mourning from getting to the postseason? Finally, trust me, I do want Kobe and TJ to get minutes but I will take W today over them getting the 1-5 minutes ANY DAY. I assume you agree? The 1st two teams of the Ewing tenure greatly underachieved based on the talent because he played Pickett, Blair, and McClung way too much. He also played Mourning too much over a freshman which shows how truly clueless he was. He played his guys and his godson way too much. If there is ever a decision to make the odds are he will make the wrong one. I think both teams get to the tournament with a good coach. Now that we see what a truly bad roster looks like we realize how good those first two years were. The biggest favor Ewing has got was the guys leaving last year. They provided him and his supporters an excuse and he didn't have to make any tough choices. Kobe and TJ getting minutes is not mutually exclusive from winning. My original post was pretty tongue in cheek to be honest. I agree that the freshman are back end rotation guys on a good team at best. I have been one of the only ones voicing my displeasure with the class from the beginning so I agree with you. I also don't think Bile or Tim are rotation guys on a good team so not sure any of that matters. Everyone outside of Pickett, Blair, Q and quickly becoming Dante is one big jumble of not very good. Q and Pickett have no decent backup somehow so I guess they can be bad and it doesn't matter. Dante now doesn't have a reasonable backup either but from what we know that was a bad break. Ewing has just brought in so many questionable guys. The one thing I actually give him credit for is his recruiting if that gives you any idea of where I am at this point of the experiment. He is horrible at roster construction and management in addition to everything else. My original post was more directed at the Ewing army that complains when we lose that it's tired legs and that everyone Ewing brings in a hidden gem. Nothing is ever Ewing's fault. The same people that are defending him playing the normal rotation to the final buzzer are the same one that think he's a good coach. Were they worried that their guy would blow a 20 point lead again? Do they think a good coach constantly blows the big leads that Ewing lead teams have? We are now at the point of the Ewing tenure where just not finishing last in the Big East is worthy of praise. How is this real life that everyone on this board isn't ready to be done with this? Unfortunately (RIP) we don't have the huge shadow on the program anymore that was holding us down. At least I hope not. I'm just at the point now where I am not even mad at the leader anymore. I am just fed up with the followers that refuse to get their head out of the sand and admit that there is a problem. If I had to do it all over again I would have put my original comment in one of the older threads.
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