bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Jan 3, 2018 10:52:05 GMT -5
Last night was a late game and I was too tired from the college football playoff games to keep up on here as the game went on.
This was a good win for this team. Road wins aren't easy to come by, and it's especially impressive when you win on the road and control most of the game. It's proof that when we play well and some things go our way, we can win. We have an elite level front court, and we need our back court to do just enough to get them the ball and not give the game away.
In terms of takeaways, we still struggled at times against the zone. We hit the three better than we have most of the year, though, and DePaul was much less effective at keeping the ball from getting inside. I was impressed that whenever DePaul made a run, we responded. We didn't act defeated or let the last two losses affect this game.
A tough test now awaits back in (brutally cold) DC on Saturday. Go and get ready for Creighton!
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 3, 2018 11:19:09 GMT -5
I haven't posted for a while, but I have watched the Syracuse, Butler and DePaul games. I missed Marquette but also half watched the creampuffs. I think. Either way, here are some positive and negative thoughts: - I didn't watch Marquette, and the stats make it look like a disaster, but I think people are overreacting a bit against this team. This team could have easily won both the Cuse and Butler games -- and *should* have one. This team is going to blow a lot of leads because we turn the ball over, don't rebound well, aren't great at defense and get too much of our offense on the break and don't have a go to half court game. But those games were close -- in the Butler game, we shot terribly on good shots and in the Cuse game, their one player just hit some insane shots.
- Which brings me to what is most hopeful for me: in the Cuse, Butler, DePaul games, we **absolutely got better shots than our opponents.** We didn't always make them, but this team is generating good shots much of the time. Sure, Derrickson and Govan and not athletic and don't always make the most of position. And our three point shooting is wildly inconsistent. But it's clear that Patrick is running an offense that emphasizes good shots and can create them at a decent clip. It's not just roll the ball out there and run.
- Better sign of this: Patrick's first break in the huddle. How great was that? I'm not the biggest fan of public callouts, but perhaps Derrickson needs that. But more important than the bitching out was the message -- why take that shot? Do you practice that shot? What made you think you were going to make a turnaround, one-footed fadeaway? Derrickson had a statistically decent game, but he also took 3-4 shots that had no shot of going in.
- I think the major concern I have with the offense that Patrick is running is that it is fundamentally a pro offense. We need players to can run it. Some of it simply gets easier against college players, but early only we ran a back screen for Blair, had him pop out and catch, turn and take a three -- which he nailed. But that's something I wonder if college players can hit at the rate Klay Thompson can hit at.
- The more general concern I have is that I was hoping to see that this team is clearly outperforming their talent. They aren't yet; there's no Pitt game to say that we have something in this coach. There's plenty of time for that, but I was hoping to see more signs by now. Especially since next year's class is fine, but hardly amazing.
- Then again, this team probably only has one loss if we simply had a replacement for Pickett. I see the potential, but he's been horrifically bad. Just finding a mediocre player to take his place and we have wins versus Butler and Syracuse. I can take the poor three point shooting. But the 5 turnovers a game for the amount that he handles the ball is like giving your opponents a five point lead. Peak leaving hurt us because Peak was good, but also because Pickett is not, at all.
- Contrastingly, I'm loving Jahvon Blair. This team is full of terrible decision makers -- Mulmore, Dickerson and Pickett are hyper aggressive and attack way too often when there's nothing there. Govan and Dickerson are way too slow to recognize double teams and pass out, though they are much better at being aggressive with the shot in face up situations. Mosely and Kaleb are too tentative, even on ball rotations but definitely on attacking. But Blair simply has a great combination of scoring mentality but the instinctual craftiness to understand that he might have to take a pull up here or there or cut off a drive. He's going to score 15+ for one or two years here at Georgetown.
- It's not a lineup that has any penetration ability, but if Derrickson and/or Govan have a mismatch, Mosely - Blair - Kaleb - Derrickson - Govan is our best lineup.
- Derrickson was getting bitched out for his shot selection, but holy crap I think some of that was for D. His rim protection is non-existant. I can't tell if he's been told not to contest anything, but he just stands in the middle of the lane and watches people go by. He's necessary for the offense, but he's not bringing anything on D. At least Govan moves, even if he can't protect the rim, either.
