the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 24, 2017 22:02:52 GMT -5
There are only a handful (if that) of coaches who run a clean program, graduate players, and win big.
III did a good job for us until his last 2 years here. Prior to those two years, some were not happy with some of his winning seasons.
So the question becomes, who out there right now can exceed what III accomplished? III has Big East Regular season titles. A Big East tournament championship. A Sweet Sixteen. A Final Four.
Only thing left is more Big East titles, but really a National title and more Final Fours.
Let's be honest, take a guy like Ed Cooley, who is a good coach. Our fanbase wouldn't want him. They wouldn't want a Ed Cooley type coach with those kind of results.
Best bet is a young up and comer from a mid-major. It is a gamble, but the coaches we really want don't look like they are leaving their big-time jobs anytime soon.
That is what some of these celebrities are implying. It is understandable why the change was made.
However, the question becomes...what are the expectations here? If you want a guy who graduates players, runs a clean program, recruits well, AND wins championships. Well, good luck finding him. Those guys don't grow on trees.
Another thing, the next coach is going to need time AND support. The fans have set a bad precedent of firing chants, petitions, and protests. Support the team and the new coach. The administration made the decision many fans wanted (both with Esh and III). However, they did it on their own terms, not in the time frame some fans wanted. Support the team even when they struggle. It wasn't until Jay Wright's fourth year that he reached the NCAA's for the first time And this was with a much heralded recruiting class that struggled as young players for a few years before finally developing into a formidable team and program. Imagine if Nova bailed on Wright prematurely. We all know Coach K's story during his early years. Like Wright, Coach K didn't reach the NCAA's until his 4th year.
The administration made the change. It is a new time now.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 24, 2017 22:19:36 GMT -5
The only thing wrong with the tweet is that it's not aimed at the students and alumni and it unfairly targets DeGioia. OK, enough with this hostile attitude toward students and alumni. Are you saying JT3 should have no accountability for all the players that chose to and threatened to leave? That somehow the alumni and student's convinced White, Copeland, Mourning, Waters to transfer with a few more ready to join if III was retained? I think it is time to consider that JT3 had the biggest hand in creating this mess, by making and breaking promises to recruits and players that he would change his style of play. Also, the fans did not have much of a role in III's inability to teach defense under the current college basketball rules. I get it, some are very upset about moving on from the Thompson's (although if Ewing is hired that quickly goes away) but this idea that somehow the alumni and fans are to blame for the state of the basketball program is ridiculous. This fan base is mild compared to most. By the way, who do you think pays a large chunk of the salary for these coaches at a private university - the students and alumni.
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millerj9
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 658
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Post by millerj9 on Mar 24, 2017 22:32:17 GMT -5
Wouldn't have seen this if Gene Smith had not retweeted it. No Mr. Wilbon, we finally remembered who we are: a premiere university whose guiding light is the concept of cura personalis, a term that encapsulates the entirety of the human spirit and endeavor, striving for excellence in all facets, not only academics, nor character, nor faith, but all aspects of what makes an exceptional student community and experience. We finally remembered that the most important constituency at a university is its students, without whom it wouldn't exist and who deserve to feel pride and hope and enthusiasm for all parts of a school that represents them. We finally remembered that athletics are a seminal part of a university experience for many and help to unite the network of alumni who take pride in it and share a passion for it and want to see all of the university's exceptional qualities represented well by its most public image. We finally remembered that no individual or family is larger than the university, its students, and its alumni, and that deep levels of gratitude for service to the students and community is not the same as a lack of accountability and expectations. We finally remembered that leadership means making hard decisions -- anyone could make an easy decision. To suggest that expecting leadership and success to go along with character, academics, and loyalty is somehow forgetting who we are is to show you never knew who we really were. I'm not on the Board of Directors, nor anywhere close to being so, but I do feel a need to defend them again such accusations as I am proud of them for making this hard decision. The status quo was the easy decision; seeking a better way forward was hard. Thanks to all who thought we could be better. I hope we continue that spirit into continuing to improve all aspects of our university. Thanks for this thoughtful post.
