the_way
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Post by the_way on Jun 16, 2005 15:05:32 GMT -5
Wilson, with all due respect. I didn't mean to strike a nerve with you, but you have failed to see my point. My point was not that Baltimore is GU country. We are talking about recruiting, and the fact that GU landed Summers, which it was brought up that is Terp country for recruits. What I said, you can refer to my earlier post, that around the time Wingate and Williams came to GU, 82 and 83 respectively, GU was very popular in Baltimore. Bob Wade had a lot to do with this as well because his problems with Lefty. The Terps have always had a problem getting Baltimore players starting during the early 80's and then after the Bob Wade fiasco, it was extermely hard. It took Gary Williams going hard at recruiting Keith Booth It was a huge stepping stone for Gary because B'more city did not look at Maryland too kindly.
My whole point is that to think that it is every B'more city kids dream to go to Maryland, and then when GU signs a kid from Baltimore it is such a great accomplishment, is foolish. GU can recruit in Baltimore City. The Terps are not a hurdle when recruiting in Baltimore Ciy. That is a fact. I know because I've been there. I can't speak for the Dundalks, Catonsvilles, Aberdeens, Timonimums, and Towson's, but I know in B'more city it is not a majority of the kids dream to play Terps basketball when it comes to colleges. Plus, if the Terps were that large in B'more city and had such an impact, you would see more than 3 kids going there in 10 years.
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Jun 16, 2005 20:39:16 GMT -5
Wilson, with all due respect. I didn't mean to strike a nerve with you, but you have failed to see my point. My point was not that Baltimore is GU country. We are talking about recruiting, and the fact that GU landed Summers, which it was brought up that is Terp country for recruits. What I said, you can refer to my earlier post, that around the time Wingate and Williams came to GU, 82 and 83 respectively, GU was very popular in Baltimore. Bob Wade had a lot to do with this as well because his problems with Lefty. The Terps have always had a problem getting Baltimore players starting during the early 80's and then after the Bob Wade fiasco, it was extermely hard. It took Gary Williams going hard at recruiting Keith Booth It was a huge stepping stone for Gary because B'more city did not look at Maryland too kindly. My whole point is that to think that it is every B'more city kids dream to go to Maryland, and then when GU signs a kid from Baltimore it is such a great accomplishment, is foolish. GU can recruit in Baltimore City. The Terps are not a hurdle when recruiting in Baltimore Ciy. That is a fact. I know because I've been there. I can't speak for the Dundalks, Catonsvilles, Aberdeens, Timonimums, and Towson's, but I know in B'more city it is not a majority of the kids dream to play Terps basketball when it comes to colleges. Plus, if the Terps were that large in B'more city and had such an impact, you would see more than 3 kids going there in 10 years. No nerve stricken but it is frustrating (and now I understand/empathize with other posters) to watch the merry-go-round of argument go round and round with no coherent finish. So let me put a final touch on it (BTW, I understood your point perfectly, as addressed below...): Way's point: Bmore is not Terp territory because HS stars from the city historically haven't enrolled at UMCP. Evidence: Williams and Wingate under Bob Wade. WBH's point: Terp territory is not defined solely by the choice of city HS stars; tons of media attention lavished on UMCP athletics and men's bball by Baltimore media as well as UMCP being the preponderant team of choice among city fans make Bmore Terp territory (if you don't believe this, have the Sun or any other Bmore city media outlet conduct a poll among college hoop fans in the city). This goes back long before Coach Wade's glory days in the early 80s at Dunbar with Williams and Wingate to Lefty's early success in the early 70s; clearly GU's success with those two Dunbar stars was an historical blip on the recruiting map. Way's retort: Bmore is not Terp territory because HS stars from the city historically haven't enrolled at UMCP. Evidence: Williams and Wingate under Bob Wade. And I never claimed GU was Bmore territory. WBH's response: ARRRGHHH!
