Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2005 13:32:53 GMT -5
Anyone have access to any other Big East boards? Any reaction to their mirror opponents? What about any Michigan, Duke, OU or Ill boards and talk of playing us?
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
|
Post by MCIGuy on Jul 7, 2005 13:33:23 GMT -5
Look, way, we can complain about the schedule we have and the logic its based on or we can get pumped for a really exciting season with a tough OOC and fairly easy BE schedule. I am choosing to do the latter. Like it or not III clearly believes in RPI. Amen, brother. By the way didn't Illinois lose three of its starters? I'm not scared of the team, even if the Hoyas are playing on the road.
|
|
GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
|
Post by GUHoya07 on Jul 7, 2005 13:35:49 GMT -5
It was bad, but not much can be worse than that loss at the Garden, and then looking at the Big East standings and seeing St. John's 1 Big East win. Well, the difference is no one saw the St. John's game. But the game against Duke was not only national, it was also the only game on the schedule for CBS at that time slot. Usually CBS these days has regional coverage which means anywhere from two to three games will be broadcast by them simultaneously in different parts of the country. So if a game is a blowout the network can always pull one game off many markets and replace it with a more competitive game they are airing. But with the Duke-Gtown disaster it was the only game CBS had for its early Saturday schedule that particularly day. So they had to stick with it the entire way which I'm sure was about as embarrassing to them as it was to Hoya fans. I can only imagine CBS sposrts executives deciding that day that the Hoyas were not to be put back on their network until there was evidence that the program was relevant and competitive again. Still, for me losing to the #1 team in the country can never ever ever be nearly as embarrassing as losing to a scandal destroyed team without enough scholarship players to complete the starting 5 and winless in the Big East. I don't care if they played it in a closed gym and no one saw it but the coaches and teams, it would still be more embarrassing. I guess its good that we dont play SJU at the Garden this year, that place has been a death trap against them, ahhhhhhhh!!!
|
|
|
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 7, 2005 13:41:13 GMT -5
Anyone have access to any other Big East boards? Any reaction to their mirror opponents? What about any Michigan, Duke, OU or Ill boards and talk of playing us? I do not have access to the OU board nor would I ever have anything to do with anything related to Norman (parents and most of extended family are Ok State grads), but people do know about the game. I got about it today from my dentist because I was wearing a GU t-shirt. And also it was mentioned a couple of times on local sports talk radio when they stopped talking about OU Football, OSU Football, University of Tulsa Football, Arena League Football, and High School Football (football is more of the chief interest here).
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Jul 7, 2005 14:04:52 GMT -5
With your logic, you'd then argue that a 14-2 MEAC team is better than a 10-6 BE team since wins are the only thing that matters, not RPI which helps put a scale on quality of opponent.[/quote]
No, with my logic, the 10 BE wins would easily outweigh the 14 MEAC wins. However, I would give neither the BE team nor the MEAC team *any* credit for the games that they lost. The only way a loss should ever effect you is in a negative way; a loss to a top team should have very little negative effect, while a loss to a poor team (i.e. Oral Roberts or worse) really hurts.
Here is how I would break it down:
Tough OOC games: a lot to gain and very little to lose. Worst case scenario, you lose to a tough team, which no one should hold too much against you. Best case scenario, you beat an elite team, which is a huge plus.
Easy OOC games: very little to gain and a lot to lose. If you win-- so what, but at least you get a W; if you lose, you are a laughingstock.
My point is not to promote games against easy opponents. For the reasons stated above, tough OOC games make sense, IF you have a decent chance to win these games.
However, the way that it works now is that teams are basically getting credit from the RPI just for having UConn or Arizona on their schedule, win or lose. That is crap (and when I say "crap," imagine much more inflection and anger than post-'03-WVU Esh, b/c that is how I mean it).
Scheduling should be a gamble. Do you schedule a bunch of cupcakes to ensure no bad losses? Or do you get a loaded schedule and risk starting out in the hole after getting your face knocked in? Each team must decide how to balance that equation. What is happening now is that teams are getting credit just for taking a risk. To me, that goes against the essence of sports.