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 24, 2017 22:43:16 GMT -5
The only thing wrong with the tweet is that it's not aimed at the students and alumni and it unfairly targets DeGioia. I thought about giving you a pass on this out of respect, but, the more I thought about it, the more I thought "Nah." You are off base . . . way off base. Your reflexive defense of III never really bothered me because I tried to see both sides. Why don't you? Wilbon's tweet exemplifies everything.wrong with the 140 characters or less culture. "Hot takes" by those who think that they know way more than they do.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,486
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 24, 2017 22:44:33 GMT -5
Spent a few minutes checking out how the coaching search is going at California. They were actively considering Eric Musselman but backed away. Steve Lavin has indicated his interest. Cal reached out to Randy Bennett at Saint Mary's and was rebuffed. Cal interviewed the head coaches at Cal Irvine and Cal Davis. In my opinion (humble or otherwise), if JT3 wants this job, it's his. Cal went with a no-name assistant that was on Cuonzo Martin's staff.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
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Post by TC on Mar 24, 2017 22:48:42 GMT -5
The only thing wrong with the tweet is that it's not aimed at the students and alumni and it unfairly targets DeGioia. OK, enough with this hostile attitude toward students and alumni. Are you saying JT3 should have no accountability for all the players that chose to and threatened to leave? That somehow the alumni and student's convinced White, Copeland, Mourning, Waters to transfer with a few more ready to join if III was retained? You're begging the question. JT3 was held accountable. I'm saying that students and alumni have gradually lost any sense of what the history of the basketball program is, they've lost any realistic sense of expectations since the Final Four run, they don't have a good sense of how we stack up against other programs. We aren't UCLA or Kentucky - we don't have the resources, the history or the fanbase commitment, but a lot of people I've read here, CH, and on social media seem to think we are and that we're just the right coaching pick away from that.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 24, 2017 22:51:53 GMT -5
By the way, who do you think pays a large chunk of the salary for these coaches at a private university - the students and alumni. I am not saying that fan donations have no impact, but the fan donations in the past few years didn't even make up half of JT3's salary. Media money has to be the biggest source of revenue for any program in a major conference. I realize that one can use accounting tricks to make the numbers not entirely useful, but the program is largely self-sufficient. I just don't think this idea that students or alumni are entitled to significant influence because they pay a large chunk of salary makes any sense. Sure, if you are a major donor donating $1 million a year or more then fine, that person probably should have some influence. But to my knowledge, we have no regular basketball donors giving anything even remotely close to that level. Obviously, college sports are different, but professional teams get a LOT more money from fans than college teams (via season ticket sales, merchandising, etc.) and they generally don't make decisions based on what fans want.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 24, 2017 22:53:29 GMT -5
The only thing wrong with the tweet is that it's not aimed at the students and alumni and it unfairly targets DeGioia. I thought about giving you a pass on this out of respect, but, the more I thought about it, the more I thought "Nah." You are off base . . . way off base. Your reflexive defense of III never really bothered me because I tried to see both sides. Why don't you? Wilbon's tweet exemplifies everything.wrong with the 140 characters or less culture. "Hot takes" by those who think that they know way more than they do. Don't waste your time, you are talking to a wall.. As long as JTIII is the coach, TC and hoyalove4ever are happy to finish in 9th place only ahead of DePaul.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 24, 2017 23:05:22 GMT -5
I thought about giving you a pass on this out of respect, but, the more I thought about it, the more I thought "Nah." You are off base . . . way off base. Your reflexive defense of III never really bothered me because I tried to see both sides. Why don't you? Wilbon's tweet exemplifies everything.wrong with the 140 characters or less culture. "Hot takes" by those who think that they know way more than they do. Don't waste your time, you are talking to a wall.. As long as JTIII is the coach, TC and hoyalove4ever are happy to finish in 9th place only ahead of DePaul. TJI, it is better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than type and remove any doubt.
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sweetness
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by sweetness on Mar 24, 2017 23:14:18 GMT -5
Wilbon is embarrassing himself with these tweets. For example he continues to make the point that we don't draw fans. We drew fans when we were winning and the product was actually worth watching. So I guess he doesn't understand the link between performance and attendance.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Mar 24, 2017 23:28:23 GMT -5
Wilbon is embarrassing himself with these tweets. For example he continues to make the point that we don't draw fans. We drew fans when we were winning and the product was actually worth watching. So I guess he doesn't understand the link between performance and attendance. You're completely misinterpreting what he's saying. He's pointing out we don't have an on-campus arena and how that's a big issue (for attendance, financially, scheduling, etc). I don't agree with his statement that we can't get a good coach, but he's on target on everything else he's saying.
