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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jun 30, 2005 18:26:19 GMT -5
How was the petition "fake"? Anyway, I view it another way. As an alumnus and contributor to Georgetown, I am much like a shareholder. Ultimately, GU is accountable to its customers and shareholders. The petition and such expressed displeasure with Georgetown's product and service. In the end, Esherick's superior did make the decision, based upon input from his shareholders and customers. If someone on my BOD wanted me fired, or Wal-mart called the company and said I was offering poor service, and I was subsequently fired, unless they were lying, I wouldn't consider that classless. I understand your point of view if a person has GU's best interest at heart. I'm talking about the ones who had a hidden agenda. The ones who didn't like Esh personally. Not because of his coaching methods, but because they didn't like him personally. The ones trying to make a name for themselves. Sure, they mask their aspirations like a good politician, but they had ulterior motives. That is an act of a low-life. But me personally, I couldn't sleep at night nor could I look myself in the mirror as a man knowing I tried to get someone fired just to satisfy my own selfish needs. But then again, thats me. Some people don't have a conscious. I don't think you have a conscious - you make accusations, impute motives, throw ad hominems at people who are not public figures and share your commitment to this team in a different way. You cannot honestly believe that the rally had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Esh and had to do with the overall way the administration approached the program in general. I am telling you that I was there, I was in this chat then, I was one of the people whose motives you impute every time this subject comes up, and I am one of the people who has to set the record straight for all the other alumni who were not on-campus (like you) at the time and who were not at the meetings where we discussed the rally (like you) - the people involved in the rally were good and descent people that disagreed with the overall relationship between the administration, athletic department, and the mens' basketball program and wanted to call attention to a different way of doing business. You can ignore this fact all you want, assume all you want, but you can't change the fact that you WEREN'T THERE and hence have no right to throw these personal accusations around at anyone involved in the rally. I sent you a PM two weeks ago and asked you to hold back on ad hominems when it was clear that your problems with some people on this board were intractable - you chose to ignore that, just like you choose to ignore reality when you talk about the rally, facilities, and the current status of the program. I was there for the duration of the rally, I helped plan it, I worked with the people that you have decided to impugn and you are way out of line.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Jun 30, 2005 18:55:21 GMT -5
I'm not attacking anybody. I'm speaking my mind. If the shoe fits wear it.You do not own me or do not control me. If the shoe fits wear it. Like I said before, some may have had good intentions. But on many occasion in past posts on this very board, others who were involved have flat-out mentioned why they did the petition and rally. Those weren't my words. Those were words uttered by those individuals, only for them to try and backtrack and recant what they said. That is not an attack.This is not a figment of my imagination.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jun 30, 2005 19:15:00 GMT -5
Since you are clearly baiting me by referring to something that I said 6 months ago on this board and you contrived into meaning something that it did not and I defended at this time I will simply stand by what I have said earlier about your entire approach to the program being unaccomodating, uninformed, and outdated and that your recourse to personal attacks and baiting of me and others on this board is without a doubt a cause of incredibly undue drama. You still ofcourse have based everything you said on another ad hominem: "If the shoe fits wear it.", baiting me, and then claiming that your statement which was clearly intended and -in fact - is an attack is not an attack. You still of course based all of your attacks on one post on this board (which you misinterpreted) and not any real evidence. You of course didn't answer the fact that you weren't there, know none of the rally organizers personally, or have any real basis for imputing the motives that you do - but that's about what I would expect.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Jun 30, 2005 19:20:29 GMT -5
Again, nobody is baiting anybody. I know what you are trying to do and what you are up to. You are not slick. I stand by what I said. I know what I said. And I also know what others have said now and what others have said in the past. Have a nice day.
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Post by Frank Black on Jun 30, 2005 19:29:35 GMT -5
I don't care if the rally was undertaken for the purposes of procuring Esh's termination or not. If it was not, fine. If it was, fine. Craig Esherick was getting paid a ton of money to coach basketball and was doing a horrible job. And he refused to see that he was horrible, which made the injury that much worse. The only analogy I can muster is Dick Cheney and his last throes comment (note: I voted for Bush). Such a breathtaking departure from reality strongly suggests that someone is unfit to lead. Cheney at least tried to backtrack somewhat, Esh really didn't seem to have a clue. The same errors endured nonstop, it was nightmarish. And yes, the problems began before he took over the helm and JTII was nearly as flummoxed his last two or three years in charge, but Esh was the man in charge at the time and the team clearly had no chance with him. Heh, in short if the rally was intended to get him canned, good for them. jahidi-hoya, great job. Your comments were hilarious. And damn if Craig Esherick doesn't get people talking on a hot June afternoon.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 30, 2005 20:16:52 GMT -5
65 posts and over 1200 viewings in one day.... gotta be a post about Craig.
I might as well add my thoughts here too. 1. Congratulations to Craig. I wish him the best in his new gig. He's a smart guy. He should do well. 2. Jahidi.... that was some funny stuff man! Hope to see you again before the next BE tourney! 3. To Esh defenders, a couple of wisecracks are not a big deal. Esh has a new job. Let's all move on.
