Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2021 12:46:39 GMT -5
To discuss this with you, first we need to know how did you measure this? What are you taking into consideration? Statistics and eye test. I don't want to get accused of trashing one of our players, so I'm not going to go into a deep back/forth on this. If you think there were worse starting PGs in the Big East last season, I'd love to know who they were. By the way, if we're debating between whether Dante Harris is the 9th, 10th, or 11th best PG in the Big East, doesn't that tell us enough of a story right there? Do you think Jared Bynum or Myles Tate had better seasons than Dante and why? Where does defense fit into your evaluation?
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,478
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 4, 2021 12:58:03 GMT -5
Statistics and eye test. I don't want to get accused of trashing one of our players, so I'm not going to go into a deep back/forth on this. If you think there were worse starting PGs in the Big East last season, I'd love to know who they were. By the way, if we're debating between whether Dante Harris is the 9th, 10th, or 11th best PG in the Big East, doesn't that tell us enough of a story right there? Do you think Jared Bynum or Myles Tate had better seasons than Dante and why? Where does defense fit into your evaluation? Aaron Thompson was Butler's starting PG, not Myles Tate, so not a relevant comparison. Dante Harris started 21 games for Georgetown, while Bynum started only 11 games for Providence - again, not a relevant comparison. Defense is part of the eye test in the evaluation, though I'm sure if I went back and looked at box scores of opposing PGs Dante Harris was guarding, I could come up with specific data showing that he's nothing special defensively. I do think he's a better defensive player than offensive player, though. Like I said earlier, if we're talking about whether the Georgetown PG is the 9th, 10th, or 11th best starter in the league - I think that's enough evidence right there that 1) he must not be very good; and 2) Georgetown is not in a good place relative to its historical position. I wish Dante well and hope he overachieves, but he's best suited to be a sparkplug off the bench, not a starting PG on a good Big East team that you're counting on for a lot of production. That's not Dante's fault, that's his coaching staff's fault.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 4, 2021 13:05:12 GMT -5
We’ve tried to land top PGs in the past (Cole Anthony, RJ Davis, etc.), but just couldn’t get it done. Lots of effort put in.
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Post by practice on Nov 4, 2021 13:32:05 GMT -5
I think it's a classless move to compare a 5'10, 140 lbs wet, projected back up, not rated freshman point guard to the starting guards of the BE. Boy o Boy what fanbase! One poster represents the whole fanbase? How dramatic! At more than 10,000 posts, you must know that the lingua franca of HoyaTalk is hyperpole followed by sweeping assumption and conjecture.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2021 13:58:14 GMT -5
Do you think Jared Bynum or Myles Tate had better seasons than Dante and why? Where does defense fit into your evaluation? Aaron Thompson was Butler's starting PG, not Myles Tate, so not a relevant comparison. Dante Harris started 21 games for Georgetown, while Bynum started only 11 games for Providence - again, not a relevant comparison. Defense is part of the eye test in the evaluation, though I'm sure if I went back and looked at box scores of opposing PGs Dante Harris was guarding, I could come up with specific data showing that he's nothing special defensively. I do think he's a better defensive player than offensive player, though. Like I said earlier, if we're talking about whether the Georgetown PG is the 9th, 10th, or 11th best starter in the league - I think that's enough evidence right there that 1) he must not be very good; and 2) Georgetown is not in a good place relative to its historical position. I wish Dante well and hope he overachieves, but he's best suited to be a sparkplug off the bench, not a starting PG on a good Big East team that you're counting on for a lot of production. That's not Dante's fault, that's his coaching staff's fault. Jared Bynum started the games he was fully healthy in. He only played 17 games total. That’s the same thing you’re saying about Thompson. Isn’t that an example of you using one set of rules for Bynum and another for Tate that are totally contradictory? Tate started more total games than Thompson (20+) and he was the starting pg for that team in 11 games. That’s almost half of their season HB. I’ll take the third paragraph as you stepping away from the ledge a bit because not only did you say he was the worst starting pg in the league, you said he was the worst starter in the conference period. Don’t you think that’s a bit of an overstatement?
