guru
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Post by guru on Dec 28, 2017 11:08:58 GMT -5
Can't blame the coach for not having above average results from a below average team. Let's be realistic, we were picked to finish 9/10 for a reason. The team is playing much better than I expected and is fun to watch. Govan and Derrickson have flourished. Losing these types of leads definitely calls into question the coaching decisions being made. Ewing is still learning, and has a long, long way to go.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 28, 2017 11:14:33 GMT -5
Can't blame the coach for not having above average results from a below average team. Let's be realistic, we were picked to finish 9/10 for a reason. The team is playing much better than I expected and is fun to watch. Govan and Derrickson have flourished. Understand your position, but my reaction is that the two games that have been lost were not to exceptional teams that required above average results. They were, in fact, very comparable to the Hoyas in talent, while perhaps having better guards and worse posts. I am not expecting miracles this year, but a 13 point and 18 point lead in the second half on the home court, should be sustainable against two teams like Butler and Syracuse. I do think that the board needs to accept that Ewing is going to require growing pains as well, and I am not killing him for decisions I disagreed with, but if the fans are going to blame the players for their play it is fair to recognize that Ewing could have tried other options in both losses. Clearly it is a flawed team, particularly on the perimeter, but even with those flaws, both losses should have been wins. That cannot be attributed to a lack of talent, just part of the growing pains on the court and on the bench.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 11:21:31 GMT -5
Can't blame the coach for not having above average results from a below average team. Let's be realistic, we were picked to finish 9/10 for a reason. The team is playing much better than I expected and is fun to watch. Govan and Derrickson have flourished. Losing these types of leads definitely calls into question the coaching decisions being made. Ewing is still learning, and has a long, long way to go. Keeping it real! Respect. Nothing wrong with this. Coaches and players can only learn from their mistakes. It's life.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 11:22:35 GMT -5
And then there's this... this response was great!!!
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 28, 2017 11:22:57 GMT -5
Love what Govan is giving us this year but he was gassed at the end of the game. We need to get him a bit more rest. If Pat is willing to let Freshman make mistakes, let Walker get some PT and rest both Govan and Doc in the first. Most of my other points have been hammered home but we need our guards to feed the post first thing. In second OT, there was a time that Jessie was wide open at the FT line, begging for the ball, while the guards were passing the ball around; that shouldn't happen. Yes he was exhausted but get him the ball in space and let him work. I would like to see him out on the perimeter more to take a few 3s but seems like Pat doesn't want that to happen. We definitely need more Jagan; yeah his shooting isn't great but he does get hot at times. His effort, passing, driving, and ball care more then makes up for any shooting weaknesses. Blair and Pickett will grow and these were definitely growing pains. I'm happy for it to happen for the futures sake but this game would have been over in regulation of Pat would have reigned them in and coached them a bit more on the bench. Love Kaleb's improvement but at this point he needs to be a garbage pail 6th man type until his shot returns. This was a game we should have won but it still makes me feel good, we will be competitive in BE play this year and have a chance to end up better then where we were voted preseason.
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Post by centercourt400s on Dec 28, 2017 11:29:37 GMT -5
Glide - I love your enthusiasm but the problem is that with the volume you are posting at it becomes very difficult to read through these threads because it is all about you and your opinions. What makes Hoyatalk interesting is getting to read a variety of opinions and viewpoints. Right now you are just dominating everything and really degrading the experience. Please consider the experience of others when you post. Not asking you to stop, just please tone it down a bit, ok? No, you're assuming it's all about me, it's what you people always do, "ASSUME" instead of ask. I never knew there was a problem with me responding to peoples comments. SO, what don't you ask instead of assume next time? I know what makes Hoyatalk interesting, people's comments, questions and answers, duhhhh. Dominating??? Did you ever ask me was I "intentionally" doing this. Have you given me ways to help me instead of ASSUME? Degrading? Is is it jealousy or hate? Which one? Fans that truly know me and people who truly know, know my heart. The know how considerate, thoughtful and respectful I am. Some of you don't even know me, but take shots at me behind a keyboard. Is it because of my skin color. I'm asking instead of assuming. Tone down??? No, it's not okay!!! It's BS. I can't help if I know my stuff. Stop the hate and assumptions and ask questions first. I can't win from losing on this board. Some of the worst fans in the world lie in here. I love reading the comments and responding to them. I thumbs up on most posts I like, is my thumbs on most posts here bothering you as well? smh Grow up! I wish could the kid, who as I was leaving the arena last didn't have a Ewing bobble head I gave him my bobble just to see his eyes light up. To know me is to love me. To hate me ...well I'll let you figure that one out. #donthatetheplay #icantbreathe I did my best to point out to you in a respectful way that your volume of posts is a problem right now for the board in general. Others have said the same, including the mods. Please take the advice and consider the experience of others who are part of this community. Thanks.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 28, 2017 11:31:05 GMT -5
If you play a tougher schedule and compound losses, that doesn't help confidence either. We are a few bounces away from being 12-0 and nationally ranked. Pickett, Blair, Mosely and Walker will be solid upperclassmen. The '18 recruits look solid. A few more pieces and we can climb to the top half of the conference. Mac is a solid start, but we need another heady playmaker. You checked our RPI? Even with the wins we wouldn't be close to "ranked". Guess what we didn't get those wins either. Anyways so I guess the season is over now because the guys lost 2 of 4 to decent teams. Confidence is shot! That's the theory right?