BAN THE RPI! (My second favorite "ban" movement, next to that of my former coach Buddy Burkhead's movement to Ban the Little League).
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
|
Post by MCIGuy on Jul 7, 2005 14:11:15 GMT -5
John Thompson!!! I didn't think you had enough time to step away from your radio show to post here. Glad to have you aboard! ;D
|
|
|
Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Jul 7, 2005 15:28:27 GMT -5
Like it or not, we all have to live with the current formula known as the RPI. Does anyone know where I can find information about what RPI number is the breaking point between a loss being "more beneficial" than a win?
I'm really curious about this in order to see, based on last years RPI's, which teams we have scheduled this season who can only help our RPI whether we win or lose . . .
|
|
HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
|
Post by HOYAPLAYA on Jul 7, 2005 15:40:05 GMT -5
With your logic, you'd then argue that a 14-2 MEAC team is better than a 10-6 BE team since wins are the only thing that matters, not RPI which helps put a scale on quality of opponent. No, with my logic, the 10 BE wins would easily outweigh the 14 MEAC wins. However, I would give neither the BE team nor the MEAC team *any* credit for the games that they lost. The only way a loss should ever effect you is in a negative way; a loss to a top team should have very little negative effect, while a loss to a poor team (i.e. Oral Roberts or worse) really hurts. Here is how I would break it down: Tough OOC games: a lot to gain and very little to lose. Worst case scenario, you lose to a tough team, which no one should hold too much against you. Best case scenario, you beat an elite team, which is a huge plus. Easy OOC games: very little to gain and a lot to lose. If you win-- so what, but at least you get a W; if you lose, you are a laughingstock. My point is not to promote games against easy opponents. For the reasons stated above, tough OOC games make sense, IF you have a decent chance to win these games. However, the way that it works now is that teams are basically getting credit from the RPI just for having UConn or Arizona on their schedule, win or lose. That is crap (and when I say "crap," imagine much more inflection and anger than post-'03-WVU Esh, b/c that is how I mean it). Scheduling should be a gamble. Do you schedule a bunch of cupcakes to ensure no bad losses? Or do you get a loaded schedule and risk starting out in the hole after getting your face knocked in? Each team must decide how to balance that equation. What is happening now is that teams are getting credit just for taking a risk. To me, that goes against the essence of sports. BAN THE RPI! (My second favorite "ban" movement, next to that of my former coach Buddy Burkhead's movement to Ban the Little League). [/quote] I'm not sure I've ever agreed with a post more than this one. I haven't posted in months as I've just been checking in to read up every once in a while, but this argument makes so much sense that I can't even understand why we even have to have this discussion. The RPI is a joke and if the powers that be can't see that, then NCAA basketball needs new leadership.
|
|
|
Post by vhorsley4614 on Jul 7, 2005 15:54:50 GMT -5
Great news! This is the scheduling that we really need.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,132
|
Post by RBHoya on Jul 8, 2005 0:22:45 GMT -5
I'm really excited to play Duke at home, as I think its a great chance for us to get national exposure, and potentially a big win.
The only thing that saddens me about it is that it's probably going to be over winter break, meaning that most of the student body wont be in the house. Plus, you know there'll be a ton of Duke fans, and the game will probably be on national tv.... A casual observor will probably not be too impressed when they tune in, when Duke's support is as much as the Hoya's. I also think that it having the student fans packing MCI and cheer their heads off would be helpful to the team, yet probably won't happen.
I'll try to figure out some way to get down to MCI from NJ for the game, but its sad that the student section will likely be so lonely.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Jul 8, 2005 2:26:23 GMT -5
I'm really excited to play Duke at home, as I think its a great chance for us to get national exposure, and potentially a big win. The only thing that saddens me about it is that it's probably going to be over winter break, meaning that most of the student body wont be in the house. Plus, you know there'll be a ton of Duke fans, and the game will probably be on national tv.... A casual observor will probably not be too impressed when they tune in, when Duke's support is as much as the Hoya's. I also think that it having the student fans packing MCI and cheer their heads off would be helpful to the team, yet probably won't happen. I'll try to figure out some way to get down to MCI from NJ for the game, but its sad that the student section will likely be so lonely. When we played Duke 2 years ago, it was late January and all the students were back. You can play an OOC game during conference play.
|
|
|
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 8, 2005 3:11:11 GMT -5
This just in - JTIII has also decided to beef up the OOC by playing the following games:
1976 Indiana Hoosiers at Indiana - This game will not be covered by ESPN or any of the networks surprisingly - a win should be hard to come by considering the team went an undefeated 32-0.