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Jun 16, 2005 20:56:29 GMT -5
Wilson, with all due respect. I didn't mean to strike a nerve with you, but you have failed to see my point. My point was not that Baltimore is GU country. We are talking about recruiting, and the fact that GU landed Summers, which it was brought up that is Terp country for recruits. What I said, you can refer to my earlier post, that around the time Wingate and Williams came to GU, 82 and 83 respectively, GU was very popular in Baltimore. Bob Wade had a lot to do with this as well because his problems with Lefty. The Terps have always had a problem getting Baltimore players starting during the early 80's and then after the Bob Wade fiasco, it was extermely hard. It took Gary Williams going hard at recruiting Keith Booth It was a huge stepping stone for Gary because B'more city did not look at Maryland too kindly. My whole point is that to think that it is every B'more city kids dream to go to Maryland, and then when GU signs a kid from Baltimore it is such a great accomplishment, is foolish. GU can recruit in Baltimore City. The Terps are not a hurdle when recruiting in Baltimore Ciy. That is a fact. I know because I've been there. I can't speak for the Dundalks, Catonsvilles, Aberdeens, Timonimums, and Towson's, but I know in B'more city it is not a majority of the kids dream to play Terps basketball when it comes to colleges. Plus, if the Terps were that large in B'more city and had such an impact, you would see more than 3 kids going there in 10 years. Having relocated to the corner of Falls and Cold Spring in the charm city, I was disgusted by how much Twerp gear there was at sporting goods stores. I can't claim that's UMD BASKETBALL clothes, because their football and lacrosse team is huge around here. But the college sports fan in Baltimore is most likely to align with UMD as they are the only bigtime multisport DI school in the area. Unless the only college sport you like is Lacrosse (Hopkins, Towson, Loyola), I find most people support the turtles. And almost every GU home game was blocked out from comcast or news channel 8 on Baltimore cable. Rather than showing two of the top teams in the Big East play at the MCI center, they would show Towson womens basketball, and sometimes even a Temple game. Temple! I seriously almost ended it all when a GU game was blocked for a previously taped airing of some gymnastics competition. And _Way, out of curiousity, how did you get your impression of which schools Baltimore kids want to attend? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt you spent much time on North ave, Greenmont ave, Edmondson ave, etc. where the likes of Carmelo and his "stop snitching" crew hang out. I'm not dismissing your statements if you really know where inner city B'more kids aspire to play basketball.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jun 16, 2005 23:02:27 GMT -5
Wilson, with all due respect. I didn't mean to strike a nerve with you, but you have failed to see my point. My point was not that Baltimore is GU country. We are talking about recruiting, and the fact that GU landed Summers, which it was brought up that is Terp country for recruits. What I said, you can refer to my earlier post, that around the time Wingate and Williams came to GU, 82 and 83 respectively, GU was very popular in Baltimore. Bob Wade had a lot to do with this as well because his problems with Lefty. The Terps have always had a problem getting Baltimore players starting during the early 80's and then after the Bob Wade fiasco, it was extermely hard. It took Gary Williams going hard at recruiting Keith Booth It was a huge stepping stone for Gary because B'more city did not look at Maryland too kindly. My whole point is that to think that it is every B'more city kids dream to go to Maryland, and then when GU signs a kid from Baltimore it is such a great accomplishment, is foolish. GU can recruit in Baltimore City. The Terps are not a hurdle when recruiting in Baltimore Ciy. That is a fact. I know because I've been there. I can't speak for the Dundalks, Catonsvilles, Aberdeens, Timonimums, and Towson's, but I know in B'more city it is not a majority of the kids dream to play Terps basketball when it comes to colleges. Plus, if the Terps were that large in B'more city and had such an impact, you would see more than 3 kids going there in 10 years. No nerve stricken but it is frustrating (and now I understand/empathize with other posters) to watch the merry-go-round of argument go round and round with no coherent finish. So let me put a final touch on it (BTW, I understood your point perfectly, as addressed below...): Way's point: Bmore is not Terp territory because HS stars from the city historically haven't enrolled at UMCP. Evidence: Williams and Wingate under Bob Wade. WBH's point: Terp territory is not defined solely by the choice of city HS stars; tons of media attention lavished on UMCP athletics and men's bball by Baltimore media as well as UMCP being the preponderant team of choice among city fans make Bmore Terp territory (if you don't believe this, have the Sun or any other Bmore city media outlet conduct a poll among college hoop fans in the city). This goes back