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Jun 30, 2005 20:33:49 GMT -5
Nice post, SirSaxa. But why does it not surprise this moderator that the individual or topic or theme that gets this board hopping the most isn't JT2, a HOF coach, virtual architect of GU bball and commentator who has a wealth of controversial and usually very well informed opinions on a plethora of subjects inside and outside basketball, isn't JT3, who is in the midst of restoring GU bball to its deserved greatness, isn't Patrick Ewing Jr. or Sr., isn't Jeff Green, isn't Brandon Bowman, isn't Dikembe Mutombo or Alonzo Mourning or Mike Sweetney or Allen Iverson or Josh Thornton or Jonathan Wallace or Darrell Owens or DaJuan Summers or Jeremiah Rivers or Vernon Macklin? ?? Love or hate him or glad he's got a new career, there's no one that seems to provoke discussion on this board like CE. He's the Bill Clinton of HoyaTalk! LOL! ;D
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jun 30, 2005 20:44:39 GMT -5
Great move for Esh and congratulations to him. It sounds like a great position. While I don't think there is always a bright-line distinction between good-natured ribbing and attacking someome, I think jahidi's post were more slanted toward the former. Regardless, Esh is a public figure, he is a man, and these certainly are not such vicious attacks to get everyone's dander up.
On the other hand, personally attacking other posters/imputing motives to private posters you don't know personally, etc. is really unnecessary (although I have probably done this once or twice in heat of the moment). Some of the recent posts here have gone from honest debate to just thinly veiled personal attacks. Totally out of bounds. Deep breaths for everyone, we're all on the same side. go hoyas.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 30, 2005 20:53:24 GMT -5
So we don't need new facilities, we didn't need a new coach, we don't need to be tinkering with the starting lineup. Does anyone else picture the_way as Walter Sobchak, constantly saying "Nothing is f$# EasyEd here, Dude." Other potential quotes... "Also, Dude, coaching train wreck is not the preferred nomenclature. Craig Esherick, please." Smokey, this isn't 'Nam, this is Big East Basketball. There are rules. "[frantically] Has the whole world gone crazy?! Am I the only one around here who gives a f&^%k about Daryl Owens being in the starting lineup?! Mark him on the lineup card!" [calmer] This is a league game Smokey." "Ninety eight years of beautiful tradition, from Henry Hyde to Patrick Ewing, you're goddamn right I'm living in the past!" The Dude: "I don't see any connection between petitions and making jokes about Craig Esherick, Walter." Walter/the_way: "Well, there is a literal connection, Dude." The Dude: "Walter, face it, there isn't any connection." "The man in black pajamas. Worthy f-ing adversary. Whereas what we have in the ACC is a bunch of clowns struggling to find their way to the hoop. This is not a worthy adversary." Walter: Am I wrong? The Dude: No, you're not wrong. Walter: Am I wrong? The Dude: No, you're not wrong Walter, you're just an a$$hole. Walter: All right then.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Jun 30, 2005 20:53:36 GMT -5
Nice post, SirSaxa. But why does it not surprise this moderator that the individual or topic or theme that gets this board hopping the most isn't JT2, a HOF coach, virtual architect of GU bball and commentator who has a wealth of controversial and usually very well informed opinions on a plethora of subjects inside and outside basketball, isn't JT3, who is in the midst of restoring GU bball to its deserved greatness, isn't Patrick Ewing Jr. or Sr., isn't Jeff Green, isn't Brandon Bowman, isn't Dikembe Mutombo or Alonzo Mourning or Mike Sweetney or Allen Iverson or Josh Thornton or Jonathan Wallace or Darrell Owens or DaJuan Summers or Jeremiah Rivers or Vernon Macklin? ?? Love or hate him or glad he's got a new career, there's no one that seems to provoke discussion on this board like CE. He's the Bill Clinton of HoyaTalk! LOL! ;D We do post about Iverson, Mourning, Sweetney, and Mutumbo. But those threads are always quickly booted to the "dead-man's land" Pro Boards by those crazy moderators. ;D Oh yeah, Austin. That was pretty funny! LOL ;D
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Jun 30, 2005 20:58:06 GMT -5
Jahidi, great posts. Brightened my night.
Everyone else, it's a chat board in the off-season. We're allowed to have a little fun.
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doublehoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
That's Right, I Said Minivan!
Posts: 980
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Post by doublehoya on Jun 30, 2005 21:49:47 GMT -5
Again, nobody is baiting anybody. I know what you are trying to do and what you are up to. You are not slick. I stand by what I said. I know what I said. And I also know what others have said now and what others have said in the past. Have a nice day. Am I the only person that was reminded of Tom Cruise on the Today show by this post? "TOM CRUISE: No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." youcantmakeitup.blogspot.com/2005/06/cruise-uncontrollable.html
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Jun 30, 2005 21:59:56 GMT -5
Again, nobody is baiting anybody. I know what you are trying to do and what you are up to. You are not slick. I stand by what I said. I know what I said. And I also know what others have said now and what others have said in the past. Have a nice day. Am I the only person that was reminded of Tom Cruise on the Today show by this post? "TOM CRUISE: No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." youcantmakeitup.blogspot.com/2005/06/cruise-uncontrollable.htmlYes, you are the only one. Or maybe the only two, double (pun intended).
