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Post by whatrocks33 on Dec 28, 2017 15:21:29 GMT -5
I don't think Pickett or Kaleb are forwards in the traditional sense, but we need to find a way to play stretches with one big (i.e. Govan or Derrickson with the other resting) and multiple guards. Our best lineup features both MD and Govan, but it was clear we relied too much on those guys early and they couldn't give us the same quality play late in the game. Those two are as talented a duo in the front court you'll find in CBB this year, but there is literally no depth. Walker hasn't shown he can give us more than 5 minutes a game yet, so we'll have to play small to get our bigs some rest.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Dec 28, 2017 15:29:21 GMT -5
Hard to envision Campbell being any better than what we have now. We saw 2.5 seasons of Campbell, and other than one miraculous night against Xavier, there was little evidence he could be any kind of difference making player. I strongly believe the mis-evaluation/recruiting of Tre Campbell was a big part of the beginning of the end for JT3. He just completely botched that one and we've been paying for it for several years. Agree 100%. One ongoing issue I had with JT3 was the amount of pressure he placed on his guards to develop, usually without any back up and without much room for error (and we saw what happened when our PG broke his hand). TC didn't work out in part because of (presumably unforeseeable) medical issues -- and no one on the roster was available to back him up. And, JT3 could have recruited them, and just didn't. It slayed me to see mid-major teams with better point guards than ours. (One of them would come to play for the Hoyas, if only he were asked to. Right?) I am glad that's behind us. In all of this hand wringing, no one has said that PE doesn't value the guard position. He just doesn't have experienced guards. They will all grow together.
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jester
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,006
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Post by jester on Dec 28, 2017 15:39:40 GMT -5
Glide: You've posted 14 times in 29 minutes. Try to avoid separate responses to each post. Just explain or show me how I can do this. I don't want people think I'm intentionally doing something wrong or inconsiderate. That's not me. Thanks. Glide - just to chime in here, I don't mind posting reactions in game as its in the moment, but if its reactions other's analysis, I would condense those in a few posts (ie, an analysis after game, a few in the couple of hours after in reactions to others comments (combined), then the next day). I agree its a little hard to scroll through what you think are others takes on the game and find its the same poster, sometimes hammering home the same point repeatedly in reactions to other's claim for a better PG. You can also quote several posters and react to their posts in one post rather than individually. 14 per 29min seems extreme, I know its not you trying to be inconsiderate
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,419
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Post by the_way on Dec 28, 2017 15:45:40 GMT -5
III knew Princeton and nothing else. He played there and coached there only before coming here. He could never evolve. That was his undoing.
Lack of guards and lack of recruiting/evaluating them were troublesome. Guard-play is a vital component in college basketball especially.
III just never got it.
It was bigger than Tre Campbell. It is bigger than a true point guard.
It is basketball. Systems are great and all, as well as "true" position players. At the end of the day, with basketball, it's give it to your best players in crunch time and get out of their way. That is what Butler did last night,and what we couldn't do.
With big men and big forwards/wings, it makes it difficult because someone has to get them the ball.
With guards, they can create/facilitate/finish themselves.
III just never understood this. He thought centers and 6-8 long forwards (Hollis Thompson, Porter, Whittington, White, Summers, Copeland, etc ) were the way to go. And that is all he needed. It is why mid-major team backcourts in the tournament would outclass us.
You need guards who just don't do one thing too. His best combination was DSR-Starks. Either one could switch from PG to 2G with ease. Why he never picked up on this and tried to expand his recruiting to this mode we'll never know.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 28, 2017 16:02:01 GMT -5
Old dog, new tricks issue. Porter and Green were versatile enough to get you buckets when needed. Govan and Derrickson need to be fed. Pat will have the required horses, but it may take another recruiting class or two.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 28, 2017 16:07:50 GMT -5
Glide: You've posted 14 times in 29 minutes. Try to avoid separate responses to each post. His per 48 minutes stats are off the charts! Lebron James level. Sign him up!