long before Coach Wade's glory days in the early 80s at Dunbar with Williams and Wingate to Lefty's early success in the early 70s; clearly GU's success with those two Dunbar stars was an historical blip on the recruiting map. Way's retort: Bmore is not Terp territory because HS stars from the city historically haven't enrolled at UMCP. Evidence: Williams and Wingate under Bob Wade. And I never claimed GU was Bmore territory. WBH's response: ARRRGHHH! It amazes me how you read what you want to read, and see what you want to see. You selective memory is superb. Oh well, I know what I said. Its all there. Its a waste of time having a conversation with someone who has a habit of not listening or reading entirely what you say. We will just have to agree to disagree, because it is pointless to carry on discussion with you on this matter without you slicing everything I say.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jun 16, 2005 23:18:23 GMT -5
Wilson, with all due respect. I didn't mean to strike a nerve with you, but you have failed to see my point. My point was not that Baltimore is GU country. We are talking about recruiting, and the fact that GU landed Summers, which it was brought up that is Terp country for recruits. What I said, you can refer to my earlier post, that around the time Wingate and Williams came to GU, 82 and 83 respectively, GU was very popular in Baltimore. Bob Wade had a lot to do with this as well because his problems with Lefty. The Terps have always had a problem getting Baltimore players starting during the early 80's and then after the Bob Wade fiasco, it was extermely hard. It took Gary Williams going hard at recruiting Keith Booth It was a huge stepping stone for Gary because B'more city did not look at Maryland too kindly. My whole point is that to think that it is every B'more city kids dream to go to Maryland, and then when GU signs a kid from Baltimore it is such a great accomplishment, is foolish. GU can recruit in Baltimore City. The Terps are not a hurdle when recruiting in Baltimore Ciy. That is a fact. I know because I've been there. I can't speak for the Dundalks, Catonsvilles, Aberdeens, Timonimums, and Towson's, but I know in B'more city it is not a majority of the kids dream to play Terps basketball when it comes to colleges. Plus, if the Terps were that large in B'more city and had such an impact, you would see more than 3 kids going there in 10 years. Having relocated to the corner of Falls and Cold Spring in the charm city, I was disgusted by how much Twerp gear there was at sporting goods stores. I can't claim that's UMD BASKETBALL clothes, because their football and lacrosse team is huge around here. But the college sports fan in Baltimore is most likely to align with UMD as they are the only bigtime multisport DI school in the area. Unless the only college sport you like is Lacrosse (Hopkins, Towson, Loyola), I find most people support the turtles. And almost every GU home game was blocked out from comcast or news channel 8 on Baltimore cable. Rather than showing two of the top teams in the Big East play at the MCI center, they would show Towson womens basketball, and sometimes even a Temple game. Temple! I seriously almost ended it all when a GU game was blocked for a previously taped airing of some gymnastics competition. And _Way, out of curiousity, how did you get your impression of which schools Baltimore kids want to attend? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt you spent much time on North ave, Greenmont ave, Edmondson ave, etc. where the likes of Carmelo and his "stop snitching" crew hang out. I'm not dismissing your statements if you really know where inner city B'more kids aspire to play basketball. Actually, Carmelo is from Myrtle Ave, near Murphy Homes projects, which were demolished. Like I said before, the Baltimore landscape is Georgetown's for the taking. The Terps are not a threat to anybody in landing recruits in the local area, particularly in Baltimore City. Maybe some people on this message board "Fear the Turtle" because of what they don't know, but those "in the know", understand what time it is.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Jun 17, 2005 7:30:10 GMT -5
My question still stands: what gives YOU the definitive knowledge of where Baltimore kids want to play college ball? I don't disagree that Baltimore CITY is not as tapped into as a city with a prominent D1 program would be. I just want to know what makes Baltimore more of a Georgetown friendly recruiting landscape over other local programs. If you simply look at television schedules, sports apparel, and general support for UMD sports in general in the city, the evidence points toward an edge in UMD's direction. But you don't buy into that. Please expound, _way.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jun 17, 2005 8:04:15 GMT -5
