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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 31, 2017 13:00:33 GMT -5
The things I take away from this : - the guys with the inside information (B&G, Ron, Casual) are all pushing to various degrees that the assistants, especially Broadus be retained in some form. Literally no one else is pushing this. I don't blame them for trying, but you can't kneecap an incoming coach by not letting them hire their own staff - Ron and Casual are justifying this in part by saying we won't have time to sign people in the spring. You let the assistants try to sign kids to a program that doesn't have a head coach yet - you're not going to get good players (who wants to sign on to a ghost program that could hire a coach who potentially doghouses you?) and you make the job less attractive to incoming coaches who want all the slots for their guys. The best rebuild situation is a blank slate - you've got tremendously low expectations and all the control. - worst possible scenario is we end up with an interim coach because we panic about spring recruiting 5th years and transfers. Especially if an interim coach ends up being one of our assistants who have bombed out at small programs. It sends a perception message that no one wants this job, it sends a perception message to recruits that the program isn't a good one and doesn't have it's ducks in a row. I can't think of anything that would set our program back more. I doubt the committee ends up at that point. They'll hire someone. - I wouldn't freak out about 5 no's. May just mean we inquired about a lot of home runs. I'd have hoped we racked up more home run no's than 5. This Rivals article is ridiculous. As TC says, literally nobody else is pushing this. It reeks of a Broadus leak. I mean, if Broadus was writing the article himself, it could not get better. "Solomon has also been a head coach, leading the Bonnies from 2003 to 2007. His experience there was a struggle, but forged him for the better; inheriting a scandal-laden program, Solomon stabilized things, leaving it in much better stead than he found it."- This is incredibly sanitized. Solomon was a huge failure at St. Bonaventure. The guy was 24-88! From an article when he was fired: ""We looked at the entire body of work, not just wins and losses," athletic director Steve Watson said during a conference call. "There were a lot of factors that went into this decision." Solomon rankled Bonnies fans after challenging them for not supporting the team. The coach was booed off the court following the final home game, a 91-60 loss to Fordham, last week. "That's one of the factors that went into the decision ... personnel issues," Watson said." "That experience for Solomon, along with Broadus’ time at Binghamton - which was cut short by internal allegations of wrong doing, charges ultimately found to be baseless - have produced a great advantage for the pair."- I value Broadus' contributions as an assistant, and if a new coach wanted to keep him on in that role, that would be fine by me. But, to say the charges were ultimately found to be baseless, is also a bit sanitized. According to the information on Wikipedia, Broadus had to dismiss six players for team rules violations, and he had an NCAA violation for communicating with a recruit during the no-contact period. But, even if that's not true, the fact that he had to dismiss six players (presumably, players he recruited) tells you something about institutional control. I never worried about this when JT3 was the head coach because to me, he had unquestionable ethics, and if JT3 thought it wasn't an issue (and JT3 clearly knows him better than me), that was fine by me. And it could very well be that Broadus got an unfair shake at Binghamton, but there's just too much smoke here. If people don't want guys like Randy Bennett because of minor NCAA violations, there's no reason why Broadus should be entrusted with leading the program. As I said, Broadus did recruit well, so I think he's helped the program in the past. But the other side is that he's the one consistent person beside JT3 over the last few years, and so you could argue he should have at least a small role in sharing responsibility for that decline.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 31, 2017 13:01:10 GMT -5
I am not a big Crean guy, and at this point I don't think he will get the job, although I do think he could turn the program around as quickly as anyone else. He always struck me as a little nuts and really annoying to watch on TV. I realize there are always two sides to any story and I am sure there are probably some negative things that could be written about him, but if even half the stuff in that story are true, then I think Georgetown could do much worse than hiring a guy like him. Great article, and obviously told from a certain perspective, but I think it's meaningful. I really do think Crean is one of the best options out there. Maybe not a first or second choice, but I would prefer him over a lot of the names here. I realize that the fan-base has called him "Creepy Crean" over the years, and he's not perfect, but we could do a lot worse. And I know there are some insinuations that people in Milwaukee were turned off by him, but the guy can recruit, he's never gotten into NCAA trouble, and based on the article above he seems like a good person overall. He "checks the boxes" so to speak. And he's miles better than Amaker. Since we're spitballing, it's kind of interesting to me that there's been no buzz about Crean being under consideration or having said "no thanks." I know rumors are just that, but at least they've existed for some other candidates.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 31, 2017 13:01:32 GMT -5
I mean, there have been rumors about Amaker being "it" for the last two weeks. So I take this with a grain of salt. If that's our result, our search will have been a failure because it means nobody else wants the job.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Mar 31, 2017 13:08:52 GMT -5