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,421
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Dec 28, 2017 17:26:20 GMT -5
I know a lot more about the game than yesterday, so I am frustrated that we lost a 20 point lead (as we lost a 13 point, 2nd half lead against the cuse). We have to learn to close out games. It seems any lead is not secure, so we should play not to lose, but to win (easier said than done). Maybe we can learn something from our two loses; I surely hope so.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 17:56:34 GMT -5
If the Hoyas would've attacked more they wouldn't have had 20 or 21 turnovers. Shot too many 3's.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 17:58:29 GMT -5
Hard to envision Campbell being any better than what we have now. We saw 2.5 seasons of Campbell, and other than one miraculous night against Xavier, there was little evidence he could be any kind of difference making player. I strongly believe the mis-evaluation/recruiting of Tre Campbell was a big part of the beginning of the end for JT3. He just completely botched that one and we've been paying for it for several years. I disagree. Not get the true point guard all Conference USA, all freshman team Daquan was the big part of the end for JTIII. No disrespect to III. #fact
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,378
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Post by drquigley on Dec 28, 2017 17:59:55 GMT -5
Hey Hoya fans lighten up! Six months ago we would have been deliriously happy if we thought we would compete with Syracuse and Butler and not lose to one of the cupcakes. A few breaks (and better guard play) and we're 12-0. Sure it took me a day to get the bad taste of last nights game out of my mouth but let's remember where we came from and how far we have to go. Let's enjoy the ride and keep our hopes up.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 17:59:58 GMT -5
I know a lot more about the game than yesterday, so I am frustrated that we lost a 20 point lead (as we lost a 13 point, 2nd half lead against the cuse). We have to learn to close out games. It seems any lead is not secure, so we should play not to lose, but to win (easier said than done). Maybe we can learn something from our two loses; I surely hope so. Yes, this is what happens when you don't attack the basket and look into the post to deliver. You play around with the ball, then you turn it over.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 18:00:58 GMT -5
Glide: You've posted 14 times in 29 minutes. Try to avoid separate responses to each post. His per 48 minutes stats are off the charts! Lebron James level. Sign him up! Signed, sealed and will always deliver! LMAO!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 18:02:09 GMT -5
Old dog, new tricks issue. Porter and Green were versatile enough to get you buckets when needed. Govan and Derrickson need to be fed. Pat will have the required horses, but it may take another recruiting class or two. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSIR!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 18:05:02 GMT -5
III knew Princeton and nothing else. He played there and coached there only before coming here. He could never evolve. That was his undoing. Lack of guards and lack of recruiting/evaluating them were troublesome. Guard-play is a vital component in college basketball especially. III just never got it. It was bigger than Tre Campbell. It is bigger than a true point guard. It is basketball. Systems are great and all, as well as "true" position players. At the end of the day, with basketball, it's give it to your best players in crunch time and get out of their way. That is what Butler did last night,and what we couldn't do. With big men and big forwards/wings, it makes it difficult because someone has to get them the ball. With guards, they can create/facilitate/finish themselves. III just never understood this. He thought centers and 6-8 long forwards (Hollis Thompson, Porter, Whittington, White, Summers, Copeland, etc ) were the way to go. And that is all he needed. It is why mid-major team backcourts in the tournament would outclass us. You need guards who just don't do one thing too. His best combination was DSR-Starks. Either one could switch from PG to 2G with ease. Why he never picked up on this and tried to expand his recruiting to this mode we'll never know. Also in III's mind his Georgetown offense didn't require a true point guard, but like I always said every team from the youth level on up to the NBA you need a floor general. III did eventually get it. He went out and recruited the true point guard Tremont Waters, remember? But it was too late. Our fans chased him away. DSR was selfish a lot of the time, but at times when he focused on passing the Hoyas did well. Starks was sort of a point guard, but more of a shooting pg.
