mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 28, 2020 23:52:01 GMT -5
I am surprised our poor clock management at the end of the game isn’t getting more attention. We were down 67-64, the shot clock was 38 and Allen fouls? This is unacceptable. 8 seconds is more than enough to get a shot up, plus Butler isn’t going to wait to 8 seconds to shoot. If it’s 67-64, and you get a stop, you get a chance to shoot a 3 to tie. If it’s 67-64 and you foul, unless you get massively lucky and the other guy misses both, then it’s 69-64 or 68-64 and you then need to score twice, still rushing a shot, to catch up. I realize this is only one small aspect of the game, but it falls on coaching, and Ewing failed. Unless Allen went rogue. I disagree. You foul to extend the game and hope they miss free throws. If you allow Butler to take a shot even with 10-15 seconds left on the clock and they make it, or draw the foul, game is all but over. Sometimes even with the best of defense, good offense wins out. If you foul while in the 1-and-1, the foul shooter has to make both shots to score 2 points, but even if they do, you try to get a quick 3 and foul again on the next possession down 2 with the shooter again needing to make both free throws. If they miss one, quick 2 or 3, rinse, repeat.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 28, 2020 23:54:06 GMT -5
What a disaster of a second half that was. Team likely sealed its fate tonight with that performance. A lot to talk about, and much like the tale of two halves, both good and bad.
Thought Q and George gave us a huge shot in the arm when they came in after the starters came out of the gates ineffective and lackadaisical. Given how Pickett played all night, thought George at least deserved a couple more spot minutes with the way he played in the first half. Q definitely needed to be on the floor more than he was tonight. Q attacked the glass, made strong post moves TOWARDS the basket and never backed down against the Butler front line.
I thought Jagan was a warrior tonight. Countless times he was asked to dig deep and play against bigger bodies like Nze, Tucker and Baldwin. He never gave up. It was his miscue, I believe, that left McDermott open for the winning 3. But I'm going to put more blame on the overhelping that our staff is unable to correct rather than Jagan's effort tonight. I thought Blair had a solid game on both ends. Allen was a beast in the first half; it was the first time the offense had looked like the back half of the OOC schedule in weeks. Butler adjusted in the second half, took Allen away, and made Mac and Yurt prove they could beat them. They couldn't.
The trio of Mac, Yurt and Pickett owe the rest of the team a huge apology. Mac's defense was abysmal early. Going under screens while chasing McDermott, overhelping on known shooters all night. Had a couple of very selfish plays where he looked off open people. Blair was wide open for a layup in transition late in the game and he ignored him. On a night where he shot the way he did, he has to look to get others more involved.
Speaking of getting others involved... Yurt went totally black hole on us tonight. If it went into the post, you knew you weren't getting it back. The vast array of fadeaway hook shots, turnaround fadeaway baseline jumpers, missed bunnies (couldn't even finish over Baldwin at the rim in transition), etc... that may have been the weakest 14 and 13 I've ever seen. Couple that with some atrocious defense (out of position on numerous plays, generally no contests at the rim), I'm honestly not certain how he got to 13 rebounds. He was boxed out easily by the Butler bigs. You could tell a big difference when Q went to go attack the glass vs. Yurt. Q would go after it. Yurt repeatedly tried to sidestep people to maybe get a finger on the ball. I'm just tired of the softness/laziness the last 2 years (who could forget Ewing chewing the hell out of him for not running back on D early in the game) and count me as one who is excited to see Wahab's ferocity on both ends for 25-30 minutes next year.
For having had 6 days rest, Pickett looked like he was playing his 3rd game in 3 days tonight. Aside from an early block at the rim, he was a liability on both ends of the floor all night. George literally did more good by just not screwing up out there. If he wasn't ill, that was easily his worst game and effort as a Hoya. The potential train has officially left the building.