I mean, there have been rumors about Amaker being "it" for the last two weeks. So I take this with a grain of salt. If that's our result, our search will have been a failure because it means nobody else wants the job. It would reflect more poorly on the program than the search process, imo.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 31, 2017 13:14:54 GMT -5
I mean, there have been rumors about Amaker being "it" for the last two weeks. So I take this with a grain of salt. If that's our result, our search will have been a failure because it means nobody else wants the job. It would reflect more poorly on the program than the search process, imo. Which was the first thing that crossed my mind when Hurley allegedly took a pass.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Mar 31, 2017 13:17:56 GMT -5
I mean, there have been rumors about Amaker being "it" for the last two weeks. So I take this with a grain of salt. If that's our result, our search will have been a failure because it means nobody else wants the job. exactly. he'd be what, the 5th or 6th choice? give me ewing over him.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 31, 2017 13:18:53 GMT -5
It would reflect more poorly on the program than the search process, imo. Which was the first thing that crossed my mind when Hurley allegedly took a pass. I am not looking to reopen the debate on JT3, but I have long said you need to have a realistic sense of a replacement before you fire someone. I don't think that was the case with our search. I think there were a lot of assumptions made that our job was more desirable than it is.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 31, 2017 13:23:41 GMT -5
Which was the first thing that crossed my mind when Hurley allegedly took a pass. I am not looking to reopen the debate on JT3, but I have long said you need to have a realistic sense of a replacement before you fire someone. I don't think that was the case with our search. I think there were a lot of assumptions made that our job was more desirable than it is. Let's see if you can still say this once we, you know, actually make the hire. You seem very eager to declare yourself correct on this. Anyone we hire is going to position this program in a better place than it was on March 22, 2017. Anyone.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 31, 2017 13:27:41 GMT -5
Let's see if you can still say this once we, you know, actually make the hire. You seem very eager to declare yourself correct on this. Anyone we hire is going to position this program in a better place than it was on March 22, 2017. Anyone. That's just my opinion based on what I have observed. I sincerely hope I am wrong, actually. Or, if I am not wrong, I hope we succeed in getting a good coach despite any missteps. I want the program to be a successful, winning program (and yes, that includes winning a lot more than we have in the last few years). And that's achieved by getting us the best coach we can get. I will support whoever it is (until or unless the person gives me reason to change my mind), even if I think it's a bad choice now, because I want us to succeed.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Mar 31, 2017 13:34:36 GMT -5
I always thought Crean seemed a good option, but below Shaka Smart, Miller and Brey, because of his experience in resurrecting Indiana from probation, his recruiting connections everywhere (including the DMV), his ability to evaluate talent (especially important to Georgetown this year and next when the cupboard's looking bare and we have to find diamonds in the rough), his experience with good academic schools (Indiana and Marquette)and ability to hit the ground running. I was a bit disappointed to read earlier in this Latavious-length thread that some players didn't like him. I believe it was provided by Daytona, a fine contributor whose insight I have always appreciated, and therefore dismissed Crean when I thought Shaka or Brey were options. Given where we are now and the recent positive information about Crean's character, which make me think he's a superior option to the candidates left in the HoyaTalk discussion, I thought I'd share some info from a friend (non-GU) who is very good friends with another BIG 10 coach. That coach holds Crean in the highest regard as a coach and a person. No gamesmanship involved either. I think Crean warrants a hard look. I also think he'd be motivated to restore Georgetown's luster and the country's perception of him. I certainly like him over thoughts of Amaker (please not), the assistants (that would be admitting failure and they've had time to help fix our defensive and rebounding issues), and the uncertainty surrounding Ewing's ability to hit the ground running and the inexperience of the young Mount coach. Even if it didn't work out to our satisfaction longterm, I'm increasingly of the view that Crean would shore up the big holes that exist in the program now and stabilize the brand. We are in a perilous position right now. Echoing what I read earlier, I also want the best long-term coach we can get even if that takes some time and is not Crean.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 31, 2017 13:43:43 GMT -5
I am not looking to reopen the debate on JT3, but I have long said you need to have a realistic sense of a replacement before you fire someone. I don't think that was the case with our search. I think there were a lot of assumptions made that our job was more desirable than it is. Let's see if you can still say this once we, you know, actually make the hire. You seem very eager to declare yourself correct on this. Anyone we hire is going to position this program in a better place than it was on March 22, 2017. Anyone.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 31, 2017 13:46:40 GMT -5
When I first heard JTIII was gone, I heard Amaker was the replacement and I was good with it. Guy can recruit. He is older and wiser now and has likely learned from his Seton Hall & Michigan failures. Belicheat got canned by Browns right? Coaches do reassess and improve and I think Amaker could do it. Amaker was 31 at Seton Hall. At Michigan he inherited penalties and a two year tourney ban. His Harvard teams have been consistently good. At 51, he likely is looking to find his final spot.