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,569
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 1, 2005 1:41:38 GMT -5
Apparently this really is the dawning of a new age of fascism. We aren't allowed to critique, cajole or roast anybody anymore. These were lighthearted pot shots made by fellow fans. They were made in good humor and quite frankly they were hilarious. Everybody take off your riding boots and stop goose stepping. Let me point out that two of the much-maligned moderators have now chimed in and, contrary to your words above, the thread has neither been censored nor locked. As for the namesake of the thread, I wish the guy well and, while recognizing the humor, wonder why some people can't move on from the past and look to the future?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2005 6:03:25 GMT -5
That's like telling Red Sox fans to move on from Bill Buckner... its a shared part of our (miserable) collective pasts as Hoya fans and its going to take something REALLY cathartic to move on from it. Especially considering how much the program regressed in those years...
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Jul 1, 2005 7:06:00 GMT -5
Show me a post on this board or the Pro Boards (where posts about Hoya pros belong by the_way (pun intended! ouch!)) about any Hoya pro that wracks up 4 pages and nearly 2K views in one day. It just doesn't happen! Esh is a lightning rod, the third rail (like Social Security in politics), a catalyst for polemics and railing and posting like nothing/no one else in Hoya land. I second Dan's motion. No moderator/admin has banned this yet. Although we do politely ask the inmates/youngsters to behave and clean up after themselves when they're through!!! LOL!
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jahidihoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
jahidihoya
Posts: 534
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Post by jahidihoya on Jul 1, 2005 8:16:11 GMT -5
BREAKING NEWS...
CSTV has bought the naming rights to the MCI Center. The new court will be called the 'Craig Esherick Center'. In recognition of this prestigious honor, Craig Esherick, the VP of Athletic Relations for CSTV was quoted as saying: "This new center ain't going anywhere. It may be here for another 30 years. And you can quote me on that."
Some of the exciting new features of this state of the art facility include:
* A slightly wider basketball court that will allow six opposing players to comfortably play on the court at the same time.
* A press conference podium built directly next to the bench. The coaches will no longer have to wait until after the game to whine about foul calls. They can organize a press conference DURING the game.
* A bathroom directly behind the bench so that when the coach has to go there is no embarassing long walk.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,303
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Post by Cambridge on Jul 1, 2005 8:16:23 GMT -5
Apparently this really is the dawning of a new age of fascism. We aren't allowed to critique, cajole or roast anybody anymore. These were lighthearted pot shots made by fellow fans. They were made in good humor and quite frankly they were hilarious. Everybody take off your riding boots and stop goose stepping. Let me point out that two of the much-maligned moderators have now chimed in and, contrary to your words above, the thread has neither been censored nor locked. As for the namesake of the thread, I wish the guy well and, while recognizing the humor, wonder why some people can't move on from the past and look to the future? WBH & DanMQ while my comments might have appeared to indict you and other moderators, but I was actually referring to other posters attempting to kill a topic of discussion. I appreciate you guys for leaving it open.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Jul 1, 2005 8:31:55 GMT -5
BREAKING NEWS... CSTV has bought the naming rights to the MCI Center. The new court will be called the 'Craig Esherick Center'. In recognition of this prestigious honor, Craig Esherick, the VP of Athletic Relations for CSTV was quoted as saying: "This new center ain't going anywhere. It may be here for another 30 years. And you can quote me on that." Some of the exciting new features of this state of the art facility include: * A slightly wider basketball court that will allow six opposing players to comfortably play on the court at the same time. * A press conference podium built directly next to the bench. The coaches will no longer have to wait until after the game to whine about foul calls. They can organize a press conference DURING the game. * A bathroom directly behind the bench so that when the coach has to go there is no embarassing long walk. This is like John Doe at the party. The guy who normally isn't funny, but tells jokes all the time because he thinks he is funny. However, on this one occasion a few of his jokes bring a few laughs from the crowd. The few laughs from the crowd egg him on, so he keeps going to the point where he is back to his natural boring self. Only he doesn't realize that those laughs are the exception, not the rule. So through the remainder of the party he keeps cracking jokes that nobody finds funny anymore, but he is oblvious to all of this. He just doesn't stop. People don't go near him anymore because the earlier laughs from the crowd have created a monster. Except for Jane Doe who has a kind heart. She doesn't want to hurt his feelings by saying his jokes are remarkably dull. So, to appease him, she stands there in front of him hearing bad joke after bad joke. Making faces and saying "wow, John you are a riot", but she is crying on the inside. Others witness the debacle, thinking "gosh, poor thing. I can't believe she is listening to his dumb jokes. That is worst than torture".
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Jul 1, 2005 8:39:58 GMT -5
Again, nobody is baiting anybody. I know what you are trying to do and what you are up to. You are not slick. I stand by what I said. I know what I said. And I also know what others have said now and what others have said in the past. Have a nice day. I honestly think the_way IS Esherick. I believe the "_" in "the_way" is in place of the name "the esherick way."
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