jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 8, 2018 19:49:00 GMT -5
So Jessie and Marcus had a pretty strong year. Next year, they will be perhaps the strongest frontcourt in the Big East and maybe the country.
Clearly, they are better on offense than defense. On offense, they are two of the most skilled big men we have seen in blue and gray in a long time.
So how do they get better on defense? I was a bit surprised to learn during the St. John’s game that Jessie’s nickname is ‘FItness Jessie’. One of the ways you improve defense it to improve fitness so that you don’t tire while working. If this is what a fit Jessie can do, then how does he improve? MD too- we know how hard he has worked on his fitness, but Clark from St. John’s and the big from Marquette simply had too much success at key moments.
Do we need to adjust our scheme? Do you need to change how we provide help? Or are we getting what we likely can from these two?
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 8, 2018 22:04:22 GMT -5
Is it just me or, as good as both guys have become, does it seem like they, and the way they are used, is really "old school". The era of the big, fairly slow, low post players is over. Look at Nova. A bunch of guys 6'3". - 6'7" who are athletic, can run, play d, rebound pass, dribble penetrate and SHOOT THREES. I'd trade Jesse for DiVincenzo, Bridges, or Paschal in a minute. Like I said, is it me? Anyone else feel the same way?
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Mar 8, 2018 22:22:58 GMT -5
Is it just me or, as good as both guys have become, does it seem like they, and the way they are used, is really "old school". The era of the big, fairly slow, low post players is over. Look at Nova. A bunch of guys 6'3". - 6'7" who are athletic, can run, play d, rebound pass, dribble penetrate and SHOOT THREES. I'd trade Jesse for DiVincenzo, Bridges, or Paschal in a minute. Like I said, is it me? Anyone else feel the same way? I don’t. Marcus has a great face up game. I don’t think of him as a traditional big at all. I’d like to see him use a pump fake from three and take it to the hole, or take a dribble and step in for a mid-range shot....but overall, loved his progress this year. Jessie is incredibly skilled. Agree that he needs to work on D and his explosiveness...but Jessie will be fine. Our problem is guard play, period...end of story. Dickerson was our best guard and we didn’t discover that until there were 5 games left in the season. Hoping we can get 10 points and 5 assists from McClung next year. If we do...watch out.
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Post by ewingitrust on Mar 9, 2018 0:20:25 GMT -5
Another season of strength and conditioning under Ewing...Govan and Derrickson will both be 1st All Big East together next yr.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 9, 2018 1:01:40 GMT -5
Is it just me or, as good as both guys have become, does it seem like they, and the way they are used, is really "old school". The era of the big, fairly slow, low post players is over. Look at Nova. A bunch of guys 6'3". - 6'7" who are athletic, can run, play d, rebound pass, dribble penetrate and SHOOT THREES. I'd trade Jesse for DiVincenzo, Bridges, or Paschal in a minute. Like I said, is it me? Anyone else feel the same way? Seriously? No, I wouldn't be crazy enough to trade Govan for any of those guys. No offense but it is much more easy to find dudes like that coming out of high school than it is a 6'10, 250 pounds + big man who has the skills, finesse and footwork to score effectively in the post or just outside the paint through his faceup game. Oh and he can rebound effectively too and passes extremely well for a center. That type of player doesn't grow on trees. The key for the Hoyas is to surround him with perimeter players, ala Bridges or DiVincenzo, who could allow the Hoyas to better take advantage of his abilities. Did we all watch the same season? Govan and Derrickson may not be the fleetest of foot but they were nonetheless a matchup nightmare for the other teams to stop offensively and keep off the boards. What I loved about Ewing's coaching was that he accepted SOME disadvantages on defense with the two of them on the court at the same time in order to benefit from the actual advantages the tandem provided for the team, particularly on the other side of the court. So while Derrickson and Govan were far from perfect they were not the problem for the team this season. Without them this squad would not have even been competitive. They were the ones opposing coaches had to gameplan for. And by the way if the two of them were actual elite-level athletes and had the same level of skills they likely wouldn't be around for their junior seasons let alone their senior ones. Heck, they may have not even had gone to Gtown in the first place because that elite-level athleticism would have likely brought about a greater number of blue blood suitors for their services when they were in high school. I realize Hoya fans are frustrated but they need to be more grateful for some of the player they have.