Staff... honestly, mixed reviews tonight. I did like that they tried to confuse Butler with some different looks early. We showed a 3-2 zone early with Q and George which confused Butler and then followed it up with another initial zone look that morphed into man on the next possession. The different looks coupled with Baldwin's early foul trouble really caused a lot of the early turnovers. I did like coming out of a late timeout in zone to catch Butler off guard and a different timeout to press with Yurt up top to force a TO. The imagination came about 20 games too late, though.
The big downfall for Ewing though was his personnel management and inability to get through to his team that you don't leave McDermott. After Butler had made their early run by the 17 min mark of the second half, there was absolutely 0 reason to leave Yurt (3 fouls and getting killed on both ends) in there with Q playing as well as he was. He did, Yurt continued to struggle on both ends, and that 5 point lead quickly became a 5 point deficit. And again, we have to question if we're actually utilizing a scouting report to plan for opponents. We KNEW coming into this game Butler had 2 shooters to respect: McDermott and Tucker. How he could continue to allow his guys to overhelp off McDermott instead of challenging Baldwin (who was really kept under wraps all night) to finish at the rim is beyond me. Critical coaching mistakes in a game decided by a possession or two.
And speaking of critical mistakes in a close game, holy hell refs. Blatant missed goaltend at the end for Mac. A couple absolute bail outs for both Tucker and Baldwin who lost balls in traffic and somehow got calls to go their way. Allen getting pushed into the inbounder by a Butler guy and being whistled for a delay of game. Mosely's and-1 waved off at the end which could have put some serious game pressure on Butler in the final seconds. Mike Stephens, Ron Groover and Joe Lindsay made an absolute mockery of their profession tonight and I am hoping Patrick addresses it in the post-game presser. That CANNOT happen at home.
Our role players stepped up big tonight. It's time for our supposed stars/leaders to follow suit, because they are flat-out letting this team down right now and the season is getting away from us because of it.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 28, 2020 23:54:12 GMT -5
Allen also made a very lazy one handed pass to Yurt late that resulted in a critical turnover...AND he failed to switch off onto McDermott when Moseley clearly called/pointed for him to switch and thus the final game deciding 3 from an open McD...these kind of mistakes (stepping out of bounds on our last possession) really determine the outcome of games...I will say that Allen played pretty well otherwise...Yurt, Mac and especially Pickett killed us... To be fair, Mosely called the switch with Allen very close to Baldwin and with his back to McD. That gives McD too much time. Mosely had to cover. But, really, someone had to be like bubble gum stuck to McD not looking at the rest of the court other than at McD's face. Pat outcoached...
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 28, 2020 23:55:32 GMT -5
I am surprised our poor clock management at the end of the game isn’t getting more attention. We were down 67-64, the shot clock was 38 and Allen fouls? This is unacceptable. 8 seconds is more than enough to get a shot up, plus Butler isn’t going to wait to 8 seconds to shoot. If it’s 67-64, and you get a stop, you get a chance to shoot a 3 to tie. If it’s 67-64 and you foul, unless you get massively lucky and the other guy misses both, then it’s 69-64 or 68-64 and you then need to score twice, still rushing a shot, to catch up. I realize this is only one small aspect of the game, but it falls on coaching, and Ewing failed. Unless Allen went rogue. I disagree. You foul to extend the game and hope they miss free throws. If you allow Butler to take a shot even with 10-15 seconds left on the clock and they make it, or draw the foul, game is all but over. Sometimes even with the best of defense, good offense wins out. If you foul while in the 1-and-1, the foul shooter has to make both shots to score 2 points, but even if they do, you try to get a quick 3 and foul again on the next possession down 2 with the shooter again needing to make both free throws. If they miss one, quick 2 or 3, rinse, repeat. Not to say there weren’t other coaching mistakes made cause there certainly were but this decision I thought was valid.
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Post by centercourt400s on Jan 28, 2020 23:56:23 GMT -5
The zero margin for error was exceeded tonight by Pickett with zero points and by Yurtseven shooting 4-14.