I would be good with an Amaker hire and would be 100% onboard although I realize for some he could be viewed as a back up option.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Mar 31, 2017 13:48:24 GMT -5
When I first heard JTIII was gone, I heard Amaker was the replacement and I was good with it. Guy can recruit. He is older and wiser now and has likely learned from his Seton Hall & Michigan failures. Belicheat got canned by Browns right? Coaches do reassess and improve and I think Amaker could do it. Amaker was 31 at Seton Hall. At Michigan he inherited penalties and a two year tourney ban. His Harvard teams have been consistently good. At 51, he likely is looking to find his final spot. I would be good with an Amaker hire and would be 100% onboard although I realize for some he could be viewed as a back up option. try the backup to the backup...to the backups backup
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 31, 2017 13:50:12 GMT -5
When I first heard JTIII was gone, I heard Amaker was the replacement and I was good with it. Guy can recruit. He is older and wiser now and has likely learned from his Seton Hall & Michigan failures. Belicheat got canned by Browns right? Coaches do reassess and improve and I think Amaker could do it. Amaker was 31 at Seton Hall. At Michigan he inherited penalties and a two year tourney ban. His Harvard teams have been consistently good. At 51, he likely is looking to find his final spot. I would be good with an Amaker hire and would be 100% onboard although I realize for some he could be viewed as a back up option. Amaker is near the bottom option for me, however, he is much better than keeping III. Amaker has a good chance to bring in a nice group of recruits in 2018, I did not have that same hope for III. He will bring talent into the program and that is one big step this program needs to take. That said, holding out hope for a left field candidate arising this weekend.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 31, 2017 13:56:01 GMT -5
I am not looking to reopen the debate on JT3, but I have long said you need to have a realistic sense of a replacement before you fire someone. I don't think that was the case with our search. I think there were a lot of assumptions made that our job was more desirable than it is. Let's see if you can still say this once we, you know, actually make the hire. You seem very eager to declare yourself correct on this. Anyone we hire is going to position this program in a better place than it was on March 22, 2017. Anyone. That's optimistic. We can still get worse you know. Regardless, being better than the 9th best team in a 10 team Big East shouldn't be the goal or the point of satisfaction. If Georgetown doesn't get a coach that will be able to match or exceed JTIII's first 11 years, they would have been better off holding this coaching change off a year until they developed a plan. Only time will tell.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 31, 2017 13:56:10 GMT -5
If we have money to pay the next coach, then what's the issue? Everyone has a price and it is a job. Is the JT2 concern real?
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 31, 2017 13:58:46 GMT -5
If we have money to pay the next coach, then what's the issue? Everyone has a price and it is a job. Is the JT2 concern real? Any coach concerned about JT2 isn't a coach I want.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 31, 2017 14:00:49 GMT -5
I have no idea what is going on and whether there have been offers and rejections or simply a case of the Administration moving very slowly. In any event, it is not something I can control or worry about. As some have noted, firing a coach is the beginning of a journey into the unknown and there is no way at this point to assume that the next coach will be an improvement or failure. What I believe is that the status quo was not a viable option for this program. Past that, I can only cross my fingers and hope that whomever they pick will be able to right the ship quickly and restore some of the swag that has been associated with Georgetown for several decades. I have my biases like everyone else. I want a coach who plays aggressively on both ends. I want a coach who recruits well. Most importantly, I want a coach who openly embraces and communicates with the fan base. That is one aspect of the Hoya culture that absolutely must change.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 31, 2017 14:01:35 GMT -5
We need to stop this narrative, fueled in part by Ron's opinion piece, that we have been "turned down" by 5 or more candidates. We have not made a single offer yet, and will not do so until the process is complete and we have our guy.
With someone like Brey or White the search company simply contacts their reps to inquire whether there are any circumstances under which they would leave where they are. If not, you just cross them off of the list, and don't waste your time making any effort to determine whether they would be a fit. But you have not made any offer, you never reached the point where you seriously considered them. Has there been a single person who said we actually offered, and they turned us down? No, because it has not happened.
The search committee, with the assistance of the search company, is likely finalizing their priorities, may not even have interviewed yet. It will come together soon.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 31, 2017 14:04:35 GMT -5
If we have money to pay the next coach, then what's the issue? Everyone has a price and it is a job. Is the JT2 concern real? Any coach concerned about JT2 isn't a coach I want. Exactly. And it is not simply a matter of how much money. We want the right fit for the next 10-15 years or more; he wants to coach a program that can be a major player on the national stage as soon as possible.
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