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the_way
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The Illest
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Post by the_way on Mar 9, 2018 1:22:00 GMT -5
Is it just me or, as good as both guys have become, does it seem like they, and the way they are used, is really "old school". The era of the big, fairly slow, low post players is over. Look at Nova. A bunch of guys 6'3". - 6'7" who are athletic, can run, play d, rebound pass, dribble penetrate and SHOOT THREES. I'd trade Jesse for DiVincenzo, Bridges, or Paschal in a minute. Like I said, is it me? Anyone else feel the same way? I understand what you are saying. However, Jessie and Marcus aren't really "old school" big men. They both are really contemporary big men with the way they can shoot from the outside and are more finesse than bangers on the inside.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 9, 2018 7:05:17 GMT -5
Is it just me or, as good as both guys have become, does it seem like they, and the way they are used, is really "old school". The era of the big, fairly slow, low post players is over. Look at Nova. A bunch of guys 6'3". - 6'7" who are athletic, can run, play d, rebound pass, dribble penetrate and SHOOT THREES. I'd trade Jesse for DiVincenzo, Bridges, or Paschal in a minute. Like I said, is it me? Anyone else feel the same way? I don’t agree. They are important pieces to the puzzle but can’t be the only pieces.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 9, 2018 7:08:23 GMT -5
Is it just me or, as good as both guys have become, does it seem like they, and the way they are used, is really "old school". The era of the big, fairly slow, low post players is over. Look at Nova. A bunch of guys 6'3". - 6'7" who are athletic, can run, play d, rebound pass, dribble penetrate and SHOOT THREES. I'd trade Jesse for DiVincenzo, Bridges, or Paschal in a minute. Like I said, is it me? Anyone else feel the same way? Seriously? No, I wouldn't be crazy enough to trade Govan for any of those guys. No offense but it is much more easy to find dudes like that coming out of high school than it is a 6'10, 250 pounds + big man who has the skills, finesse and footwork to score effectively in the post or just outside the paint through his faceup game. Oh and he can rebound effectively too and passes extremely well for a center. That type of player doesn't grow on trees. The key for the Hoyas is to surround him with perimeter players, ala Bridges or DiVincenzo, who could allow the Hoyas to better take advantage of his abilities. Did we all watch the same season? Govan and Derrickson may not be the fleetest of foot but they were nonetheless a matchup nightmare for the other teams to stop offensively and keep off the boards. What I loved about Ewing's coaching was that he accepted SOME disadvantages on defense with the two of them on the court at the same time in order to benefit from the actual advantages the tandem provided for the team, particularly on the other side of the court. So while Derrickson and Govan were far from perfect they were not the problem for the team this season. Without them this squad would not have even been competitive. They were the ones opposing coaches had to gameplan for. And by the way if the two of them were actual elite-level athletes and had the same level of skills they likely wouldn't be around for their junior seasons let alone their senior ones. Heck, they may have not even had gone to Gtown in the first place because that elite-level athleticism would have likely brought about a greater number of blue blood suitors for their services when they were in high school. I realize Hoya fans are frustrated but they need to be more grateful for some of the player they have. Regarding match-ups, the one adjustment I wish we made more consistently was to punish opponents when defensive switches put guards on our bigs. We seemed to have no recognition of this when we were on offense.. If teams were switching on screens, we shoud have set up the pick and roll to get the switch and then move JG and MD directly to the block to get the easy basket. It was a bit maddening to watch the situation unfold and then to watch the team ignore it.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 9, 2018 8:19:15 GMT -5
Is it just me or, as good as both guys have become, does it seem like they, and the way they are used, is really "old school". The era of the big, fairly slow, low post players is over. Look at Nova. A bunch of guys 6'3". - 6'7" who are athletic, can run, play d, rebound pass, dribble penetrate and SHOOT THREES. I'd trade Jesse for DiVincenzo, Bridges, or Paschal in a minute. Like I said, is it me? Anyone else feel the same way? I don’t. Marcus has a great face up game. I don’t think of him as a traditional big at all. I’d like to see him use a pump fake from three and take it to the hole, or take a dribble and step in for a mid-range shot....but overall, loved his progress this year. Jessie is incredibly skilled. Agree that he needs to work on D and his explosiveness...but Jessie will be fine. Our problem is guard play, period...end of story. Dickerson was our best guard and we didn’t discover that until there were 5 games left in the season. Hoping we can get 10 points and 5 assists from McClung next year. If we do...watch out. Not sure if I would call their games "old school" because they both have the ability to stretch the floor with 3 point range, but neither is what anyone would call an explosive athlete and that limits some of the things they can do on offense and defense. Coach Ewing did a good job of putting them in positions where they could succeed offensively this season, but some times other teams also took advantage of their limitations physically on the defensive end by trying to make Marcus cover quicker wings on the perimeter and putting Jessie in a lot of pick and roll situations. Finding ways to supplement these limitations is going to be key to making the Hoyas a better defensive team next year Neither guy is ever going to blow by his defender going to the rim, but both could use to develop some complimentary moves on offense that expand their games.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 9, 2018 8:41:14 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 9, 2018 10:14:37 GMT -5
Thought they would, but great news - might help bring in a couple more guards that want to feed them the ball.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 9, 2018 10:44:03 GMT -5