1972 UCLA Bruins - Also should be hard to beat at Polly - this one might be picked up by FSN.
1990 UNLV - This game will be played at MCI, but it will be played on January 2nd before any students can come to see us get pac-manned by Granmama and Co.
1996 Kentucky Wildcats - This one should be a tough road match up as the Hoyas go back into Rupp Arena to face Antoine Walker, Tony Delk, Walter McCarty, Derek Anderson and Ron Mercer
We have also scheduled St. Mary's School for the Blind, Deaf, Short, and Not So Athletically Gifted as our home opener.
We will be playing the Argentine National Team in McDonough for an exhibition game.
|
|
JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
Posts: 1,867
|
Post by JimmyHoya on Jul 8, 2005 8:04:41 GMT -5
Hahahaha. Great post. I admit it. This schedule has gone from solid to difficult to overwhelming to me.
|
|
|
Post by theEDGEfactor on Jul 8, 2005 10:52:42 GMT -5
Well, as the saying goes- Dont be sorry for what you asked for, because it may come true- and last year and 2 years ago everyone was asking to get better competition so it could rise our RPI, now we have the competition, now what will GTOWN do with it?
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 8, 2005 11:00:44 GMT -5
Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...Win the whole f***ing thing.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,132
|
Post by RBHoya on Jul 8, 2005 13:49:00 GMT -5
When we played Duke 2 years ago, it was late January and all the students were back. You can play an OOC game during conference play. I'd love it if that were the case. It worked really well for 'Nova last year when they played Kansas during the middle of their Big East schedule and just tore them apart. A good portion of the undrgrads and a great deal of alums packed the stadium that day for the home team and it was a huge win for them. A Duke game during the conference schedule would be perfect. I think all of the students would turn out, especially if we're successful early in the season. It could really be great for our program, IF the game is in fact played when everyone is back on campus rather than over the break.
|
|
GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
|
Post by GUHoya07 on Jul 8, 2005 14:06:07 GMT -5
I'm really excited to play Duke at home, as I think its a great chance for us to get national exposure, and potentially a big win. The only thing that saddens me about it is that it's probably going to be over winter break, meaning that most of the student body wont be in the house. Plus, you know there'll be a ton of Duke fans, and the game will probably be on national tv.... A casual observor will probably not be too impressed when they tune in, when Duke's support is as much as the Hoya's. I also think that it having the student fans packing MCI and cheer their heads off would be helpful to the team, yet probably won't happen. I'll try to figure out some way to get down to MCI from NJ for the game, but its sad that the student section will likely be so lonely. I expect it to be during the semester with all the students on campus like 2 years ago, just a different final result.
|
|
GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
|
Post by GUHoya07 on Jul 8, 2005 14:10:39 GMT -5
When we played Duke 2 years ago, it was late January and all the students were back. You can play an OOC game during conference play. I'd love it if that were the case. It worked really well for 'Nova last year when they played Kansas during the middle of their Big East schedule and just tore them apart. A good portion of the undrgrads and a great deal of alums packed the stadium that day for the home team and it was a huge win for them. A Duke game during the conference schedule would be perfect. I think all of the students would turn out, especially if we're successful early in the season. It could really be great for our program, IF the game is in fact played when everyone is back on campus rather than over the break. All 6,000+!!! wow, that would be awesome, hahaha. Remember RB, this would be the second go around at home vs. Duke for all the Juniors and Seniors. The student section was packed and rowdy for that game, but after we lost the lead for good 10 minutes in or so and got blown out it got a little quiet.
|
|
FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
|
Post by FLHoya on Jul 8, 2005 17:10:56 GMT -5
Okay, since we're on the subject of student attendance and Duke games here, let me play out a scenario that came up in the other thread and that people are alluding to here:
Let's say for the sake of argument that the Duke game is on the first full weekend in January (Jan. 7-8, 2006).