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 28, 2017 11:35:20 GMT -5
Can't blame the coach for not having above average results from a below average team. Let's be realistic, we were picked to finish 9/10 for a reason. The team is playing much better than I expected and is fun to watch. Govan and Derrickson have flourished. Whatever you do don't look at our guys recruiting rankings compared to the other average BE teams. You will be greatly disappointed to find that we aren't as talent deficient as everyone is making it out to be. What we have been is coaching deficient. As I said earlier I am in no way writing Pat off but the last few season have been on JT3 and now Pat and not the talent level of the players.
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 28, 2017 11:37:02 GMT -5
Can't blame the coach for not having above average results from a below average team. Let's be realistic, we were picked to finish 9/10 for a reason. The team is playing much better than I expected and is fun to watch. Govan and Derrickson have flourished. Whatever you do don't look at our guys recruiting rankings compared to the other average BE teams. You will be greatly disappointed to find that we aren't as talent deficient as everyone is making it out to be. What we have been is coaching deficient. As I said earlier I am in no way writing Pat off but the last few season have been on JT3 and now Pat and not the talent level of the players. This is true
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Dec 28, 2017 11:46:31 GMT -5
Hey,,the guys on this team are either inherited or last second recruiting pickups by Pat. Further, he has never coached players at this talent level. While he has coached up some 19 and 20 year olds , they were extremely talented young guys who made NBA teams at that age. Further he probably never even PLAYED with guys at this talent level...he certainly didn't at Georgetown in the mid 80's.
So, he will have a learning curve in how to deal with these guys. I am not an apologist by nature...I had certainly seen enough of JT3 by last year to want a new coach, a new voice for the program. Its definitely fair to criticize Pat's in game decisions..but I do not think its fair to make any conclusions whatsoever regarding his ability to coach at the college level. In my mind, he needs at least a year or more. JMO.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 28, 2017 12:01:41 GMT -5
While we may have comparable rankings to our Big East brethren, our roster is unbalanced. Govan and Derrickson are our best players, but need to be fed the ball. Pickett and Blair are freshmen. Most importantly, we don't have a single guard to trust the ball with in end of game situations to get us a bucket. Like others have alluded, if we had a PG half as good as Waters we would be undefeated and vying for an NCAA birth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 12:35:28 GMT -5
Can't blame the coach for not having above average results from a below average team. Let's be realistic, we were picked to finish 9/10 for a reason. The team is playing much better than I expected and is fun to watch. Govan and Derrickson have flourished. Whatever you do don't look at our guys recruiting rankings compared to the other average BE teams. You will be greatly disappointed to find that we aren't as talent deficient as everyone is making it out to be. What we have been is coaching deficient. As I said earlier I am in no way writing Pat off but the last few season have been on JT3 and now Pat and not the talent level of the players. Problem is none of those players are ball handling guards and guards dominate College B-ball... Last top 100 PG we recruited successfully was Markel Starks.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Dec 28, 2017 12:53:25 GMT -5
I'd forgotten a bit about Mulmore (i.e., alleged strengths and weaknesses) since his recruitment, but it's becoming apparent that the linked article was pretty perceptive. Can't help wondering if Tre would have helped our PG issues. Water over the damn, I suppose.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 28, 2017 13:03:06 GMT -5
Whatever you do don't look at our guys recruiting rankings compared to the other average BE teams. You will be greatly disappointed to find that we aren't as talent deficient as everyone is making it out to be. What we have been is coaching deficient. As I said earlier I am in no way writing Pat off but the last few season have been on JT3 and now Pat and not the talent level of the players. Problem is none of those players are ball handling guards and guards dominate College B-ball... Last top 100 PG we recruited successfully was Markel Starks. And we don't even have experienced lower-ranked guards. Mulmore and Mosely were the only two guards on the team when Pat took over. This isn't some small re-tooling needed on this roster. If we hit a home run and land Anthony, great but if not we need to be on as many lead guards as possible to stay and develop.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Dec 28, 2017 14:20:42 GMT -5
But what is the point being made? Are we supposed to be impressed with the amazing success Butler, Marquette and Creighton are getting out of their teams? Please. They ain’t much better than us. Didn’t we beat all 3 last year?