Also the players had every chance to make clutch plays and could not do it. Aside from Blair's late 3s everyone failed when they had a chance to turn the game.
Ewing going to a zone was the best coaching move of the night and it should have been a huge moment. Didnt matter though because the players couldn't get points when needed.
Frustrating
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 29, 2020 0:11:14 GMT -5
What a disaster of a second half that was. Team likely sealed its fate tonight with that performance. A lot to talk about, and much like the tale of two halves, both good and bad. Thought Q and George gave us a huge shot in the arm when they came in after the starters came out of the gates ineffective and lackadaisical. Given how Pickett played all night, thought George at least deserved a couple more spot minutes with the way he played in the first half. Q definitely needed to be on the floor more than he was tonight. Q attacked the glass, made strong post moves TOWARDS the basket and never backed down against the Butler front line. I thought Jagan was a warrior tonight. Countless times he was asked to dig deep and play against bigger bodies like Nze, Tucker and Baldwin. He never gave up. It was his miscue, I believe, that left McDermott open for the winning 3. But I'm going to put more blame on the overhelping that our staff is unable to correct rather than Jagan's effort tonight. I thought Blair had a solid game on both ends. Allen was a beast in the first half; it was the first time the offense had looked like the back half of the OOC schedule in weeks. Butler adjusted in the second half, took Allen away, and made Mac and Yurt prove they could beat them. They couldn't. The trio of Mac, Yurt and Pickett owe the rest of the team a huge apology. Mac's defense was abysmal early. Going under screens while chasing McDermott, overhelping on known shooters all night. Had a couple of very selfish plays where he looked off open people. Blair was wide open for a layup in transition late in the game and he ignored him. On a night where he shot the way he did, he has to look to get others more involved. Speaking of getting others involved... Yurt went totally black hole on us tonight. If it went into the post, you knew you weren't getting it back. The vast array of fadeaway hook shots, turnaround fadeaway baseline jumpers, missed bunnies (couldn't even finish over Baldwin at the rim in transition), etc... that may have been the weakest 14 and 13 I've ever seen. Couple that with some atrocious defense (out of position on numerous plays, generally no contests at the rim), I'm honestly not certain how he got to 13 rebounds. He was boxed out easily by the Butler bigs. You could tell a big difference when Q went to go attack the glass vs. Yurt. Q would go after it. Yurt repeatedly tried to sidestep people to maybe get a finger on the ball. I'm just tired of the softness/laziness the last 2 years (who could forget Ewing chewing the hell out of him for not running back on D early in the game) and count me as one who is excited to see Wahab's ferocity on both ends for 25-30 minutes next year. For having had 6 days rest, Pickett looked like he was playing his 3rd game in 3 days tonight. Aside from an early block at the rim, he was a liability on both ends of the floor all night. George literally did more good by just not screwing up out there. If he wasn't ill, that was easily his worst game and effort as a Hoya. The potential train has officially left the building. Staff... honestly, mixed reviews tonight. I did like that they tried to confuse Butler with some different looks early. We showed a 3-2 zone early with Q and George which confused Butler and then followed it up with another initial zone look that morphed into man on the next possession. The different looks coupled with Baldwin's early foul trouble really caused a lot of the early turnovers. I did like coming out of a late timeout in zone to catch Butler off guard and a different timeout to press with Yurt up top to force a TO. The imagination came about 20 games too late, though. The big downfall for Ewing though was his personnel management and inability to get through to his team that you don't leave McDermott. After Butler had made their early run by the 17 min mark of the second half, there was absolutely 0 reason to leave Yurt (3 fouls and getting killed on both ends) in there with Q playing as well as he was. He did, Yurt continued to struggle on both ends, and that 5 point lead quickly became a 5 point deficit. And again, we have to question if we're actually utilizing a scouting report to plan for opponents. We KNEW coming into this game Butler had 2 shooters to respect: McDermott and Tucker. How he could continue to allow his guys to overhelp off McDermott instead of challenging Baldwin (who was really kept under wraps all night) to finish at the rim is beyond me. Critical coaching mistakes in a game decided by a possession or two. And speaking of critical mistakes in a close game, holy hell refs. Blatant