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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 24, 2017 9:37:13 GMT -5
I respectfully believe you are being wildly naive if you really think the "threat" if a bunch of students protesting is what spurred the decision of the Board of Trustees. I respectfully believe you are being wildly naive if you really think the "threat" of a bunch of students protesting did not add to all of the other mess around the program which then spurred the decision of the Board of Trustees. Was it a small part of the noise? Sure. But your congratulatory post seemed to imply that their "threat" was the precipitating event for the Board's decision, and that was the basis of my response. If the Board is giving any significant weight to a student rally when making decisions about coaches in ANY sport, maybe JTIII is not the only one whose time at Georgetown should be ending.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 24, 2017 9:40:11 GMT -5
I respectfully believe you are being wildly naive if you really think the "threat" of a bunch of students protesting did not add to all of the other mess around the program which then spurred the decision of the Board of Trustees. Was it a small part of the noise? Sure. But your congratulatory post seemed to imply that their "threat" was the precipitating event for the Board's decision, and that was the basis of my response. If the Board is giving any significant weight to a student rally when making decisions about coaches in ANY sport, maybe JTIII is not the only one whose time at Georgetown should be ending. Sum is greater than the parts.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 24, 2017 9:43:47 GMT -5
Was it a small part of the noise? Sure. But your congratulatory post seemed to imply that their "threat" was the precipitating event for the Board's decision, and that was the basis of my response. If the Board is giving any significant weight to a student rally when making decisions about coaches in ANY sport, maybe JTIII is not the only one whose time at Georgetown should be ending. Sum is greater than the parts. True. I have agreed for months that the time had come. But solely because of the dramatic downturn of the program, not because of the outside noise. I realize this is in many ways a business, and the outside factors have to be recognized. I just don't want them to drive the decision.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 24, 2017 9:56:08 GMT -5
No one would ever want to cheer someone being fired and it is understandable to blame the machine (entitled fans, University admin, donors, etc) versus the man. However, I think what former players and commentators like Bilas are are intentionally leaving out is what was next for this program. After two straight very bad seasons, III had no notable recruits coming in and was losing players to transfer, graduation and going pro. I honestly think if Waters was still committed and no players were threatening to transfer, even with Peka and Prior leaving, III would be the coach next season. But that simply was not the case, he had lost the team, and really, there was no choice. III could have made it easy on them and resigned, but instead they had to fire him.
It happens in all of sports. The Giants pushed aside 2-time superbowl winning Coach Coughlin, does that mean he was a bad coach? Of course not, it means he needed a fresh start just like the team. III is still a good coach, but he needs a reset, just like Georgetown. He needs to find a new energy and bring a fresh perspective somewhere. So while I agree with Bilas that he will be a good caoch somehere else (and I hope he is), it is not as simple as it seems.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 24, 2017 10:01:41 GMT -5
Very nice heartfelt thanks by DaJuan supporting his coach at a difficult time... "Tried To Teach Me More But I Wasn't Ready." What could have been in 2009!
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Mar 24, 2017 10:20:17 GMT -5
Actually, I think DaJuan put his finger on it. Georgetown made a business decision. The institution has always been ambivalent about accepting the business side of the program. I really think the former players will come around and realize that is what happened here. It is hard for them to see their coach caricatured not just on social media but also on the mainstream media. I have found it painful at times, so I know this is especially hard for them.
The fact that it was a board decision is actually a good one. The continued loyalty of Jack DeGioia and Lee Reed to JT3 will make it easier to keep bridges open not just to JT3, Jr., but the players as well. We'll see how this apparent split affects operations moving forward, but at the moment I feel like things will ultimately work out.
I've also talked to a couple of people who were part of the program from the Final Four generation who recognize that this is the best thing for everyone. They are grateful to him, but see that JT3 could not have put together a season next year. I am hoping JT3 spends the next few months relaxing with his family. I hope that he soon sees that this was best for everyone. And, ultimately that will help bring acceptance for everyone else. Then he will be ready for his next big thing.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 24, 2017 10:28:00 GMT -5
Yeah, really like that Instagram post by Summers.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 24, 2017 10:57:19 GMT -5
Spent a few minutes checking out how the coaching search is going at California. They were actively considering Eric Musselman but backed away. Steve Lavin has indicated his interest. Cal reached out to Randy Bennett at Saint Mary's and was rebuffed. Cal interviewed the head coaches at Cal Irvine and Cal Davis.
