CSTV Announcement on Esherick

[Deleted]

hoyalove4ever, quick question - are you of the opinion that end of game miscues were more a result of execution than coaching? Or were expertly defended? I'm just curious... talk to me, goose.

[HoyaDestroya]

From HoyaSaxa.com.. this isn't funny - it's sad.

Hatten led a comeback that erased nine points off the lead in two minutes. With 2:04 left, here is the game sequence:

GU Possession SJU Possession Score
G, 67-58
Ingram 3 pointer G, 67-61
Turnover (Hall) G, 67-61
Hatten jumper G, 67-63
Sweetney jumper G, 69-63
Hatten 3 pointer G, 69-66
Offensive foul (Bowman) G, 69-66
Hatten 3 pointer Tie,69-69
Samnick FT, turnover (Sweetney) G, 70-69
Hatten layup SJ, 71-70
Turnover (Samnick) SJ, 71-70
Hatten layup SJ 73-70
Hall free throws SJ 73-72
Hatten free throws SJ 75-72
Turnover (Hall) SJ 75-72
Ingram free throw SJ,76-72
Offensive foul (Bowman) SJ 76-72
St. John free throw SJ 77-72
Missed shot (Bowman) Final

[JohnnyTwoTimes]

jahidihoya said:

Thank you, JohnnyTwoTimes. Thank you for bringing up a painful memory!

I still wake up at night recalling what the roof of the "World's Most Famous Arena" looked like as I laid upon my back in a pile of broken tricycle pieces...

I will get them next year. I will train on a tricycle in the French Alps like Lance Armstrong!

Anytime you get to taunt Jonathan Husky before an audience of thousands, that should not be considered a bad memory. I just wish you had pulled the Randy Moss pseudo-moon on him. You should practice that one for next year.

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

Ok, i feel that if I talk about Esh at any time on this board I will generate a firestorm but here it goes.

1) Jahidi - jokes about the rally are probably a little to soon for some on this board because they still assume that the rally was related to Esh, that Esh was on the agenda, etc. when it really was not - I believe to this day that it is ludicrous to assume that the rally had a direct impact on the decision that DeGioia made and that it is also equally dim-witted to assume that because the two events happened close to one another that they were related - please take it from someone who was involved and there that we did not mean that and don't impute motives on our parts

2) Esh is doing just fine at his new job and to my knowledge is pulling down big bucks working for a network that apparently only some of the TVs on the sales floor at Best Buy get . And if I'm not mistaken he had a long term contract with the university when he left and also pulled down significant change during his time as head coach - financially he is not down. Professionally, I am not sure how Esh feels in his new job or whether he wants to be back on the sidelines after pursuing a few jobs this year.

3) Given the fact that a good percentage of this board alternatively targets Dick Vitale, Coach K, Jay Billas, UMCP, Jim Boehiem, Syracuse University, the city of Syracuse, NY, Jack DeGioia, university staff, Joe Lang, UCONN, Calhoun, and others in the course of their posting - and that this is a fairly mild board by any standard - I don't think its inappropriate to use humor to target someone - its less malicious than Jahidi posting ad hominem attacks on Esh without humor IMO.

4) Relax. Esh doesn't coach here anymore. He is the past. I don't think Jahidi ever said that Esh was a bad alumnus or member of the Georgetown Community - he is only referencing his head coaching days.

5) To be completely honest, Esh's substitution strategy (hockey on the hardwood as I used to call it - which keeps players from really getting into a rhythm playing with each other) and his X's and O's strategy in late game situations did loose us a good number of games down the stretch in the last 2 years of his career - I was there and saw that with my own eyes. Other than the Seton Hall 6 man game where the refs clearly lost us the game - the team did not seem equipped to handle those situations.

[hoyalove4ever]

Buffalo: it depends upon which end of game "miscues" you are talking about.