People seem to be implying this would be some kind of disaster because all of the Georgetown students would still be on Winter Break and thus the student section at MCI would be anywhere from less-than-full to crawling with tumbleweed.
I don't think that has to come to pass. In fact, it could probably be avoided altogether with a little effort.
Two examples:
1. Last season, Georgetown played (#10) UCONN at the MCI Center on January 8--the first Saturday after New Year's Day. Spring Semester classes didn't start until the following Wednesday January 12.
This is the same situation our hypothetical Duke game would fit into. It'd be on January 7 or 8--the first Sat/Sun after New Year's Day. Spring Semester Classes start that Wednesday, January 11.
People complained A LOT on this board last year about the Athletic Dept/BE/television networks "screwing over" students in some way by scheduling that UCONN game on that date. SURELY the student section would be empty b/c of X-Mas break.
I was at the UCONN game and here's what I wrote in the recap about the student attendance:
For a vacation game, I'd say the "student" turnout was fairly impressive. A particularly late arriving "student" crowd, I was worried about 5 minutes before the game. Filled the bottom section, a few rows above that. True, some were friends of GU students, some are graduate students at other D.C. universities and could care less about their Top 25 basketball team. And some GU "students" today seemed to have blue hair and were NOT CAHoya, so all in all a more "mature" GU student crowd today. Well, with the exception of the waaaaaay wacked out proportion of spilled beer today.
And keep in mind, that attendance was achieved without any kind of promotion by Hoya Blue or any real organized effort to get students to come back for the game. Everybody who came did so on their own volition and b/c they wanted to be there and found out how to make it happen on their own. And for that reason, I'd say that was my favorite student section of the entire season--because you knew everyone there really cared and was into being there. Great MCI Center atmosphere too with 11,363 total fans there.
Of course, if there IS a promotion, then you get better results like:
2. On December 20, 2001, Georgetown played (#5) Virginia at the MCI Center. This was a similar situation where folks could have rightly complained that the scheduling for the game (which DID have a TV angle to it--TBS televised the game in prime time) was unfair to students. In fact, December 20 was the absolute dead-last day of exams--basically make-up exams and obscure sciences territory here. And the game was at 8:00pm at night, so if you stayed for the game you weren't getting out of DC until the 21st, when the University was in fact closed.
And yet, I was at that game and the student section was...FULL. Not partially full, not mostly full...FULL. Of course it was on the opposite side of the arena and you stared into a wall of Virginia fans, but the point remains. On the night after the final day of exams when there's never ANYBODY at GU, we had a full student section at a game.
Most of that was due to a good promotional effort by Hoya Blue and the Athletic Department. On the wall in my apartment just to the right of me is the poster from that game. Says "STAY FOR UVA" on it along with some logos, etc. On the bottom it has the line "If you can't be there, make sure you give your ticket to a student who can."
And kind of like that UConn crowd I described above, this was a more motley crew of GU fans. Majority by far were undergrads, but some grad students, some local friends, some siblings of GU students...the point was we had a great atmosphere for a good game (with an awful result)...because Hoya Blue got creative.
No reason the same couldn't be done if you get an unfavorable Duke game date. After all, two years ago, Hoya Blue's only real promotional effort at ANYTHING during the year followed the template: "Be sure you do [BLANK] because it's the only way to ensure your tickets to the Duke game."
Good rule of thumb: there's no limit to what Hoya Blue can do with its promotions as long as they work hard enough and they're resourceful and creative about it.
|
|
|
Post by theEDGEfactor on Jul 8, 2005 18:19:24 GMT -5
Yeah I came down from Pittsburgh that game against UCONN last year and you sed the attendance was pretty high and there were a fairly good amount of gtown students, but the things was, 3/4 of the people in attendance were UCONN fans. Everywhere I looked there were UCONN fans so it wasnt really alot of gtown fans coming down, it was all of the UCONN fans coming down. And, the same will be sed for next year if the Duke game is on the first full weekend of the new year. But, gtown did come back against uconn that game so it shows we can play well even without a good turnout that game.
|
|