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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 5, 2017 13:25:55 GMT -5
Marcus and Jessie are "legit Big East starters". Of course they need a lot of work on the defensive end. But trying to claim we have no one currently good enough to start in the conference is greatly exaggerated.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Apr 5, 2017 13:31:20 GMT -5
Not sure if this was discussed since I saw this morning, but the first half of this concerns me. Lots of quotes from Ewing minimizing the challenges from before him in terms of being a team's head coach and recruiting. The fact that he's never done it before is unavoidable. I'd feel a lot better if he pointed to his work ethic and past experiences and how those prepared him to meet these new challenges rather than things along the lines of "it's not as hard as everyone says it is."
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Apr 5, 2017 13:40:25 GMT -5
Not sure if this was discussed since I saw this morning, but the first half of this concerns me. Lots of quotes from Ewing minimizing the challenges from before him in terms of being a team's head coach and recruiting. The fact that he's never done it before is unavoidable. I'd feel a lot better if he pointed to his work ethic and past experiences and how those prepared him to meet these new challenges rather than things along the lines of "it's not as hard as everyone says it is." I haven't seen any recruits "minimizing" the challenge. I think he is confident in his abilities, and he had already been asked the recruiting question earlier by the sports junkies where he acknowledged there would be a learning curve. That answer struck me as him being tired of that question already and prideful in his ability to figure it out, just like he has figured everything else out in his entire career. Everything else in the press conference demonstrated his knowing that there is real work ahead to turn this around, and it may get worse before it gets better.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Apr 5, 2017 14:03:40 GMT -5
Marcus and Jessie are "legit Big East starters". Of course they need a lot of work on the defensive end. But trying to claim we have no one currently good enough to start in the conference is greatly exaggerated. Ok - which other teams in our conference would Marcus have started on? A couple, maybe - and not the teams we want to be competing against. Again, I'm saying he's got talent and I hope he turns it on - not trying to knock the guy. He's just not there yet.
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Post by upstatesaxa on Apr 5, 2017 14:10:01 GMT -5
I saw Duren on Channel 9 the other night. Said he wanted to help however he could, but it did not seem like he was going to be an assistant or anything like that. Always found him to be total class act
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Post by hoyacane11 on Apr 5, 2017 14:24:38 GMT -5
I don't think Marcus is going anywhere. His body transformation shows us he is not afraid of hard work. This. He's not going anywhere, and yes he can play. He's the 2nd most skilled player left on this pitiful roster.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Apr 5, 2017 14:25:42 GMT -5
I don't think Marcus is going anywhere. His body transformation shows us he is not afraid of hard work. 100% agree. Marcus strikes me a really hard worker that would embrace the challenge and opportunity to work under a guy who can show him what it takes if you have dreams of playing at the next level. Not sure Marcus is an NBA guy, but I like the work ethic and hope he gives the new staff a chance.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 5, 2017 14:33:03 GMT -5
Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But Marcus Derrickson isn't good, especially on defense. In terms of players who could be actual good BE starter level next year, I think there's Jessie Govan IF Ewing can somehow get him to get a bit nasty. And Jagan IF he can have a big jump in shooting and finishing over the summer. And that's pretty much it. I mean, I think everyone can improve. But this team is so devoid of talent right now, or the players are so unmotivated that we never see the talent, either way ... net year is rough if people stay or leave. I agree that we haven't seen anything yet that would lead us to believe we have a legit BE starter on the team. I also think there's talent between Govan, Derrickson, and Moseley. Let's hope a different style or renewed focus makes something click. I would add Akoy to that list. My fear is that none of these guys are the type you can really build a team around. Rather, the upside is that they'd be nice "pieces" within a better squad. This is ridiculous. Was it working last year? Oh hell no. Do the players have areas they need to improve? Absolutely. If you are going to start saying Derrrickson and Govan aren't talented players, then you are just being negative. You don't think we have legit BE starters returning? Go root for a team that has those legit BE starters that you like so much. Your attitude is simply toxic.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Apr 5, 2017 14:35:49 GMT -5