- Of course, it may be intentional. For the first time since the rules changed, Georgetown is not a foul machine. Now, it's tough to compare to prior years because we've only had four real games so far, and I'd say we had two good games out of four in regards to fouls. We didn't foul too much against Butler or DePaul, but it wasn't great against Cuse and Marquette. Then again, the defense has been pretty bad. But at least opponents needs to hit the shots.
- This board has always been obsessed with point guards, and yes, neither Mulmore nor Dickerson is a good enough player. But I think we are underestimating both how much an anchor Pickett has been AND how much we need a center in recruiting as well. I'm tentatively excited about McClung and think that Blair and Mosely and him could be a sneakily decent perimeter group if the bigs provide enough. And I'm excited for LeBlanc to come in and provide defense at least. But I just really want to see a center who can own the paint defensively. And if Patrick, of all people, can't recruit that, we're in trouble.
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Massholya
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Post by Massholya on Jan 3, 2018 11:45:08 GMT -5
One thing I’ve noticed defensively is that we seem to be doing a much better job of scouting other teams and identifying other players tendencies. More than I can ever remember guys/guards are hopping to one side of the screen to make guys go the way they don’t want to go. In the past we just stood there flat footed waiting to get picked off by screen and then trying to fight through. Now we seem to better identify the pick coming and counter it to the preferred side. Kaleb in particular was giving Strus a very hard time. That guy had to make some very difficult shots to get his points last night. I find this development very encouraging.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 12:28:38 GMT -5
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 3, 2018 12:29:40 GMT -5
I would like to see us close out on shooters without running past them. We started the season doing that and it lapsed last night. MD did it at the end of the game and the kid followed his shot up for a lay-up. The number of times you will block a shot verses getting the blockout and board is a lottery shot.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Jan 3, 2018 13:08:31 GMT -5
Enjoyable game because we won. Really liked how Kaleb came back into the game with 10 minutes to go and shut down Strus, who was really having his way before that. Marcus and Jesse continue playing well and gotta hope Blair can continue making threes.
One thing that was a bit odd, was the fact that Depaul did not seem to be much less talented than the Hoyas. In past years when we lost to them (not often) we were much more talented, but just sucked in the game.
Finally, love how Patrick instantly grabs a player and makes sure he understands exactly what he did wrong. I have a feeling he is going to be a very good coach...just needs some talent. Love these guys...but we are very low on talent right now..obviously.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 3, 2018 13:12:38 GMT -5
I haven't posted for a while, but I have watched the Syracuse, Butler and DePaul games. I missed Marquette but also half watched the creampuffs. I think. Either way, here are some positive and negative thoughts: - I think the major concern I have with the offense that Patrick is running is that it is fundamentally a pro offense. We need players to can run it. Some of it simply gets easier against college players, but early only we ran a back screen for Blair, had him pop out and catch, turn and take a three -- which he nailed. But that's something I wonder if college players can hit at the rate Klay Thompson can hit at.
- The more general concern I have is that I was hoping to see that this team is clearly outperforming their talent. They aren't yet; there's no Pitt game to say that we have something in this coach. There's plenty of time for that, but I was hoping to see more signs by now. Especially since next year's class is fine, but hardly amazing.
- Then again, this team probably only has one loss if we simply had a replacement for Pickett. I see the potential, but he's been horrifically bad. Just finding a mediocre player to take his place and we have wins versus Butler and Syracuse. I can take the poor three point shooting. But the 5 turnovers a game for the amount that he handles the ball is like giving your opponents a five point lead. Peak leaving hurt us because Peak was good, but also because Pickett is not, at all.
- Contrastingly, I'm loving Jahvon Blair. This team is full of terrible decision makers -- Mulmore, Dickerson and Pickett are hyper aggressive and attack way too often when there's nothing there. Govan and Dickerson are way too slow to recognize double teams and pass out, though they are much better at being aggressive with the shot in face up situations. Mosely and Kaleb are too tentative, even on ball rotations but definitely on attacking. But Blair simply has a great combination of scoring mentality but the instinctual craftiness to understand that he might have to take a pull up here or there or cut off a drive. He's going to score 15+ for one or two years here at Georgetown.