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,670
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Post by seaweed on Nov 4, 2021 14:16:29 GMT -5
Please stop feeding the trolls.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Nov 4, 2021 14:48:46 GMT -5
Do you think Jared Bynum or Myles Tate had better seasons than Dante and why? Where does defense fit into your evaluation? Aaron Thompson was Butler's starting PG, not Myles Tate, so not a relevant comparison. Dante Harris started 21 games for Georgetown, while Bynum started only 11 games for Providence - again, not a relevant comparison. Defense is part of the eye test in the evaluation, though I'm sure if I went back and looked at box scores of opposing PGs Dante Harris was guarding, I could come up with specific data showing that he's nothing special defensively. I do think he's a better defensive player than offensive player, though. Like I said earlier, if we're talking about whether the Georgetown PG is the 9th, 10th, or 11th best starter in the league - I think that's enough evidence right there that 1) he must not be very good; and 2) Georgetown is not in a good place relative to its historical position. I wish Dante well and hope he overachieves, but he's best suited to be a sparkplug off the bench, not a starting PG on a good Big East team that you're counting on for a lot of production. That's not Dante's fault, that's his coaching staff's fault. It’s not often that a message board expert like yourself admits that their hyperbolic statement was wrong with a post like this. I’m not even sure you realize that’s what you’ve done here but if so, congrats on evolving.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,478
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 4, 2021 15:12:41 GMT -5
Aaron Thompson was Butler's starting PG, not Myles Tate, so not a relevant comparison. Dante Harris started 21 games for Georgetown, while Bynum started only 11 games for Providence - again, not a relevant comparison. Defense is part of the eye test in the evaluation, though I'm sure if I went back and looked at box scores of opposing PGs Dante Harris was guarding, I could come up with specific data showing that he's nothing special defensively. I do think he's a better defensive player than offensive player, though. Like I said earlier, if we're talking about whether the Georgetown PG is the 9th, 10th, or 11th best starter in the league - I think that's enough evidence right there that 1) he must not be very good; and 2) Georgetown is not in a good place relative to its historical position. I wish Dante well and hope he overachieves, but he's best suited to be a sparkplug off the bench, not a starting PG on a good Big East team that you're counting on for a lot of production. That's not Dante's fault, that's his coaching staff's fault. Jared Bynum started the games he was fully healthy in. He only played 17 games total. That’s the same thing you’re saying about Thompson. Isn’t that an example of you using one set of rules for Bynum and another for Tate that are totally contradictory? Tate started more total games than Thompson (20+) and he was the starting pg for that team in 11 games. That’s almost half of their season HB. I’ll take the third paragraph as you stepping away from the ledge a bit because not only did you say he was the worst starting pg in the league, you said he was the worst starter in the conference period. Don’t you think that’s a bit of an overstatement? I said he "might" be the worst starter in the conference last year, period. I think there's certainly an argument that can be made to that effect. You want to debate whether he was the 9th, 10th or 11th best starting PG in an 11-team league? Fine, let's have that debate, although it's kind of pointless to the bigger picture - Georgetown shouldn't be in a position to have the 9th, 10th, or 11th best starter in the league at any position. That is horrific recruiting/roster management by the coaching staff.