I agree that we haven't seen anything yet that would lead us to believe we have a legit BE starter on the team. I also think there's talent between Govan, Derrickson, and Moseley. Let's hope a different style or renewed focus makes something click. I would add Akoy to that list. My fear is that none of these guys are the type you can really build a team around. Rather, the upside is that they'd be nice "pieces" within a better squad. This is ridiculous. Was it working last year? Oh hell no. Do the players have areas they need to improve? Absolutely. If you are going to start saying Derrrickson and Govan aren't talented players, then you are just being negative. You don't think we have legit BE starters returning? Go root for a team that has those legit BE starters that you like so much. Your attitude is simply toxic. You're telling me that I said they don't have talent, when my post that you quote says explicitly that they do, indeed, have talent.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 5, 2017 14:36:55 GMT -5
Marcus and Jessie are "legit Big East starters". Of course they need a lot of work on the defensive end. But trying to claim we have no one currently good enough to start in the conference is greatly exaggerated. Ok - which other teams in our conference would Marcus have started on? A couple, maybe - and not the teams we want to be competing against. Again, I'm saying he's got talent and I hope he turns it on - not trying to knock the guy. He's just not there yet. Hey I'm not saying they have played at All-conference level, even honorable mention. And they might not start at the top level teams. They have talent to start for most teams in the conference - IF they play to that level. Certainly agree they have a lot to work on.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Apr 5, 2017 14:39:52 GMT -5
Not sure if this was discussed since I saw this morning, but the first half of this concerns me. Lots of quotes from Ewing minimizing the challenges from before him in terms of being a team's head coach and recruiting. The fact that he's never done it before is unavoidable. I'd feel a lot better if he pointed to his work ethic and past experiences and how those prepared him to meet these new challenges rather than things along the lines of "it's not as hard as everyone says it is." Good grief. "I'd feel a lot better if he said exactly what I wanted him to say and not something that is unquestionably true." Do you actually think it's complex? It's not rocket science. It's not an engineering marvel. It's building a relationships. Yes it takes work and will take time. But come on. He said what it is. Let's get a grip.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 5, 2017 14:46:00 GMT -5
This is ridiculous. Was it working last year? Oh hell no. Do the players have areas they need to improve? Absolutely. If you are going to start saying Derrrickson and Govan aren't talented players, then you are just being negative. You don't think we have legit BE starters returning? Go root for a team that has those legit BE starters that you like so much. Your attitude is simply toxic. You're telling me that I said they don't have talent, when my post that you quote says explicitly that they do, indeed, have talent. "I agree that we haven't seen anything yet that would lead us to believe we have a legit BE starter on the team." Bull****
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Apr 5, 2017 14:50:26 GMT -5
He's been really ambiguous about recruiting. Intentionally so, I suspect. But his answer that it's still about relationships is just fundamentally true. I'm sure he knows more than we know about AAU, sponsorships, and big money.
Personally, I'm encouraged that he knows he needs to lock down the DMV and that he understands the value of the former players in creating bridges for the program. It is just great to see them so hyped. It's a big change that their help is being asked for and we hope it's taken we well. A refreshing change, indeed.
Don't forget, the guy is a gym rat. I actually think he'll find himself enjoying the high school games. We'll see how it develops snd what he can do. For now, I'm going to enjoy this journey.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Apr 5, 2017 14:59:24 GMT -5
You're telling me that I said they don't have talent, when my post that you quote says explicitly that they do, indeed, have talent. "I agree that we haven't seen anything yet that would lead us to believe we have a legit BE starter on the team." Bull**** You quote one line, directly preceding a counterpoint, which is that there IS talent and potential for these guys. One approach is to tell me I'm full of BS and that my attitude is toxic, while providing exactly zero substance to the board. Another would be to refute my point. Here's my point, and you can feel free to provide your rebuttal whenever - with stats, the eye test, your inside info, however you see fit: Last year, we saw no defense, 8ppg, 4reb from MD. That, in my very toxic and negative and evil opinion, is not what we or other BE teams look for in their "legit starters". I hope and believe there's a higher ceiling here. We haven't seen it yet.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Apr 5, 2017 15:08:07 GMT -5
The fact that he said we shall mine the local talents seems to make recruiting for him a bit easier at the start. He will not have to go all over the nation for talent. He said JTII began like this. Then when we progress maybe more players across the country will buy in.