missed goaltend at the end for Mac. A couple absolute bail outs for both Tucker and Baldwin who lost balls in traffic and somehow got calls to go their way. Allen getting pushed into the inbounder by a Butler guy and being whistled for a delay of game. Mosely's and-1 waved off at the end which could have put some serious game pressure on Butler in the final seconds. Mike Stephens, Ron Groover and Joe Lindsay made an absolute mockery of their profession tonight and I am hoping Patrick addresses it in the post-game presser. That CANNOT happen at home. Our role players stepped up big tonight. It's time for our supposed stars/leaders to follow suit, because they are flat-out letting this team down right now and the season is getting away from us because of it. I agree with most of this. I would have liked to see Ewing stick with Q longer in the second half. The atrocious missed calls noted above were obvious. The only stretch (the second half of the first Half) where the team hit on all cylinders was when they played solid defense. All that said, the simple answer is you can’t win a big east game going 7 - 33 in the second half. Frustrating loss.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jan 29, 2020 0:12:28 GMT -5
The zero margin for error was exceeded tonight by Pickett with zero points and by Yurtseven shooting 4-14. Also the players had every chance to make clutch plays and could not do it. Aside from Blair's late 3s everyone failed when they had a chance to turn the game. Ewing going to a zone was the best coaching move of the night and it should have been a huge moment. Didnt matter though because the players couldn't get points when needed. Frustrating Yes congratulations Patrick it took you 21 games to figure out how to effectively use a zone to mix things up. Kudos...
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mdtd on Jan 29, 2020 0:20:08 GMT -5
The second half was atrocious, terrible, awful and every other negative word you could use. The first half was perfect, it was well-executed and the Hoyas were able to get out and run. Not many shooters were left open, and if they were They for the most part missed. Then the second half came along. Butler came out and scored just about every time down and the Hoyas didn't. The Hoyas scored 21 points in the half. It felt like Sean McDermott in the second half outscored our entire team. Missed layups, missed putbacks, bad rotations, lack of communication on defense, all of it went wrong. McDermott was left open four or five straight times and it was inexcusable. Our defense is atrocious. There needs to be a defensive-minded assistant added immediately. No ifs and or buts at this point. The defense stinks. And Yurtseven needs to attack the rim every once in a while. I mean the fadeaway r hook shots work when the defender has to fear you attacking. Multiple times he had a lane to attack and took a jumper or a fadeaway. Make life easier for yourself. And onto the worst player tonight, Jamorko Pickett. This was his worst game of the season and it wasn't even close. He played 20 minutes and scored 0 points on 6 shots. He left McDermott open about 7 times this game and got into early foul trouble. His rebounding seemed to have improved, but tonight it was nowhere to be seen. Mosely was the only player rebounding when Pickett was in. He was horrible. He needs to step it up in the next two and needs to learn that he can't leave good shooters open.
I haven't read this thread (I might not even look back to relive that awful second half) but I expect some people blaming officials for why we lost. When your team leaves deadly shooters open and scored 21 points in a half, you deserve to lose. Sure they didn't help by any means and the game may have changed, but they weren't the reason whatsoever. You can't blame them for the loss.
This was about as close to a must-win as it could have been, especially with a much better spot and an excellent first half and the team blew it. The next two are must-wins. You had an excellent opportunity for a bounce back and you blew it. The first half was exactly how this game could've went and the second half was exactly how this game could go wrong.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Jan 29, 2020 0:21:34 GMT -5
I am surprised our poor clock management at the end of the game isn’t getting more attention. We were down 67-64, the shot clock was 38 and Allen fouls? This is unacceptable. 8 seconds is more than enough to get a shot up, plus Butler isn’t going to wait to 8 seconds to shoot. If it’s 67-64, and you get a stop, you get a chance to shoot a 3 to tie. If it’s 67-64 and you foul, unless you get massively lucky and the other guy misses both, then it’s 69-64 or 68-64 and you then need to score twice, still rushing a shot, to catch up. I realize this is only one small aspect of the game, but it falls on coaching, and Ewing failed. Unless Allen went rogue. I disagree. I 100% agree with fouling there and extending the game. At a minimum, it is a debatable point/strategy.