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justsaying
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 709
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Post by justsaying on Nov 4, 2021 15:23:02 GMT -5
Jared Bynum started the games he was fully healthy in. He only played 17 games total. That’s the same thing you’re saying about Thompson. Isn’t that an example of you using one set of rules for Bynum and another for Tate that are totally contradictory? Tate started more total games than Thompson (20+) and he was the starting pg for that team in 11 games. That’s almost half of their season HB. I’ll take the third paragraph as you stepping away from the ledge a bit because not only did you say he was the worst starting pg in the league, you said he was the worst starter in the conference period. Don’t you think that’s a bit of an overstatement? I said he "might" be the worst starter in the conference last year, period. I think there's certainly an argument that can be made to that effect. You want to debate whether he was the 9th, 10th or 11th best starting PG in an 11-team league? Fine, let's have that debate, although it's kind of pointless to the bigger picture - Georgetown shouldn't be in a position to have the 9th, 10th, or 11th best starter in the league at any position. That is horrific recruiting/roster management by the coaching staff. He delivered 1 Chip; If he deliveries another who cares about your 9th, 10th, ... etc. Just get the job done. Such mindless jiberish.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2021 15:35:19 GMT -5
Jared Bynum started the games he was fully healthy in. He only played 17 games total. That’s the same thing you’re saying about Thompson. Isn’t that an example of you using one set of rules for Bynum and another for Tate that are totally contradictory? Tate started more total games than Thompson (20+) and he was the starting pg for that team in 11 games. That’s almost half of their season HB. I’ll take the third paragraph as you stepping away from the ledge a bit because not only did you say he was the worst starting pg in the league, you said he was the worst starter in the conference period. Don’t you think that’s a bit of an overstatement? I said he "might" be the worst starter in the conference last year, period. I think there's certainly an argument that can be made to that effect. You want to debate whether he was the 9th, 10th or 11th best starting PG in an 11-team league? Fine, let's have that debate, although it's kind of pointless to the bigger picture - Georgetown shouldn't be in a position to have the 9th, 10th, or 11th best starter in the league at any position. That is horrific recruiting/roster management by the coaching staff. I'm just pointing out how the opinion you stated as fact is incorrect. It appears you're acknowledging that so I'm good.
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
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Post by swhoya on Nov 4, 2021 17:18:57 GMT -5
So, let me get this straight. We're days away from the start of the season, and we are rehashing the same arguments that were made months ago, with no new data/comparisons/anything that would justify re-hashing this? So we're just running down a kid, who is a Hoya, again, for absolutely no reason or no new observations to base it on. Absolutely nothing positive comes from it (and if he reads this: Dante, ignore these keyboard warriors) except to make you feel good about yourselves (trust me, you have bigger problems than Dante, so maybe spend a little more time on self reflection and less on repeating yourself for months).
Hey guys, a new season is upon us! Perfect time to demean and humiliate one of our players, before he's even had a chance to show improvement! Happy Hoyatalk flame war!
Some of you need to get a life, and a shred of decency. YOU'VE ALL HAD YOUR SAY, SO KNOCK IT OFF. The rest of us don't want to see it.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,670
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Post by seaweed on Nov 4, 2021 18:22:24 GMT -5
So, let me get this straight. We're days away from the start of the season, and we are rehashing the same arguments that were made months ago, with no new data/comparisons/anything that would justify re-hashing this? So we're just running down a kid, who is a Hoya, again, for absolutely no reason or no new observations to base it on. Absolutely nothing positive comes from it (and if he reads this: Dante, ignore these keyboard warriors) except to make you feel good about yourselves (trust me, you have bigger problems than Dante, so maybe spend a little more time on self reflection and less on repeating yourself for months). Hey guys, a new season is upon us! Perfect time to demean and humiliate one of our players, before he's even had a chance to show improvement! Happy Hoyatalk flame war! Some of you need to get a life, and a shred of decency. YOU'VE ALL HAD YOUR SAY, SO KNOCK IT OFF. The rest of us don't want to see it. Amen. We are all sick of the pathetic boya games, ready for real life Hoya games.