My question still stands: what gives YOU the definitive knowledge of where Baltimore kids want to play college ball? I don't disagree that Baltimore CITY is not as tapped into as a city with a prominent D1 program would be. I just want to know what makes Baltimore more of a Georgetown friendly recruiting landscape over other local programs. If you simply look at television schedules, sports apparel, and general support for UMD sports in general in the city, the evidence points toward an edge in UMD's direction. But you don't buy into that. Please expound, _way. Thanks JohnJacquesLayup. On a side not, how did you come up with your name. I remember John Jacques the player. Again, I'm not saying Baltmore is more friendly for G'town. Like I said before in my initial post, I said G'town was more popular than the Terps during the time Wingate's and Williams career at G'town. Where this notion that I said G'town is more popular than the Terps since the beginning of time and now is beyond me because I never said that. Anyway, the terps do not have a stronghold on Baltimore. Its not on lock down. Georgetown will have a tougher time battling the Terps in the PG/Montgomery county area, that is where the Damathas,Bishop O'Connell's, Riverdale Baptist's, Elenanor Roosevelts, the Suitland's, the Crossland's,etc. are located. You can have all the jerseys, and The Sun coverage you want, but people in B'More city are not die hard terps fans, where it will be hard for anybody to recruit in B'More because of the Terps. 3 Baltimore recruits in 10 years for the Terps does not indicate to me that the Terps have a strong foothold on Baltimore recruits. The fact that other schools outside of the area come in and pluck Baltimore players right and left within the last 10 years, tells me that Maryland does not have a pipeline to Baltimore. A pipeline is what G'town had with Louisiana over the years: Dwayne Bryant, Perry McDonald, Joey Brown, Darrel Owens, Steve Martin, Eric Myles, Duane Spencer,etc. That is a pipeline to a specfic area. Or when JT2 recruited from the Dunbars and the McKinley Techs of D.C. That is a pipeline, that is somebody's backyard. 3 Recruits (2 of which weren't even highly touted) does not make it somebody's pipeline. The Summers signing to G'town did not suprise me at all. We have a good staff and a great Coach. The Terps weren't a factor because they aren't that much of a factor to recruits in B'more city.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Jun 17, 2005 8:20:14 GMT -5
My question still stands: what gives YOU the definitive knowledge of where Baltimore kids want to play college ball? I don't disagree that Baltimore CITY is not as tapped into as a city with a prominent D1 program would be. I just want to know what makes Baltimore more of a Georgetown friendly recruiting landscape over other local programs. If you simply look at television schedules, sports apparel, and general support for UMD sports in general in the city, the evidence points toward an edge in UMD's direction. But you don't buy into that. Please expound, _way. Thanks JohnJacquesLayup. On a side not, how did you come up with your name. I remember John Jacques the player. Again, I'm not saying Baltimore is more friendly for G'town. Like I said before in my initial post, I said G'town was more popular than the Terps during the time Wingate's and Williams career at G'town. Where this notion that I said G'town is more popular than the Terps since the beginning of time and now is beyond me because I never said that. Anyway, the terps do not have a stronghold on Baltimore. Its not on lock down. Georgetown will have a tougher time battling the Terps in the PG/Montgomery county area, that is where the Damathas,Bishop O'Connell's, Riverdale Baptist's, Elenanor Roosevelts, the Suitland's, the Crossland's,etc. are located. You can have all the jerseys, and The Sun coverage you want, but people in B'More city are not die hard terps fans, where it will be hard for anybody to recruit in B'More because of the Terps. 3 Baltimore recruits in 10 years for the Terps does not indicate to me that the Terps have a strong foothold on Baltimore recruits. The fact that other schools outside of the area come in and pluck Baltimore players right and left within the last 10 years, tells me that Maryland does have a pipeline to Baltimore. A pipeline is what G'town had with Louisiana over the years: Dwayne Bryant, Perry McDonald, Joey Brown, Darrel Owens, Steve Martin, Eric Myles, Duane Spencer,etc. That is a pipeline to a specfic area. Or when JT2 recruited from the Dunbars and the McKinley Techs of D.C. That is a pipeline, that is somebody's backyard. 3 Recruits (2 of which weren't even highly touted) does not make it somebody's pipeline. The Summers signing to G'town did not suprise me at all. We have a good staff and a great Coach. The Terps weren't a factor because they aren't that much of a factor to recruits in B'more city. First about my name. I wanted to come up with a "solid" former player, one of the first I can remember, who is still relatively obscure. I tried to pick JohnJacquesJumpShot because I can't remember him taking anything but NBA range 3's, but that name was too long for the system at that time. Anyway, I'd be very interested to see which D1 schools (or conference for that matter) have recruited and landed the most Baltimore City players over the last 7-10 years. There's probably a high percentage of guys landing in the MEAC with a few of those schools being local. And as this discussion has turned towards Baltimore's recruiting landscape, wasn't Braswell from Baltimore?