In my opinion (humble or otherwise), if JT3 wants this job, it's his.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 24, 2017 13:02:12 GMT -5
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DudeSlade
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Post by DudeSlade on Mar 24, 2017 13:49:47 GMT -5
I have always said that I loved the way JTIII represented the university and taught his players. I have also always loved the way our players have represented us. It's the best marketing for the type of school we are. Everything from the players since this announcement has shown that and I'm proud of them for supporting JTIII and all he meant for them.
As Dajuan said, though, this is a business. And more importantly, every organization sometimes needs a change in leadership. You can't run an organization based on past successes. You have to decide on leadership based on their vision of the path forward. If JTIII had seemed to have a clear vision of how the basketball program would adapt and grow moving forward, I'd have been with him still. But that wasn't happening and it seemed to get more desperate the longer we went. I think ultimately this will be good for JTIII, as well as the program. It can be incredibly difficult to change course when you are in the middle of the river, let alone a storm as it was becoming for III. With a step away and perspective, he's a smart enough man and coach that I'm convinced he'll figure out how to adapt and lead a program well again. But like Microsoft finally had to acknowledge that it was time to move on from the founder CEOs (Gates, then Ballmer) even though they'd had great success and found a really, new innovative hire in Nadella who understood the future was in Cloud, AI, and potentially AR and crafted a plan to get them there, I think Georgetown hit that point too. I hope we go after someone with that vision now.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 24, 2017 15:34:03 GMT -5
Spent a few minutes checking out how the coaching search is going at California. They were actively considering Eric Musselman but backed away. Steve Lavin has indicated his interest. Cal reached out to Randy Bennett at Saint Mary's and was rebuffed. Cal interviewed the head coaches at Cal Irvine and Cal Davis. In my opinion (humble or otherwise), if JT3 wants this job, it's his. Well, that didn't take long. Within two hours of my post, California decided to promote Wyking Jones, an assistant coach on Cuonzo Martin's staff, to head coach. Shows you what I know.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 24, 2017 17:05:52 GMT -5
Watching this video really highlights why it was time for JT3 to go. Notice how unprepared Duke was for all the backdoor cuts. How wide open the passing lanes were. Sadly, by the 2014 season teams, especially BE teams had seen it and knew how to defense it. For the past 3 years I have never seen a BE team as unprepared for our offense as Duke, and other teams, were back then. In short, college bball caught up to JT3. That 2006 Duke team was AWFUL defensively. I haven't seen a team before or after that game as unprepared as the one team. The Princeton offense doesn't need back door cuts to succeed. The problem was by 2014 we had stopped running the Princeton offense for fear of recruiting and fan repercussions. Worked out well, huh? Gotta disagree. Ten years ago teams had a hard time dealing with the GU offense (no matter what you call it). Even today, teams that haven't played us before have problems with it. But the reason JT3 had to go was that our BE opponents had figured out how to shut us down defensively. The better teams in our league owned us the last 3 years. If I'm not mistaken we've beaten Nova, Butler and Xavier less than 4 times in the 18 times we've played then in the new BE. And when was the last time we beat Providence or Seton Hall? No matter how bad Duke was defensively they were ranked #1 when we beat them in 2006. But looking at that video just reinforces how ineffective our offense had become.