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Nov 4, 2021 19:39:48 GMT -5
Dante was a no name out of high school and was thrust into a starting PG role in the Big East almost from day 1. He definitely took his lumps during the season but the way he commanded the ship on our run to the title was amazing to watch. He wasn’t Allen Iverson out there but he was just rock solid, under control, composed, Etc. As a freshman in MSG. He sure as hell earned that MVP. If that isn’t a starting caliber guard in the Big East I don’t know what is. It bears repeating that HE DID THIS AS A FRESHMAN. I can’t wait to see how much he improves.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,328
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Post by tashoya on Nov 4, 2021 19:45:43 GMT -5
Jared Bynum started the games he was fully healthy in. He only played 17 games total. That’s the same thing you’re saying about Thompson. Isn’t that an example of you using one set of rules for Bynum and another for Tate that are totally contradictory? Tate started more total games than Thompson (20+) and he was the starting pg for that team in 11 games. That’s almost half of their season HB. I’ll take the third paragraph as you stepping away from the ledge a bit because not only did you say he was the worst starting pg in the league, you said he was the worst starter in the conference period. Don’t you think that’s a bit of an overstatement? I said he "might" be the worst starter in the conference last year, period. I think there's certainly an argument that can be made to that effect. You want to debate whether he was the 9th, 10th or 11th best starting PG in an 11-team league? Fine, let's have that debate, although it's kind of pointless to the bigger picture - Georgetown shouldn't be in a position to have the 9th, 10th, or 11th best starter in the league at any position. That is horrific recruiting/roster management by the coaching staff. Not without sustaining a traumatic brain injury there isn't.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2021 19:57:38 GMT -5
Dante's two closest statistical comparisons for his FR season on KenPom: Tyger Campbell (FR) Anthony Cowan (FR)
Campbell was a starter on a F4 UCLA team & projected 1st team Pac12
Cowan started 4 years at Maryland and won 90 games.
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617hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 254
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Post by 617hoya on Nov 4, 2021 20:29:35 GMT -5
9 days to go and this is what y’all are bickering about. My goodness.
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Nov 4, 2021 21:03:25 GMT -5
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,488
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Post by dchoya72 on Nov 4, 2021 21:13:48 GMT -5
So, let me get this straight. We're days away from the start of the season, and we are rehashing the same arguments that were made months ago, with no new data/comparisons/anything that would justify re-hashing this? So we're just running down a kid, who is a Hoya, again, for absolutely no reason or no new observations to base it on. Absolutely nothing positive comes from it (and if he reads this: Dante, ignore these keyboard warriors) except to make you feel good about yourselves (trust me, you have bigger problems than Dante, so maybe spend a little more time on self reflection and less on repeating yourself for months). Hey guys, a new season is upon us! Perfect time to demean and humiliate one of our players, before he's even had a chance to show improvement! Happy Hoyatalk flame war! Some of you need to get a life, and a shred of decency. YOU'VE ALL HAD YOUR SAY, SO KNOCK IT OFF. The rest of us don't want to see it. Amen. We are all sick of the pathetic boya games, ready for real life Hoya games. Amen!
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Nov 5, 2021 6:00:03 GMT -5
Do you think Jared Bynum or Myles Tate had better seasons than Dante and why? Where does defense fit into your evaluation? Aaron Thompson was Butler's starting PG, not Myles Tate, so not a relevant comparison. Dante Harris started 21 games for Georgetown, while Bynum started only 11 games for Providence - again, not a relevant comparison. Defense is part of the eye test in the evaluation, though I'm sure if I went back and looked at box scores of opposing PGs Dante Harris was guarding, I could come up with specific data showing that he's nothing special defensively. I do think he's a better defensive player than offensive player, though. Like I said earlier, if we're talking about whether the Georgetown PG is the 9th, 10th, or 11th best starter in the league - I think that's enough evidence right there that 1) he must not be very good; and 2) Georgetown is not in a good place relative to its historical position. I wish Dante well and hope he overachieves, but he's best suited to be a sparkplug off the bench, not a starting PG on a good Big East team that you're counting on for a lot of production. That's not Dante's fault, that's his coaching staff's fault. Bro you need a new hobby.
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s4hoyas
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by s4hoyas on Nov 5, 2021 8:10:18 GMT -5
Your ongoing and repetitive box score "analysis" ignores some of the most important qualities of a successful point guard...leadership (does he lead by example through his on and off court effort (check)...does he make his teammates better through his on court desire/example (note the improvement of Blair, Bile and Pickett during the second half of the season (check)...does he make clutch/game winning plays and especially f/ts with the game on the line-see the BE tournament (check)...does the staff trust him to take care of the ball and make the right play (check)...will his teammates rally around him and elevate their effort/games due to his leadership (check)...now, are there areas in which he can improve?...absolutely, and hopefully we'll see that improvement/growth reflected as he goes from his freshman to his sophomore year...
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