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Apr 5, 2017 15:45:56 GMT -5
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Cambridge
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Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 5, 2017 15:56:09 GMT -5
I hope not. He is probably the best player left. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But Marcus Derrickson isn't good, especially on defense. In terms of players who could be actual good BE starter level next year, I think there's Jessie Govan IF Ewing can somehow get him to get a bit nasty. And Jagan IF he can have a big jump in shooting and finishing over the summer. And that's pretty much it. I mean, I think everyone can improve. But this team is so devoid of talent right now, or the players are so unmotivated that we never see the talent, either way ... net year is rough if people stay or leave. My guess is that Mosely, Agau, Johnson, and Mulmore are the most likely to adapt well to Pat and a renewed focus on defensive intensity. Despite a range of fairly obvious defensive issues, these players put forth high levels of energy and effort throughout the season. They also possess some of the better defensive instincts and/or skill sets. Those instincts and skills were not properly directed or developed under JT3, but Pat may have better luck. At the very least, these were the players who hit the deck for 50-50 balls most often. A new coach will appreciate it. On the flip side, players like Campbell, Govan, and Derrickson may have a harder time with the coaching change. Fair or not, I thought they were not only ineffective defensively, but also tended to show little energy and/or effort. My guess is that they probably will be faced with a decision pretty soon - either come to jesus or ride the pine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 16:02:06 GMT -5
The fact that he said we shall mine the local talents seems to make recruiting for him a bit easier at the start. He will not have to go all over the nation for talent. He said JTII began like this. Then when we progress maybe more players across the country will buy in. This. Lots of talent in the DMV. Focus on some 3 and 4 star type kids who buy what Pat's selling. Their friends and families come to games, build some buzz, rinse, repeat. Obviously don't want to be known as "just" looking at local talent but start winning - and playing an NBA style game - and kids everywhere will notice.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 5, 2017 16:19:34 GMT -5
"I agree that we haven't seen anything yet that would lead us to believe we have a legit BE starter on the team." Bull**** You quote one line, directly preceding a counterpoint, which is that there IS talent and potential for these guys. One approach is to tell me I'm full of BS and that my attitude is toxic, while providing exactly zero substance to the board. Another would be to refute my point. Here's my point, and you can feel free to provide your rebuttal whenever - with stats, the eye test, your inside info, however you see fit: Last year, we saw no defense, 8ppg, 4reb from MD. That, in my very toxic and negative and evil opinion, is not what we or other BE teams look for in their "legit starters". I hope and believe there's a higher ceiling here. We haven't seen it yet. After playing all 32 games as a freshman, Marcus played 28 as a sophomore. Do you remember when he missed those games? Do you remember why? Maybe that has something to do with his performance last season? Do you think it could have affected his mobility on defense? The answer...He injured his knee. Prior to injuring his knee, multiple observers had noted he appeared to be perhaps our best player. In Marcus was healthy, he would have likely been our starter at 4 all year. Instead, we saw a Marcus trying to get back to help the team while coming off an injury. No need to respond. I tend to put toxic people on ignore on Hoyatalk. At work, I just fire them.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Apr 5, 2017 16:35:33 GMT -5
You quote one line, directly preceding a counterpoint, which is that there IS talent and potential for these guys. One approach is to tell me I'm full of BS and that my attitude is toxic, while providing exactly zero substance to the board. Another would be to refute my point. Here's my point, and you can feel free to provide your rebuttal whenever - with stats, the eye test, your inside info, however you see fit: Last year, we saw no defense, 8ppg, 4reb from MD. That, in my very toxic and negative and evil opinion, is not what we or other BE teams look for in their "legit starters". I hope and believe there's a higher ceiling here. We haven't seen it yet. After playing all 32 games as a freshman, Marcus played 28 as a sophomore. Do you remember when he missed those games? Do you remember why? Maybe that has something to do with his performance last season? Do you think it could have affected his mobility on defense? The answer...He injured his knee. Prior to injuring his knee, multiple observers had noted he appeared to be perhaps our best player. In Marcus was healthy, he would have likely been our starter at 4 all year. Instead, we saw a Marcus trying to get back to help the team while coming off an injury. No need to respond. I tend to put toxic people on ignore on Hoyatalk. At work, I just fire them. I will respond - if you choose to run from a losing argument, that's your choice. But you're not dealing in reality here. I do remember when he got hurt - before the season started. He played a total of 23 minutes across 2 games before missing time for the injury (and during those 2 games, he was playing hurt). So, at what point did multiple observers say he was our best player? At Kenner? I do think the injury might have affected his mobility on defense - that does not refute my point that we have not seen him play at a high level yet. Edit: Just to point out another fact, he did not play in every game as a freshman.
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