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jun 17, 2005 8:30:30 GMT -5
Thanks JohnJacquesLayup. On a side not, how did you come up with your name. I remember John Jacques the player. Again, I'm not saying Baltimore is more friendly for G'town. Like I said before in my initial post, I said G'town was more popular than the Terps during the time Wingate's and Williams career at G'town. Where this notion that I said G'town is more popular than the Terps since the beginning of time and now is beyond me because I never said that. Anyway, the terps do not have a stronghold on Baltimore. Its not on lock down. Georgetown will have a tougher time battling the Terps in the PG/Montgomery county area, that is where the Damathas,Bishop O'Connell's, Riverdale Baptist's, Elenanor Roosevelts, the Suitland's, the Crossland's,etc. are located. You can have all the jerseys, and The Sun coverage you want, but people in B'More city are not die hard terps fans, where it will be hard for anybody to recruit in B'More because of the Terps. 3 Baltimore recruits in 10 years for the Terps does not indicate to me that the Terps have a strong foothold on Baltimore recruits. The fact that other schools outside of the area come in and pluck Baltimore players right and left within the last 10 years, tells me that Maryland does have a pipeline to Baltimore. A pipeline is what G'town had with Louisiana over the years: Dwayne Bryant, Perry McDonald, Joey Brown, Darrel Owens, Steve Martin, Eric Myles, Duane Spencer,etc. That is a pipeline to a specfic area. Or when JT2 recruited from the Dunbars and the McKinley Techs of D.C. That is a pipeline, that is somebody's backyard. 3 Recruits (2 of which weren't even highly touted) does not make it somebody's pipeline. The Summers signing to G'town did not suprise me at all. We have a good staff and a great Coach. The Terps weren't a factor because they aren't that much of a factor to recruits in B'more city. First about my name. I wanted to come up with a "solid" former player, one of the first I can remember, who is still relatively obscure. I tried to pick JohnJacquesJumpShot because I can't remember him taking anything but NBA range 3's, but that name was too long for the system at that time. Anyway, I'd be very interested to see which D1 schools (or conference for that matter) have recruited and landed the most Baltimore City players over the last 7-10 years. There's probably a high percentage of guys landing in the MEAC with a few of those schools being local. And as this discussion has turned towards Baltimore's recruiting landscape, wasn't Braswell from Baltimore? Yes Braswell is from Baltimore. He and Juan Dixon are best friends.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 17, 2005 8:47:00 GMT -5
I don't want to get involved in a Baltimore-D.C. dispute because I know where it will go. Before long, I will bring up the Ravens, it will Edited off MCIGuy who will call the team a bunch of Murdering Linebackers, someone will inevitably bring up baseball, and then I will promptly fall asleep and miss the rest of the fight.
I just wanted to pipe in for one moment to point out something in WBH's post. I think is is subtle genius to refer to the Twerps not as "Maryland" or "University of Maryland", but rather as UMCP.
It gives them that nice community college feel, appropriate for most of their student body, I believe.
