SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 17, 2017 8:39:01 GMT -5
Andrew Jackson has been a cause Celebre; why is no one up in arms over FDR who actually put Americans in camps? FDR had better PR. It's important to recall that wisdom and common sense are not reserved to any one party. Roger B. Taney's statue is removed in Baltimore City largely because Taney, a Democrat who freed his own slaves, wrote the Dred Scott decision, never mind the six other men which formed the majority and went largely unscathed in history. Then again, Hugo Black wrote the 6-3 opinion in Korematsu v United States and got a courthouse named after him. The Japanese internment cases will forever be a stain upon FDR and the Supreme Court. However, the United States government officially apologized (bill signed by Reagan) and paid the reparations during the Bush I Administration. (The Reagan Administration originally opposed the legislation - I was a mid-level DOJ attorney in the Civil Division, Torts Branch when the testimony opposing the legislation was prepared. It was not without controversy): In 1988, President Reagan signed the Civil Liberties Act [of 1988] to compensate more than 100,000 people of Japanese descent who were incarcerated in internment camps during World War II. The legislation offered a formal apology and paid out $20,000 in compensation to each surviving victim. The law won congressional approval only after a decade-long campaign by the Japanese-American community. www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/08/09/210138278/japanese-internment-www.dartmouth.edu/~hist32/History/S06%20-%20Civil%20Liberties%20Act%20of%201988.htm
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 9:15:51 GMT -5
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Aug 17, 2017 10:06:23 GMT -5
But, did they have a permit?
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Post by HometownHoya on Aug 17, 2017 10:31:49 GMT -5
I do want to point out that the large jump coincides with the time that many of those Civil War Veterans would be passing away...it's be interesting to see a comparison vs statues of Union soldiers. I am all for removing statues of those who opposed the United States of America, even if the war was a pivotal moment in American history. Leave those names in textbooks, not displayed in front of government buildings.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 10:46:05 GMT -5
I do want to point out that the large jump coincides with the time that many of those Civil War Veterans would be passing away...it's be interesting to see a comparison vs statues of Union soldiers. I am all for removing statues of those who opposed the United States of America, even if the war was a pivotal moment in American history. Leave those names in textbooks, not displayed in front of government buildings. That's true and that definitely could be part of it, but how does that explain the second jump during the Civil Rights era? This is from an article from The Herald Sun, about the Durham statue that was illegally taken down by protestors. Interesting thought, and I haven't seen data on Union statues. OT but there are almost 10 times as many statues celebrating the Confederacy than the Union.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 17, 2017 11:01:02 GMT -5
I do want to point out that the large jump coincides with the time that many of those Civil War Veterans would be passing away...it's be interesting to see a comparison vs statues of Union soldiers. I am all for removing statues of those who opposed the United States of America, even if the war was a pivotal moment in American history. Leave those names in textbooks, not displayed in front of government buildings. That's true and that definitely could be part of it, but how does that explain the second jump during the Civil Rights era? This is from an article in The Herald Sun about the Durham statue, that was illegally taken down by protestors. I'd love to see an actual analysis of when these monuments went up, monument by monument. Perhaps these monuments are similar to the adoption of the Confederate battle flag as a direct response to integration. The Confederate battle flag made its reappearance following the end of World War II. A group of southern states seceded from the Democratic party and ran their own ticket, the Dixiecrats, and the Confederate battle flag was very prominent with the Dixiecrat campaign in the 1948 presidential election. Before ‘48, it had appeared occasionally at football games at southern universities, and usually at soldiers’ reunions or commemorations of Civil War battles; but other than that, it really was not a prominent feature of the South. news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06/150626-confederate-flag-civil-rights-movement-war-history/In 2007, A confederate memorial went up in the county seat of Sussex County, DE. All five of our county councilman are Republicans (there used to be one Democrat). However, the memorial is on private property and therefore protected by the First Amendment. I do object to the fact that the State of Delaware gave the historical society a $11,500 grant. But I don't know how you segregate the grant money from support of that particular memorial and the gift shop sells Union general memorabilia as well. Delaware's only Confederate monument was installed in 2007 by a group of descendants of Confederate veterans on the property of the Nutter D. Marvel Carriage Museum on South Bedford Street. Over the years, the historical museum has sold trinkets and paperweights decorated with Confederate flags and Confederate and Union generals. www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2017/08/15/delaware-leaders-make-no-moves-oust-confederate-monument/570039001/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 11:08:01 GMT -5
Comic relief....