Thought they would, but great news - might help bring in a couple more guards that want to feed them the ball. You would think this would be the biggest no brainer in history for a one and done PG.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 9, 2018 11:21:17 GMT -5
I don’t. Marcus has a great face up game. I don’t think of him as a traditional big at all. I’d like to see him use a pump fake from three and take it to the hole, or take a dribble and step in for a mid-range shot....but overall, loved his progress this year. Jessie is incredibly skilled. Agree that he needs to work on D and his explosiveness...but Jessie will be fine. Our problem is guard play, period...end of story. Dickerson was our best guard and we didn’t discover that until there were 5 games left in the season. Hoping we can get 10 points and 5 assists from McClung next year. If we do...watch out. Not sure if I would call their games "old school" because they both have the ability to stretch the floor with 3 point range, but neither is what anyone would call an explosive athlete and that limits some of the things they can do on offense and defense. Coach Ewing did a good job of putting them in positions where they could succeed offensively this season, but some times other teams also took advantage of their limitations physically on the defensive end by trying to make Marcus cover quicker wings on the perimeter and putting Jessie in a lot of pick and roll situations. Finding ways to supplement these limitations is going to be key to making the Hoyas a better defensive team next year Neither guy is ever going to blow by his defender going to the rim, but both could use to develop some complimentary moves on offense that expand their games. Okay, so it is just me. But watching all the tournament games the last few weeks, and probably wasting too much time watching way too many games during the year, I just don't see many serious national title contenders who rely on their big men like we do. Granted a good pg would change the dynamic but thanks to the 3 point shot and tighter player control fouls the game today is dominated by those players, guards or small forwards, who can slash to the basket, hit 40%+ of their 3 point shots, and hit the pull up jumper. Nova has perfected this to the point of having 3-4 guys on the court at all times who can do that and accordingly dominating the BE the last 4 years and winning a national title. If MD and Jesse return next year and we have an effective pg to compliment them, plus a more aggressive Jamorko then maybe I will be proven wrong. Our matchups against Nova should be a test.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 9, 2018 11:39:54 GMT -5
Not sure if I would call their games "old school" because they both have the ability to stretch the floor with 3 point range, but neither is what anyone would call an explosive athlete and that limits some of the things they can do on offense and defense. Coach Ewing did a good job of putting them in positions where they could succeed offensively this season, but some times other teams also took advantage of their limitations physically on the defensive end by trying to make Marcus cover quicker wings on the perimeter and putting Jessie in a lot of pick and roll situations. Finding ways to supplement these limitations is going to be key to making the Hoyas a better defensive team next year Neither guy is ever going to blow by his defender going to the rim, but both could use to develop some complimentary moves on offense that expand their games. Okay, so it is just me. But watching all the tournament games the last few weeks, and probably wasting too much time watching way too many games during the year, I just don't see many serious national title contenders who rely on their big men like we do. Granted a good pg would change the dynamic but thanks to the 3 point shot and tighter player control fouls the game today is dominated by those players, guards or small forwards, who can slash to the basket, hit 40%+ of their 3 point shots, and hit the pull up jumper. Nova has perfected this to the point of having 3-4 guys on the court at all times who can do that and accordingly dominating the BE the last 4 years and winning a national title. If MD and Jesse return next year and we have an effective pg to compliment them, plus a more aggressive Jamorko then maybe I will be proven wrong. Our matchups against Nova should be a test. You are correct that the college game has shifted away from teams that play two traditional big men and more toward guards and more mobile/athletic wing players. Having two really good traditional bigs like Jessie and Marcus do give the Hoyas some advantages because they can cause matchup problems for other teams, but you need to compliment them with strong guard/wing play or those advantages can be neutralized.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Mar 9, 2018 16:42:18 GMT -5
[/quote]Okay, so it is just me. But watching all the tournament games the last few weeks, and probably wasting too much time watching way too many games during the year, I just don't see many serious national title contenders who rely on their big men like we do. Granted a good pg would change the dynamic but thanks to the 3 point shot and tighter player control fouls the game today is dominated by those players, guards or small forwards, who can slash to the basket, hit 40%+ of their 3 point shots, and hit the pull up jumper. Nova has perfected this to the point of having 3-4 guys on the court at all times who can do that and accordingly dominating the BE the last 4 years and winning a national title. If MD and Jesse return next year and we have an effective pg to compliment them, plus a more aggressive Jamorko then maybe I will be proven wrong. Our matchups against Nova should be a test.[/quote]
Purdue!
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Mar 9, 2018 17:17:12 GMT -5
A dependable big who can score and defend added to the rotation would help both of them be more productive next year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2018 11:09:52 GMT -5
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 9, 2018 11:21:30 GMT -5
Whoa...gasp Always thought he should be testing the waters but the signing with the agent and completely forgoing his senior year is the surprising part.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 9, 2018 11:37:36 GMT -5
Say it is not so!
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Post by blazers44 on Apr 9, 2018 12:13:55 GMT -5
That hurts
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