I also reacted to the play called for Blair, but I had a slightly different take. We haven't called a bunch of those, and so I think his calling it here was a recognition that he has a guy that can make them. (And, not for nothing, he obviously did make it, although success on that specific shot isn't really the point.) So...to me it was instructive and encouraging that he's willing to work on and integrate different things to maximize players' strengths. Jesse and Marcus in the game together? Lots of high-low action or two-man game stuff with those two on the same side. Blair in the game? Maybe try to work him open for a couple attempts. In general, I agree with you both on Blair and Pickett. I wouldn't mind seeing some more Blair and a bit less Dickerson/Mulmore, although there may be reasons on the other end that doesn't make perfect sense. Against the 2-3, he's running a bunch of different stuff. But one that I've seen that I haven't really seen run quite this way ever before is when both Jesse and Marcus flash to the elbows (almost like a horns set against a man) and whoever doesn't get it either drops low for the high-low seal-off or flashes out to the opposite wing for a shot. Pretty unusual and creative against a zone.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 3, 2018 14:02:39 GMT -5
Good take -- I always enjoy your analysis, aleutian.
I am hopeful.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jan 3, 2018 14:55:26 GMT -5
Jessie remained #3 in the nation in rebounding; this game doesn't hurt this. Doc is in the top 25 (tied for 23) in FT%. This game probably moves him up a bit. Players hitting their FTs at a remarkable rate with 32 with FT% at 90% or above (Marcus was 90.9% coming in). Jessie remains #3 after the game, but Marcus moves to #16 in FT% with a 92.3% rate.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jan 3, 2018 17:55:19 GMT -5
SF, I find myself agreeing with most of your observations but not sharing your concern. I don't think the point of Ewing's system is to make a sparsely-talented team play beyond its talent. I think it's designed to make a talented team beat other talented teams most of the time. I'm not sure what that level of talent is exactly, and we will see if we can get there, but like you said, we're getting good shots and good opportunities.
Again, if Ewing were established and this were a "down year" I could see him tweaking things. But this entire year is an ad to recruits for the new philosophy of Georgetown Basketball.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 3, 2018 19:12:53 GMT -5
SF, I find myself agreeing with most of your observations but not sharing your concern. I don't think the point of Ewing's system is to make a sparsely-talented team play beyond its talent. I think it's designed to make a talented team beat other talented teams most of the time. I'm not sure what that level of talent is exactly, and we will see if we can get there, but like you said, we're getting good shots and good opportunities. Again, if Ewing were established and this were a "down year" I could see him tweaking things. But this entire year is an ad to recruits for the new philosophy of Georgetown Basketball. I get what you are saying, but I think a poor record makes that ad worse in most recruits' eyes. I have no particular criticism of Ewing's actual system on offense. On defense, I am most befuddled by how his rim protectors play. But I also think long term successful coaches are able to get a team to play above its talent, and I doubt Ewing is intentionally walking from that.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 3, 2018 19:24:51 GMT -5
SF - who on this team do you really think is a "rim protector"? You know as well as the rest of us that neither Marcus nor Jessie can play that role - although Govan's defense has definitely improved, more body control = less fouling, with a few blocks or alters thrown in.
Things will look different when Patrick is able to bring in some true protectors.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 3, 2018 20:12:55 GMT -5
SF - who on this team do you really think is a "rim protector"? You know as well as the rest of us that neither Marcus nor Jessie can play that role - although Govan's defense has definitely improved, more body control = less fouling, with a few blocks or alters thrown in. Things will look different when Patrick is able to bring in some true protectors. That's certainly an argument -- that basically Patrick has told them not to help defend the rim at all to avoid foul trouble and just give up the layup. It's tough to know because that's not a conventional move. You are right that neither is any good at it, but the weirdness I am seeing if that neither actually tried. Hell, for much of the game Derrickson was basically camped 3/4ers of the way up the key, patrolling. And when someone drove the lane, he'd get out of the way and box out for the rebound. Or simply not move. Of course, this is not something that Ewing can openly admit to or every opponent will abuse it, but I'm not sure it's intentional. Ideally, he teaches them to contest without fouling, not simply to not contest. Which is what Derrickson in particular is doing. Both have been competent on ball, but MD in particular is relatively useless helping.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 3, 2018 20:25:48 GMT -5
SF - who on this team do you really think is a "rim protector"? You know as well as the rest of us that neither Marcus nor Jessie can play that role - although Govan's defense has definitely improved, more body control = less fouling, with a few blocks or alters thrown in. Things will look different when Patrick is able to bring in some true protectors. That's certainly an argument -- that basically Patrick has told them not to help defend the rim at all to avoid foul trouble and just give up the layup. It's tough to know because that's not a conventional move. You are right that neither is any good at it, but the weirdness I am seeing if that neither actually tried. Hell, for much of the game Derrickson was basically camped 3/4ers of the way up the key, patrolling. And when someone drove the lane, he'd get out of the way and box out for the rebound. Or simply not move. Of course, this is not something that Ewing can openly admit to or every opponent will abuse it, but I'm not sure it's intentional. Ideally, he teaches them to contest without fouling, not simply to not contest. Which is what Derrickson in particular is doing. Both have been competent on ball, but MD in particular is relatively useless helping. I think Govan's rim protection has improved tremendously compared to last season. He's never going to be elite at it but he's actually protecting the paint at this college level this year whereas last year he offered no rim protection. I also see alot of improvement in his shot blocking technique. And seems to me like Coach Ewing is teaching him the secrets and tricks of the trade.