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Post by bornhoya on Dec 28, 2017 18:10:05 GMT -5
Being a former college point guard I think we’re giving Mulmore to much blame. Some of it he does to hisself like picking up dumb so that he can’t be aggressive on D in the second half. Against Butler you kinda couldn’t blame him the kid got hot and Widman was setting double screens that’s why I think he started going under them. On offense it seems like he’s playing timid and so is Johnson now in my opinion like there scared to make a mistake cause there scared there going to get taken out that’s why he’s a step slow on his drives. It also seems like Ewing is calling his offensive sets late which ls leaving Mulmore with the ball in his hands with the clock running down which Is definitely not his strong suit. At the end of the game it seemed like our zone offense had all the perimeter players to close together with no spacing so you really didn’t have a angle to get it inside that’s why Jagen needed to be in the game cause he usually either drives the gaps or keeps the ball swinging which you couldn’t do with the freshman cause they were being ball stoppers
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 18:16:16 GMT -5
Just explain or show me how I can do this. I don't want people think I'm intentionally doing something wrong or inconsiderate. That's not me. Thanks. Glide - just to chime in here, I don't mind posting reactions in game as its in the moment, but if its reactions other's analysis, I would condense those in a few posts (ie, an analysis after game, a few in the couple of hours after in reactions to others comments (combined), then the next day). I agree its a little hard to scroll through what you think are others takes on the game and find its the same poster, sometimes hammering home the same point repeatedly in reactions to other's claim for a better PG. You can also quote several posters and react to their posts in one post rather than individually. 14 per 29min seems extreme, I know its not you trying to be inconsiderate What the difference? I can't respond to individual posts? I mean I don't give a cahoot who posts or how many times one posts whatever. Man, I'm on my own time. Now ya'll trying to tell me how to post lol. Damn. You damn right I'ma always hammer down point guard play because that's what I do. Respect it. JTIII respected and finally went out and got one. And mostly everyone else on the Hilltop. Morgan Wooten, Stu Vetter, JTIII, Karl Hobbs, Bonzie Colson, Tom Penders are just a few I've learned the game from. Respect this here. I talk basketball, and sometimes about some of your heads. I never freaking timed myself on responding to other fans comments. This just sounds freaking ridiculous if you ask me. Who in the hell is counting seem like BS. I thumbs up a heck of a lot posts in here everyday, so what are you saying. Take notice. Now chime out. lol
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 18:18:16 GMT -5
Being a former college point guard I think we’re giving Mulmore to much blame. Some of it he does to hisself like picking up dumb so that he can’t be aggressive on D in the second half. Against Butler you kinda couldn’t blame him the kid got hot and Widman was setting double screens that’s why I think he started going under them. On offense it seems like he’s playing timid and so is Johnson now in my opinion like there scared to make a mistake cause there scared there going to get taken out that’s why he’s a step slow on his drives. It also seems like Ewing is calling his offensive sets late which ls leaving Mulmore with the ball in his hands with the clock running down which Is definitely not his strong suit. At the end of the game it seemed like our zone offense had all the perimeter players to close together with no spacing so you really didn’t have a angle to get it inside that’s why Jagen needed to be in the game cause he usually either drives the gaps or keeps the ball swinging which you couldn’t do with the freshman cause they were being ball stoppers How is this. He's the leading guard out there. I can count on 10 fingers how many times Jessie was open and he didn't feed or JG didn't get any touches. I was Editededdddddddddddddddd. He could've stepped over and took a charge on Martin with 2.6 left on the clock. Go and watch it.
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SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,327
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 28, 2017 18:26:32 GMT -5
No one "chased Tremont Waters away". Waters was attracted to the Hilltop with promises of an uptempo offense built around him, but over the course of last season saw the deterioration of JTIII's Hoyas and was spooked. Although fans were calling for JTIII's head, I can't recall a single post here or on Casual criticizing Waters (outside of criticizing his eventual decision to decommit). If anything, the offense that Ewing has instituted is much more suited to Waters than anything that came before. Its unfortunate that Waters chose to move on instead of giving Ewing a chance (this team with Waters as PG would be 12-0), but he did.
Ewing is clearly looking to bring in a PG or PGs in that mold, but this year really has no other options but Mulmore and Dickerson.
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Post by bornhoya on Dec 28, 2017 18:26:54 GMT -5
Being a former college point guard I think we’re giving Mulmore to much blame. Some of it he does to hisself like picking up dumb so that he can’t be aggressive on D in the second half. Against Butler you kinda couldn’t blame him the kid got hot and Widman was setting double screens that’s why I think he started going under them. On offense it seems like he’s playing timid and so is Johnson now in my opinion like there scared to make a mistake cause there scared there going to get taken out that’s why he’s a step slow on his drives. It also seems like Ewing is calling his offensive sets late which ls leaving Mulmore with the ball in his hands with the clock running down which Is definitely not his strong suit. At the end of the game it seemed like our zone offense had all the perimeter players to close together with no spacing so you really didn’t have a angle to get it inside that’s why Jagen needed to be in the game cause he usually either drives the gaps or keeps the ball swinging which you couldn’t do with the freshman cause they were being ball stoppers How is this. He's the leading guard out there. I can on 10 fingers how many times Jessie was open and he didn't feed or JG didn't get any touches. I was Editededdddddddddddddddd. He could've stepped over and took a charge on Martin with 2.6 left on the clock. Go and watch it. if he would have gave it to Jessie they would have doubled him immediately cause there wasn’t any spacing on the perimeter. They needed to go high low with the two bigs
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71hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 498
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Post by 71hoya on Dec 28, 2017 18:38:30 GMT -5
If the Hoyas would've attacked more they wouldn't have had 20 or 21 turnovers. Shot too many 3's. I disagree. The problem is they did not make enough of the threes. And sadly it seems we don’t have talent to do that consistently. But basketball is all about the three now a days.
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