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s4hoyas
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Post by s4hoyas on Jan 29, 2020 0:23:53 GMT -5
Pickett 0 for 7, Yurt 4 for 14 and McClung 4 for 16...combination of forced/impatient offensive possessions and just shooting poorly...
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Jan 29, 2020 0:28:05 GMT -5
I am surprised our poor clock management at the end of the game isn’t getting more attention. We were down 67-64, the shot clock was 38 and Allen fouls? This is unacceptable. 8 seconds is more than enough to get a shot up, plus Butler isn’t going to wait to 8 seconds to shoot. If it’s 67-64, and you get a stop, you get a chance to shoot a 3 to tie. If it’s 67-64 and you foul, unless you get massively lucky and the other guy misses both, then it’s 69-64 or 68-64 and you then need to score twice, still rushing a shot, to catch up. I realize this is only one small aspect of the game, but it falls on coaching, and Ewing failed. Unless Allen went rogue. I disagree. I 100% agree with fouling there and extending the game. At a minimum, it is a debatable point/strategy. And Butler was shooting 1 and 1 for the next three fouls. They missed the last two front ends. If Gtown makes baskets they have a chance to tie/win.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 29, 2020 0:35:40 GMT -5
I am surprised our poor clock management at the end of the game isn’t getting more attention. We were down 67-64, the shot clock was 38 and Allen fouls? This is unacceptable. 8 seconds is more than enough to get a shot up, plus Butler isn’t going to wait to 8 seconds to shoot. If it’s 67-64, and you get a stop, you get a chance to shoot a 3 to tie. If it’s 67-64 and you foul, unless you get massively lucky and the other guy misses both, then it’s 69-64 or 68-64 and you then need to score twice, still rushing a shot, to catch up. I realize this is only one small aspect of the game, but it falls on coaching, and Ewing failed. Unless Allen went rogue. I disagree. I 100% agree with fouling there and extending the game. At a minimum, it is a debatable point/strategy. If it were me, I would've played it out. That being said, you're also banking on the following: Ewing to be smart enough to design a play where he can get a good 3 point shot off in ~10 seconds against an opponent who is probably going to be trying to foul. This exact scenario played out at the end of the Marquette game, and we walked the ball up with 10 seconds to go to get fouled. Never got a 3 off. Compare that to Friday night's game where Wojo, smartly knowing Butler would double Howard to quickly foul before his 3, instead called McEwen's number and he got off the tying 3 to force OT. I think if I had more faith in our ability to execute in end game situations (and, get a stop in a big moment), it would have been a much easier decision to play it out. I don't though, and that's why I could see the decision being tougher than it should be.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 29, 2020 6:46:15 GMT -5
Absolutely terrible loss. You build a double digit halftime lead, a season changing win in sight, and you come out for the second half with the intensity of an october practice. The horrendous perimeter defense, the inability to comprehend how to defend a high ball screen by two seniors leaving their only shooter wide open...again. Wahab, again playing great in a small amount of minutes, gets 5 second half minutes while Pickett contributes nothing and plays 14 minutes in the second half. The team shot 7-33 in the second half with yurt7, mac and pickett combining for a staggering 2-20. This team has no offensive identity when opposing teams slow the pace and make them work for baskets. 0-7 when scoring under 70 points this year.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 29, 2020 6:53:29 GMT -5
Morning after thoughts from Reagan DCA:
I think there were a lot of fatigue plays in the second half, the most glaringly obvious was the weak one hand entry pass from Allen to a Yurtseven that was easily picked off. Not only was Yurtseven nowhere near the lane, he was out at the 3 point line. That had zero chance of success at a crucial point in the game.