I think that should be new board policy. The school located about 30 minutes to our Northeast shall hereafter be known as UMCP.
Its the little things I enjoy in life. What choice do I have, after all?
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jun 17, 2005 8:56:50 GMT -5
It gives them that nice community college feel, appropriate for most of their student body, I believe. LOL! Good one. ;D
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jun 17, 2005 8:57:26 GMT -5
I don't want to get involved in a Baltimore-D.C. dispute because I know where it will go. Before long, I will bring up the Ravens, it will Edited off MCIGuy who will call the team a bunch of Murdering Linebackers, someone will inevitably bring up baseball, and then I will promptly fall asleep and miss the rest of the fight. I just wanted to pipe in for one moment to point out something in WBH's post. I think is is subtle genius to refer to the Twerps not as "Maryland" or "University of Maryland", but rather as UMCP. It gives them that nice community college feel, appropriate for most of their student body, I believe. I think that should be new board policy. The school located about 30 minutes to our Northeast shall hereafter be known as UMCP. Its the little things I enjoy in life. What choice do I have, after all? I second the motion that from here on out, the university to our Northeast shall be known as UMCP.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Jun 17, 2005 9:07:25 GMT -5
First about my name. I wanted to come up with a "solid" former player, one of the first I can remember, who is still relatively obscure. I tried to pick JohnJacquesJumpShot because I can't remember him taking anything but NBA range 3's, but that name was too long for the system at that time. Anyway, I'd be very interested to see which D1 schools (or conference for that matter) have recruited and landed the most Baltimore City players over the last 7-10 years. There's probably a high percentage of guys landing in the MEAC with a few of those schools being local. And as this discussion has turned towards Baltimore's recruiting landscape, wasn't Braswell from Baltimore? Yes Braswell is from Baltimore. He and Juan Dixon are best friends. I knew he and Juan were good friends when I saw the two of them together at Vital Vittles on a Saturday morning. And yeah, UMCP it is!
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Jun 17, 2005 9:08:24 GMT -5
It shall hereforth be enacted: UMCP it is on this board! I generally use that acronym to associate it with other branches of the U MD higher ed system such as UMBC (fantastic chess team and solid math program, BTW!), UMES, UMUC, U-Md at Baltimore and others..... In general, I'm suspectible to any Boz-induced ideas!
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 17, 2005 9:27:48 GMT -5
Wilson -- you should see if you can put it into the swear-filter. Maryland should kick out UMCP.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jun 17, 2005 10:30:53 GMT -5
_way: O'Connell is in Northern VA. FYI.
I do agree that PG County is a more difficult (and more important) recruiting landscape vis-a-vis the Terps.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jun 17, 2005 10:39:40 GMT -5
_way: O'Connell is in Northern VA. FYI. I do agree that PG County is a more difficult (and more important) recruiting landscape vis-a-vis the Terps. You are right, my bad. Morgan Wooten's son is the coach there.
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Post by JohnnyTwoTimes on Jun 17, 2005 10:48:11 GMT -5
While _way may sometimes spout circular arguments, here he has pointed out a fact that I have yet to see anyone dispute regarding how many players UMCP has recruited out of B'more the past decade. And it bears noting that neither of the best two players to come out of the city over that time period became Twerps. So while the baltimorons (no offense wbh) may proudly sport their UMCP colors, I think he has a point well taken that in terms of actually recruiting basketball players, it's not like UMCP has the city on lock.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jun 17, 2005 11:15:21 GMT -5
Baltimore should be a secondary recruiting area, in that we don't focus on it but we keep our eye out for good talent. It would be great to make some inroads there and be able to swoop in and take advantge of the fact that no big program seems to have this city on lock.
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Jun 17, 2005 11:36:16 GMT -5
I spend some time on the NDNation message boards, leave me alone I root for the Hoyas in hoops, and one of my favorite things are the names for other schools. USC is Southern Cal (apparently that is repellant to SC fans). Michigan is scUM and my favorite: Boston College is either Fredo or UBICH(University of Boston in Chestnut Hill)
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