Here's a very condensed version of just one example:

I don't consider ND '02 as any miscue. We used a 1-4 set and gave the ball to our senior PG. As I have spent hours on this board discussing, this was a very safe strategy: it virtually guaranteed that at the very least, we would get off the last shot and have to go to another OT if we missed. If you remember our passing in '02, it was very poor (as it was for many of the Thompson years). To run any sort of complex play was to invite a turnover in a situation when the worst case scenario should have been another OT.

So why didn't we just pass to Sweetney? Obviously Craig feared that ND would deny Mike the ball and the play would break down, so he played it safe and went to the 1-4. He put the ball in the hands of his senior, four-year-started PG, and asked him to make a play: score yourself, draw a foul, or create and distribute. And then he stuck with the guy instead of ditching him after he missed the first time around. As painful as that loss was, I commend him for that.

It's fine to disagree with this decision, but to depict it as some sort of braindead blunder is wholly misguided, in my opinion.

That's just the brief version of only one example. Like I said, if you want to trade tapes and go in-depth, let's do it; you choose the game. But here are a few more thoughts:

I would argue that most of our struggles in '03 were the result of 1) Wesley Wilson, a highly-depended-on contributer, giving the team virtually nothing and then either quitting or get kicking off the team, for whatever reason and 2) Tony Bethel failing to reach even a decent level of play for a Big East PG. After Wilson's departure, I would argue that if anything, Craig did well in keeping us in games against superior opponents.

Against SJU, the team just fell apart. Craig deserves some blame for not finding a way to stop the bleeding, but I sure as heck don't blame him for 1) things like Hall dribbling the ball off his foot and 2) the SJU guards finally realizing that they could dominate our guards and doing it.

I could go on and on, but I don't have time. Let me know if there are specific instances you want to debate.

[hoyahoyasaxa]

With regard to the ND game-- After the play not working twice, I would think that he might have tried something else. But he didn't.

I heard that he also hates America, babies, apple pie, and was a member of the Communist Party. But someone could have made that up.

[EasyEd]

First off I'd like to apologize for nominating jahidi for jerk of the year. Way off base.

Some may call me sanctimonious but I believe that each person should be treated with dignity, particularly someone like Esherick who gave most of his life to Georgetown. Among other places, I learned this at Georgetown. I believe it was fair game to criticize his tenure as head coach but that ended over a year ago and some don't seem capable of letting it go. I do not think it's fair game to use supposed humor to ridicule him - and, that's what this "humor" is. It's intended to get a laugh from the crowd at the expense of another human being, another Hoya. And, I think this ridicule has continued for far too long.

Humor is great when done properly and I use humor all the time - but, I try not to use it to downgrade another.

Again, I'm sorry for using the "jerk" word.

[jahidihoya]

CSTV Nielsen ratings were released today for a variety of key markets:

* CSTV lost the East Rutherford market after Nielsen mistakenly added up the ratings for six different ESPN channels at one time.

* CSTV was taken off of the Hartford cable system and is now only shown on a public access channel based in Storrs, CT. They have not won the Hartford market in almost a decade.

[Cambridge]

Apparently this really is the dawning of a new age of fascism. We aren't allowed to critique, cajole or roast anybody anymore. These were lighthearted pot shots made by fellow fans. They were made in good humor and quite frankly they were hilarious. Everybody take off your riding boots and stop goose stepping.

[SaxaCD]

What do you mean you're "not allowed to"? You just did, didn't you? Or do you mean "we're not allowed to without some people objecting"? Or "we're not allowed to do some stuff we agreed not to do when we signed up for membership on this board"?

I mean, I don't care either way, but fascism and censorship? Over Esh jokes? And you think other people need to lighten up? Sheesh!

[prhoya]

Funny schtufffff, you guys!!! I loved the back and forth discussion and the jahidi e-mails in between.

Have you noticed how Esh threads always have a fire-burning envelope icon?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: nothing gets this board going like Esh...

Esh, stay humble...

[SaxaCD]

Whatever else the guy may be, he certainly is a conversation piece!

[jahidihoya]

Thanks again everyone. Don't forget to tip your waitresses and bartender.

Have a good night!