Personally, I don’t think we are that far from being the 4th best BE team. But, long term, we need to find a way to be Xavier-Nova like. If not, meh.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Dec 28, 2017 14:32:29 GMT -5
Can't blame the coach for not having above average results from a below average team. Let's be realistic, we were picked to finish 9/10 for a reason. The team is playing much better than I expected and is fun to watch. Govan and Derrickson have flourished. Whatever you do don't look at our guys recruiting rankings compared to the other average BE teams. You will be greatly disappointed to find that we aren't as talent deficient as everyone is making it out to be. What we have been is coaching deficient. As I said earlier I am in no way writing Pat off but the last few season have been on JT3 and now Pat and not the talent level of the players. The talent level of our guards is way below Big East average level. This is what is killing us. Until we get a couple of guards who can create off the dribble, we'll have these problems. Blair may grow into that kind of player, but nobody else on the roster is able to consistently break their man down in the half court and finish/find an open man for an easy look. Butler had two guys doing this repeatedly in the second half last night, we did not. Guess which team won? The future of the program is largely dependent on Ewing's ability to recruit these kind of guards.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Dec 28, 2017 14:34:12 GMT -5
I'd forgotten a bit about Mulmore (i.e., alleged strengths and weaknesses) since his recruitment, but it's becoming apparent that the linked article was pretty perceptive. Can't help wondering if Tre would have helped our PG issues. Water over the damn, I suppose. Hard to envision Campbell being any better than what we have now. We saw 2.5 seasons of Campbell, and other than one miraculous night against Xavier, there was little evidence he could be any kind of difference making player.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Dec 28, 2017 14:39:33 GMT -5
Glide: You've posted 14 times in 29 minutes. Try to avoid separate responses to each post. Just explain or show me how I can do this. I don't want people think I'm intentionally doing something wrong or inconsiderate. That's not me. Thanks.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 28, 2017 14:57:14 GMT -5
Love what Govan is giving us this year but he was gassed at the end of the game. We need to get him a bit more rest. If Pat is willing to let Freshman make mistakes, let Walker get some PT and rest both Govan and Doc in the first. Most of my other points have been hammered home but we need our guards to feed the post first thing. In second OT, there was a time that Jessie was wide open at the FT line, begging for the ball, while the guards were passing the ball around; that shouldn't happen. Yes he was exhausted but get him the ball in space and let him work. I would like to see him out on the perimeter more to take a few 3s but seems like Pat doesn't want that to happen. We definitely need more Jagan; yeah his shooting isn't great but he does get hot at times. His effort, passing, driving, and ball care more then makes up for any shooting weaknesses. Blair and Pickett will grow and these were definitely growing pains. I'm happy for it to happen for the futures sake but this game would have been over in regulation of Pat would have reigned them in and coached them a bit more on the bench. Love Kaleb's improvement but at this point he needs to be a garbage pail 6th man type until his shot returns. This was a game we should have won but it still makes me feel good, we will be competitive in BE play this year and have a chance to end up better then where we were voted preseason. Agree with your assessment about letting Walker get minutes to give Govan and Derrickson a break so that they are fresher down the stretch. Walker has shown on film to be an aggressive rebounder, very good finisher around the basket, plays with a ton of energy and out of the freshman he's the only One with understanding of half court defensive principles. McDermott did nothing last night except focus on the glass and we see how effective he was. Same goes for Matthew Moyer in the Syracuse game. I like how Coach Ewing has reined Walker in forcing him to focus on specific aspects of the game. I think Ewing should have done the same with Pickett and Blair as they have developed some terrible habits that Coach Ewing has to get under control. Govan or Derrickson have to touch the ball on every possession to make the defense move or rotate. Whether it's in the pick and roll or the high/low post they have to the touch the ball on every half court possession. That's not on Coach Ewing as he's constantly yelling and demanding the players to get the ball inside. I agree with you regarding Jagan Mosely needing more time especially down the stretch. He's a very smart and selective shooter. Doesn't hunt or force shots, very good passer and rebounder and is a very good and consistent on the defensive end. His tendency is to try to get the ball inside and only takes wide open shots. I think Kaleb is getting a lot of unnecessary blame for yesterday's game. He picked up 2 very quick fouls at the beginning of the game one trying to cover a Pickett defensive mistake. He then quickly picked up his 3rd foul early in the 2nd half. When that happens it's hard to continue playing aggressively. I thought he played well especially on the glass in spite of the early foul trouble.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 28, 2017 15:13:14 GMT -5
I'd forgotten a bit about Mulmore (i.e., alleged strengths and weaknesses) since his recruitment, but it's becoming apparent that the linked article was pretty perceptive. Can't help wondering if Tre would have helped our PG issues. Water over the damn, I suppose. Hard to envision Campbell being any better than what we have now. We saw 2.5 seasons of Campbell, and other than one miraculous night against Xavier, there was little evidence he could be any kind of difference making player. I strongly believe the mis-evaluation/recruiting of Tre Campbell was a big part of the beginning of the end for JT3. He just completely botched that one and we've been paying for it for several years.
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