Yurtseven is way too predictable on offense. His defender knows he is going to roll to a fade-away virtually every time. They don’t have to hedge against a drop step, all they have to do is body him closely enough to push him off balance and throw his shot off.
Pickett continues to rush shots when he doesn’t need to. He rarely hits shots when his footwork is off.
At some point, I don’t know, after 3 or 4 wide open threes by McDermott maybe, the realization should be obvious that this is not a night where help and rotation is the right idea. Baldwin’s postgame comments are a great indication that teams know this is a major weakness and are looking to exploit it.
Mac suffered from being too frenzied last night. He made some great decisions (the entry pass to Yurtseven for an easy hoop was one) and some head scratching ones.
We are finding out that it is all too easy for opponents to limit Allen’s distributor role. Need to work on some plan Bs.
Honestly the second half would have been a good time to go big with Q at the 5 and Yurtseven at the 4.
All that said, we had opportunities to win late in the game that were fumbled (the lazy Allen pass) or taken away (a string of questionable ref calls including the non goaltend and the defensive foul in the lane where a ref with no view of the play called a foul when no Hoya slapped anything but ball). No excuse for the team putting themselves in that situation though.
Ewing called a quick timeout early in the game when he didn’t like what he saw on defense. One after Butler’s first 2 buckets in the second half might have helped.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 29, 2020 7:18:25 GMT -5
Oh and I’m sorry but last night’s crowd was lame.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 29, 2020 7:35:34 GMT -5
2003 or anyone with access, is there a site that shows from where we took our shots last night? Shot selection continues to be a problem.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Jan 29, 2020 7:52:43 GMT -5
Bad loss. Let's torch Pickett, McClung and Yurtseven. Allen implodes in a critical stretch with a lazy pass and failure to switch leaving a wide open shooter to ice the game. Let's even toss in a little shot or two at the defecting players. Then let's stop making excuses. Players come and go, but the problems never seem to change. It's another season of flashes of positive followed by a retreat to the same old mistakes--loss of focus, undisciplined play. It's getting hard to remember when this team could play even passable defense.
Consistently inconsistent--that's the only way to describe the basketball program. Yurtseven shines, then disappears. Pickett has several steady games, then a complete meltdown. McClung flashes as a floor leader with great potential to distribute and then reverts to hunting his shots. It's not limited to players--obviously. Ewing and his staff flash moments of quality and then simply seem incapable of helping to settle a team down when the meltdowns are occurring. Consistently inconsistent---and very tiring.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 29, 2020 7:52:56 GMT -5
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 29, 2020 8:04:54 GMT -5
This was a tough one because I thought we did a lot very well on both ends....until we didn't.
On D, that was maybe the best I've seen us play the high PNR. No dumb fouls by Yurt on the hedge, the hedge did slow the guards from attacking, and our rotations were very good with Yurt always able to hustle back in time into the post. We added the blitz to our PNR repertoire and it worked well when we did (maybe we will see more of it?). The blitz/double almost won us the game at the end. But, geez, the overhelp off their one shooter was inexcusable. And, then, naturally, it's a PNR set that burns us at the very end. It was obviously (and understandably) supposed to be a switch, given that it was a guard-guard set instead of a big up there. And look, that's why teams don't change up their coverages....because things like that happen. But....it couldn't happen there.
On O, I largely thought we got looks we wanted. Not all the time of course, but largely.
The margin for error is just so, so, so thin. And it's even thinner against good teams. Well, we are playing nothing but good (mixed with very good, like last night) teams now.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 29, 2020 8:06:09 GMT -5
our defense was fine, but we cannot stop scoring. Butler is a good team- their shooters are going to get looks eventually. But we win if we have any offense in the second half.
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