[prhoya]

...and brings out the best in his players (not!) and the Boardmembers... (this e-mail should have followed Saxa's, but jahidi beat me to it).

[doublehoya]

hoyalove4ever said:

I would argue that most of our struggles in '03 were the result of 1) Wesley Wilson, a highly-depended-on contributer, giving the team virtually nothing and then either quitting or get kicking off the team, for whatever reason and 2) Tony Bethel failing to reach even a decent level of play for a Big East PG. After Wilson's departure, I would argue that if anything, Craig did well in keeping us in games against superior opponents.

OK, this cracks me up. People are up in arms over Jahidi's hilarious cracks on Esh, and say it is unfair to attack him, blah, blah, and then, IN DEFENSE OF THAT POSITION, hoyalove4ever goes on to attack two STUDENT ATHLETES!! So, attacking a HC, who is a grown man, a lawyer, and clearly a well-compensated public figure, is somehow worse than attacking two STUDENT ATHLETES??

Let's get some perspective guys. And let's all learn one important lesson from this thread:

JahidiHoya is hilarious.

Case closed.

[the_way]

Jahidihoya, hilarious!?

[doublehoya]

theway said:

Esh spoke out because some lowlifes ran their mouths,conjured up protest rallys and petitions, and personally attacked him. He defended himself. Just like he defended Mike Sweetney when he felt Mike was getting treated unfairly.

Yet another example of the hypocrisy of the rearguard defense of Esh. No one is allowed to attack esh, but ad hominem attacks against those who cared enough to organize efforts to make the program better? Yeah, those are OK.

Nice.

[the_way]

doublehoya said:

theway said:

Esh spoke out because some lowlifes ran their mouths,conjured up protest rallys and petitions, and personally attacked him. He defended himself. Just like he defended Mike Sweetney when he felt Mike was getting treated unfairly.

Yet another example of the hypocrisy of the rearguard defense of Esh. No one is allowed to attack esh, but ad hominem attacks against those who cared enough to organize efforts to make the program better? Yeah, those are OK.

Nice.

Making attempts to get a man fired is not "organizing an effort" or "making the program better". Making attempts to get a man fired is an act of a low-life, no matter how you slice and dice or backtrack. Thats arrogance. That is rudeness. That is classless. If a man deserves to be fired then his supervisors will make that decision. But going behind the scenes drawing up fake petitions, and coming up with protests rallys just to get somebody fired to make a name for yourself is an act of a low-life.

[SFHoya99]

How was the petition "fake"?

Anyway, I view it another way. As an alumnus and contributor to Georgetown, I am much like a shareholder. Ultimately, GU is accountable to its customers and shareholders. The petition and such expressed displeasure with Georgetown's product and service. In the end, Esherick's superior did make the decision, based upon input from his shareholders and customers.

If someone on my BOD wanted me fired, or Wal-mart called the company and said I was offering poor service, and I was subsequently fired, unless they were lying, I wouldn't consider that classless.

Arrogance is offering a poor product and crappy service while raising the price, all while flaunting it in the face of your customers.

[the_way]

sfhoya99 said:

How was the petition "fake"?

Anyway, I view it another way. As an alumnus and contributor to Georgetown, I am much like a shareholder. Ultimately, GU is accountable to its customers and shareholders. The petition and such expressed displeasure with Georgetown's product and service. In the end, Esherick's superior did make the decision, based upon input from his shareholders and customers.

If someone on my BOD wanted me fired, or Wal-mart called the company and said I was offering poor service, and I was subsequently fired, unless they were lying, I wouldn't consider that classless.

I understand your point of view if a person has GU's best interest at heart. I'm talking about the ones who had a hidden agenda. The ones who didn't like Esh personally. Not because of his coaching methods, but because they didn't like him personally. The ones trying to make a name for themselves. Sure, they mask their aspirations like a good politician, but they had alterior motives. That is an act of a low-life. But me personally, I couldn't sleep at night nor could I look myself in the mirror as a man knowing I tried to get someone fired just to satisfy my own selfish needs. But then again, thats me. Some people don't have a conscious.