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sweetness
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by sweetness on Mar 24, 2017 23:41:04 GMT -5
I'm not misinterpreting anything. He says 'an awful atmosphere at Verizon for home games'. Well when we played Louisville in '08, or Duke in '10, or Cuse in '13 in big games that mattered, Verizon was rocking.
He also calls out urban schools. Aren't Nova and Xavier urban schools? They're doing just fine....and we will too now that we upgrade at the coach position.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Mar 24, 2017 23:52:07 GMT -5
No, on 'nova. Main Line suburbs. Could not be less urban.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Mar 24, 2017 23:56:53 GMT -5
I'm not misinterpreting anything. He says 'an awful atmosphere at Verizon for home games'. Well when we played Louisville in '08, or Duke in '10, or Cuse in '13 in big games that mattered, Verizon was rocking. He also calls out urban schools. Aren't Nova and Xavier urban schools? They're doing just fine....and we will too now that we upgrade at the coach position. They both have on campus arenas. If you want to willfully misinterpret what Wilbon's saying, go ahead.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Mar 24, 2017 23:59:43 GMT -5
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sweetness
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by sweetness on Mar 25, 2017 0:04:44 GMT -5
Nova plays most of their big games at Wells Fargo - and has no problem filling it up and creating an awesome atmosphere. And we would have no problems filling Verizon - when we're winning.
And Georgetown isn't exactly an 'urban school', like a GW or an NYU. It's one of the most beautiful campuses in the country.
I get it - Wilbon is more loyal to the Thompsons than to the school, as are some of the posters here.
We're an amazing school in a great conference situated in the most fertile recruiting area in the country. If we get the right coach we'll be right back in the mix.
Wilbon can go back to wearing his Northwestern sweatshirt.
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sweetness
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by sweetness on Mar 25, 2017 0:15:25 GMT -5
As an alum and lover of the school I want to be good at all the sports too.
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 25, 2017 0:16:03 GMT -5
Here is a Twitter to English translation and IMO a reasonable interpretation of Wilbon.
Wilbon: Did Georgetown administration and boosters start to think they are Kentucky or UCLA?
Translation: You aren't Kentucky or UCLA and, if you replace a coach who has presided over two unsuccessful years and some embarrassing losses, you must think that you are. There's no middle ground between Kentucky/UCLA and 14-18.
Wilson: Worst thing a school can do is forget who it is.
Translation: Your future is inextricably tied to the Thompsons. Know your place and accept it.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Mar 25, 2017 0:28:02 GMT -5
Here is a Twitter to English translation and IMO a reasonable interpretation of Wilbon. Wilbon: Did Georgetown administration and boosters start to think they are Kentucky or UCLA? Translation: You aren't Kentucky or UCLA and, if you replace a coach who has presided over two unsuccessful years and some embarrassing losses, you must think that you are. There's no middle ground between Kentucky/UCLA and 14-18. Wilson: Worst thing a school can do is forget who it is. Translation: Your future is inextricably tied to the Thompsons. Know your place and accept it. I read it as more of a combination of the two. Replaced a Thompson who has presided, etc. Subtle difference but significant in the case of Georgetown basketball and Georgetown University. I'm not sure Wilbon is entirely wrong but I also think that he'll look more correct if the next coach doesn't significantly change things for the better over the next few years.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 25, 2017 0:39:41 GMT -5
Nova plays most of their big games at Wells Fargo - and has no problem filling it up and creating an awesome atmosphere. And we would we have no problems with Verizon - when we're winning. And Georgetown isn't exactly an 'urban school', like a GW or an NYU. It's one of the most beautiful campuses in the country. I get it - Wilbon is more loyal to the Thompsons than to the school, as are some of the posters here. We're an amazing school in a great conference situated in the most fertile recruiting area in the country. If we get the right coach we'll be right back in the mix. Wilbon can go back to wearing his Northwestern sweatshirt. Doc Walker is in the same boat..literally getting confrontational with anyone who suggested that JTIII was not getting a raw deal.
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