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 17, 2017 11:29:11 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 13:13:02 GMT -5
Imo The debate over monuments is a side dish to muddy the waters and force people into their partisan corners.
Trump normalizing bigots and racists is the real story...
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 17, 2017 14:10:12 GMT -5
Imo The debate over monuments is a side dish to muddy the waters and force people into their partisan corners. Trump normalizing bigots and racists is the real story... 1000% correct! This is exactly how this mis-direction should be handled.. Note how the host uses the "good people on both sides" argument.. SMDH..
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 17, 2017 15:10:21 GMT -5
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Aug 17, 2017 16:29:59 GMT -5
Christian hypocrisy? No way.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 17, 2017 17:10:30 GMT -5
Imo The debate over monuments is a side dish to muddy the waters and force people into their partisan corners. Trump normalizing bigots and racists is the real story... Excellent point. Though the backlash to some of the monuments being removed makes me think that it was more "normalized" than I had thought. Trump, it seems, makes it a more acceptable way of thinking and being for those that already felt the way they clearly do. Looking to Trump and feeling validity or legitimacy for nearly any group should be enough to make one reconsider.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 17, 2017 18:18:40 GMT -5
Imo The debate over monuments is a side dish to muddy the waters and force people into their partisan corners. Trump normalizing bigots and racists is the real story... Excellent point. Though the backlash to some of the monuments being removed makes me think that it was more "normalized" than I had thought. Trump, it seems, makes it a more acceptable way of thinking and being for those that already felt the way they clearly do. Looking to Trump and feeling validity or legitimacy for nearly any group should be enough to make one reconsider. While I will never be confused for a supporter of most major city governments, it occurs to me that Baltimore deserves praise for its handling of the monuments issue. There the body politic, acting within its authority and charter, removed the offending monuments with neither fanfare nor strife. No matter how offensive any particular monument or statue or mural may be, self-help by group or individual is against the law.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 17, 2017 19:06:59 GMT -5
Excellent point. Though the backlash to some of the monuments being removed makes me think that it was more "normalized" than I had thought. Trump, it seems, makes it a more acceptable way of thinking and being for those that already felt the way they clearly do. Looking to Trump and feeling validity or legitimacy for nearly any group should be enough to make one reconsider. While I will never be confused for a supporter of most major city governments, it occurs to me that Baltimore deserves praise for its handling of the monuments issue. There the body politic, acting within its authority and charter, removed the offending monuments with neither fanfare nor strife. No matter how offensive any particular monument or statue or mural may be, self-help by group or individual is against the law. Agreed. As similarly stated by Mr. Caldwell in the above clip. He even suggested their moving to a museum which, to me, makes much more sense.
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 18, 2017 5:30:08 GMT -5
Commentators are debating whether he is revealing himself as sympathetic to the white nationalist program, fearful of alienating that constituency, or just unable to respond to criticism in any way other than by “doubling down” and lashing out. The first of these possibilities is the most damning, of course, but neither of the other two is helpful to him or his presidency. And all three could be in some combination true. At a minimum, Trump faces the charges that, in courting the vilest of political support, he is a dangerously reckless president, and that, in allowing his political interests to control his response to Charlottesville, he has shown that he is far too small for the office. www.lawfareblog.com/charlottesville-and-problem-donald-trumps-constitution
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 9:08:25 GMT -5
Worth noting she praised his comments on Monday. This is a reaction to his press conference on Tuesday and his "both sides" comment...
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 18, 2017 9:49:26 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 18, 2017 10:23:26 GMT -5
I believe Georgetown should remove the gray from the blue and gray. It's offensive. And, while you are at, take down that statue in front of Healy. That guy started a university that excluded African Americans for about 170 years. And dig up all those Jesuits who taught there during those years. In fact, it's offensive to even think a university with this baggage even continuing its existence. Georgetown, itself, offends me.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Aug 18, 2017 10:52:39 GMT -5
I believe Georgetown should remove the gray from the blue and gray. It's offensive. And, while you are at, take down that statue in front of Healy. That guy started a university that excluded African Americans for about 170 years. And dig up all those Jesuits who taught there during those years. In fact, it's offensive to even think a university with this baggage even continuing its existence. Georgetown, itself, offends me. Georgetown is named after a German-born British king who suppressed the Jacobite uprising. Sounds like trouble.
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