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 24, 2017 17:11:50 GMT -5
JTIII did an admirable job and he was paid handsomely. The Thompsons and Georgetown led a symbiotic relationship and both benefitted tremendously. It is now time to forge a new path for the BB community.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 24, 2017 17:16:19 GMT -5
That 2006 Duke team was AWFUL defensively. I haven't seen a team before or after that game as unprepared as the one team. The Princeton offense doesn't need back door cuts to succeed. The problem was by 2014 we had stopped running the Princeton offense for fear of recruiting and fan repercussions. Worked out well, huh? Gotta disagree. Ten years ago teams had a hard time dealing with the GU offense (no matter what you call it). Even today, teams that haven't played us before have problems with it. But the reason JT3 had to go was that our BE opponents had figured out how to shut us down defensively. The better teams in our league owned us the last 3 years. If I'm not mistaken we've beaten Nova, Butler and Xavier less than 4 times in the 18 times we've played then in the new BE. And when was the last time we beat Providence or Seton Hall? No matter how bad Duke was defensively they were ranked #1 when we beat them in 2006. But looking at that video just reinforces how ineffective our offense had become. Please explain then how our most unsuccessful stretch came playing in essentially a new conference with new teams? And we won the final year regular season championship in the league we had played in with the same coach for 9 years? We haven't used JTIII's Princeton for 5 years, we've been using some weird hybrid mess. Either way, he point is now moot. It is is asinine to suggest our struggles are because teams suddenly figured out our offense and utilizing a 4 minute highlight video of every back door pass is the JTIII's most efficient offensive game at Georgetown as an accurate representation for how it "used" to be defended is absurd propaganda. If they screw up this hire( which seems likely given the current options), I would bet dollars to donuts, 3 years from now there will be a lot of nostalgia for that offense and a realization the grass is likely the same color on the other side.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 24, 2017 19:37:11 GMT -5
Wouldn't have seen this if Gene Smith had not retweeted it.
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DudeSlade
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Post by DudeSlade on Mar 24, 2017 20:46:45 GMT -5
Wouldn't have seen this if Gene Smith had not retweeted it. No Mr. Wilbon, we finally remembered who we are: a premiere university whose guiding light is the concept of cura personalis, a term that encapsulates the entirety of the human spirit and endeavor, striving for excellence in all facets, not only academics, nor character, nor faith, but all aspects of what makes an exceptional student community and experience. We finally remembered that the most important constituency at a university is its students, without whom it wouldn't exist and who deserve to feel pride and hope and enthusiasm for all parts of a school that represents them. We finally remembered that athletics are a seminal part of a university experience for many and help to unite the network of alumni who take pride in it and share a passion for it and want to see all of the university's exceptional qualities represented well by its most public image. We finally remembered that no individual or family is larger than the university, its students, and its alumni, and that deep levels of gratitude for service to the students and community is not the same as a lack of accountability and expectations. We finally remembered that leadership means making hard decisions -- anyone could make an easy decision. To suggest that expecting leadership and success to go along with character, academics, and loyalty is somehow forgetting who we are is to show you never knew who we really were. I'm not on the Board of Directors, nor anywhere close to being so, but I do feel a need to defend them against such accusations, as I am proud of them for making this hard decision. The status quo was the easy decision; seeking a better way forward was hard. Thanks to all who thought we could be better. I hope we continue that spirit into continuing to improve all aspects of our university.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 24, 2017 20:50:12 GMT -5
Again, all of these sports media celebrities are not close enough to the program to understand the reality that was facing the administration. The program was literally disintegrating. No recruits of note are coming in and multiple players were transferring. Georgetown was literally going to have 7 scholarship players and win like 8 games next season.
I highly doubt these media folks would feel the same way if they actually took the time to look at the situation for what it was instead of just thinking this was a 2 year drought.
Guys like Wilbon immediately lose credibility with me when they make such disparaging statements about things they do not understand. He is not a DC reporter anymore, he has no idea what he is talking about.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 24, 2017 21:14:21 GMT -5
Wilbon's comment would bother me if I had any respect for Wilbon. Since I don't, I don't really care what he has to say.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 24, 2017 21:37:27 GMT -5
Wilbon's comment would bother me if I had any respect for Wilbon. Since I don't, I don't really care what he has to say. What a dog crap tweet from Wilbon. He's awful but unfortunately he has a large following who may give credence to his asinine and uninformed stance. Objectively, the GU position is an attractive one and while we honor the Thompson legacy it doesn't mean the U can't make a coaching change when warranted. Unfortunate that we have local folks who are seeking to devalue the position in the eyes of the public. Question the motivation for such statements.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 24, 2017 21:44:13 GMT -5
The only thing wrong with the tweet is that it's not aimed at the students and alumni and it unfairly targets DeGioia.
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