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Post by upstatesaxa on Jan 3, 2018 21:28:14 GMT -5
Not sure how much we can use the press yet. Everybody has to work together, and with our youth it will take time. Best for now to spring it and try to catch the opponent off guard. But we do have some length, so with more practice it can become a weapon. Oh, I agree. I wouldn't turn into WVA or anything. But it got a bit predictable in terms of when and how by the end. I'd just mix it up a bit. I think they only beat it for a hoop/foul once or maybe twice. Love to see it but wonder if roster is deep enough to pull it off. Even losing Sodom hurts here because he could have spelled front court guys and rim protected on press
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Jan 3, 2018 21:41:50 GMT -5
Oh, I agree. I wouldn't turn into WVA or anything. But it got a bit predictable in terms of when and how by the end. I'd just mix it up a bit. I think they only beat it for a hoop/foul once or maybe twice. Love to see it but wonder if roster is deep enough to pull it off. Even losing Sodom hurts here because he could have spelled front court guys and rim protected on press Govan has been blocking shots and is a more than adequate rim protector this year. MD has become a very good college player, but I’m not sure he can rise above the rim.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 21:55:00 GMT -5
Love to see it but wonder if roster is deep enough to pull it off. Even losing Sodom hurts here because he could have spelled front court guys and rim protected on press Govan has been blocking shots and is a more than adequate rim protector this year. MD has become a very good college player, but I’m not sure he can rise above the rim. Jessie is a very talented offensive center, but he's a less than adequate rim protector. He's played nearly 3 full games in Big East play (110 minutes) and he has 1 block. His overall block numbers this year are the lowest of his career, and that's after 10 cupcakes. I get that he's gotta limit the aggressiveness somewhat with our lack of depth, but he's just not a natural defender.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 3, 2018 22:19:54 GMT -5
I would rather have him not foul and stay in games. If he gets into early foul trouble, it's game over.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 3, 2018 23:34:35 GMT -5
Love to see it but wonder if roster is deep enough to pull it off. Even losing Sodom hurts here because he could have spelled front court guys and rim protected on press Govan has been blocking shots and is a more than adequate rim protector this year. MD has become a very good college player, but I’m not sure he can rise above the rim. Both he and Marcus' on ball defense has really improved, but the help defense is pretty awful. Govan definitely >>> MD, but there's a difference between blocks on your guy and protecting the rim on players that get past their guy.
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s4hoyas
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Post by s4hoyas on Jan 4, 2018 10:10:21 GMT -5
Agree...when Patrick played, layups were not allowed...now, too often, when a player gets by his man and into the paint, our defenders allow way too many uncontested layups...this is particularly troublesome when we have a lead late...its almost as if in that situation when we score we think its ok to allow the opponent to score...in this case late in games, I'd move Derrickson into the defensive pivot (assuming he's not in foul trouble) because he's better at taking charges and getting into better position to defend these layups...I'm not sure I've ever seen Jesse take a charge and he's a better weak side shot blocker...(note: Jesse has been playing very well, but when I see him take a charge I'll know that real progress on the D end is happening)...
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