miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by miracles87 on Mar 25, 2017 0:59:10 GMT -5
Wouldn't have seen this if Gene Smith had not retweeted it. No Mr. Wilbon, we finally remembered who we are: a premiere university whose guiding light is the concept of cura personalis, a term that encapsulates the entirety of the human spirit and endeavor, striving for excellence in all facets, not only academics, nor character, nor faith, but all aspects of what makes an exceptional student community and experience. We finally remembered that the most important constituency at a university is its students, without whom it wouldn't exist and who deserve to feel pride and hope and enthusiasm for all parts of a school that represents them. We finally remembered that athletics are a seminal part of a university experience for many and help to unite the network of alumni who take pride in it and share a passion for it and want to see all of the university's exceptional qualities represented well by its most public image. We finally remembered that no individual or family is larger than the university, its students, and its alumni, and that deep levels of gratitude for service to the students and community is not the same as a lack of accountability and expectations. We finally remembered that leadership means making hard decisions -- anyone could make an easy decision. To suggest that expecting leadership and success to go along with character, academics, and loyalty is somehow forgetting who we are is to show you never knew who we really were. I'm not on the Board of Directors, nor anywhere close to being so, but I do feel a need to defend them again such accusations as I am proud of them for making this hard decision. The status quo was the easy decision; seeking a better way forward was hard. Thanks to all who thought we could be better. I hope we continue that spirit into continuing to improve all aspects of our university. As beautifully written and inspiring as this post is, Coach was let go for wins and losses, period. Not for being out of line with Georgetown values.
|
|
DudeSlade
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
Posts: 1,209
|
Post by DudeSlade on Mar 25, 2017 1:29:27 GMT -5
No Mr. Wilbon, we finally remembered who we are: a premiere university whose guiding light is the concept of cura personalis, a term that encapsulates the entirety of the human spirit and endeavor, striving for excellence in all facets, not only academics, nor character, nor faith, but all aspects of what makes an exceptional student community and experience. We finally remembered that the most important constituency at a university is its students, without whom it wouldn't exist and who deserve to feel pride and hope and enthusiasm for all parts of a school that represents them. We finally remembered that athletics are a seminal part of a university experience for many and help to unite the network of alumni who take pride in it and share a passion for it and want to see all of the university's exceptional qualities represented well by its most public image. We finally remembered that no individual or family is larger than the university, its students, and its alumni, and that deep levels of gratitude for service to the students and community is not the same as a lack of accountability and expectations. We finally remembered that leadership means making hard decisions -- anyone could make an easy decision. To suggest that expecting leadership and success to go along with character, academics, and loyalty is somehow forgetting who we are is to show you never knew who we really were. I'm not on the Board of Directors, nor anywhere close to being so, but I do feel a need to defend them again such accusations as I am proud of them for making this hard decision. The status quo was the easy decision; seeking a better way forward was hard. Thanks to all who thought we could be better. I hope we continue that spirit into continuing to improve all aspects of our university. As beautifully written and inspiring as this post is, Coach was let go for wins and losses, period. Not for being out of line with Georgetown values. Thank you for the kind words. You are almost certainly correct, as I considered as I was responding. But I've found the strongest retort to those who claim you've forgotten yourself and your values is to reinforce what you believe them to actually be. Wins and losses need not be dissonant with the university's mission. I'd like to believe that the Board considered the value of basketball (and all of our athletics) to the overall student and alumni experience in making this decision. As one look at the city our university resides in can speak to, the mythology an organization crafts about itself can be a powerful aid in creating a culture of success and as importantly in getting through trying times.
|
|
hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,445
|
Post by hoya95 on Mar 25, 2017 7:12:57 GMT -5
"Don't let the sum of your existence be 8-10 pounds of air."
I've been a gigantic Georgetown fan for as long as I can remember. Loved watching the games, and I was always proud as hell of the program off the court. As a 10 year old, I wanted to fight the adults who would say the most awful things about Georgetown basketball (and you should have heard the stuff that was said). So I thought there were things we wouldn't do, and that we had a better understanding that the actual games are for entertainment purposes only. But we had a coach that represented all the things we say we care about. He resurrected the program, had great success, then had disappointing ends to otherwise good seasons, and finally had two lousy seasons. Then the pitchforks came out, and now he's gone.
Will we ever get the things back that made us huge fans on and off the court? Maybe. I hope so. But right now, we've lost something big, and it feels lousy. If others can't see that, then I'm sorry, I just can't help you.
|
|
calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,352
|
Post by calhoya on Mar 25, 2017 8:08:17 GMT -5
What was Wilbon thinking? That comment just sets me off. The underlying message of that tweet seems to be "know your place" within the basketball landscape. Know your place? It is such an arrogant and insulting comment. I understand he is a fan of the Thompsons, as am I and many other minorities who saw Big John as a champion who effectively used his platform to make major changes in the basketball landscape. However, this comment is emotional, insulting and very shallow from someone who should know better. I must ask why Northwestern, Wilbon's beloved school for whom he was a trustee, expended major dollars and effort to hire its current coach Collins and has tried hard to upgrade its basketball program--did they forget who they are and start to think that they are Georgetown?
No, Georgetown isn't Kentucky or UCLA. When Georgetown hired Big John it wasn't Kentucky or UCLA either--in fact it wasn't even a mid-major program and certainly was far from relevant. Yet his influence changed the college game on and off the court so dramatically that it could not be conceived at the time. Thankfully, Georgetown forgot who it was back then.
|
|
joey0403p
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by joey0403p on Mar 25, 2017 8:39:17 GMT -5
Wilbon is entitled to his opinion. So are posters hear who disagree with the decision.
Personally I agreed with the decision, BUT I also recognize those with an opposing view certainly have valid reason to do so. It really couldn't have been an easy decision.
Only thing that bothers me with Wilbon (who I admittedly love and basically learned to read from him and Tony articles in the post years ago) is he hasn't been covering g town in a decade plus. And he seems to just roll us into his typical "oh the boosters have unrealistic expectations" argument.
If you disagree with the decision, fine. There are reasons for that side which folks here have explained thoughtfully. But it's not "the boosters are crazy and we forgot who we were".
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
|
Post by NCHoya on Mar 25, 2017 9:00:40 GMT -5
By the way, who do you think pays a large chunk of the salary for these coaches at a private university - the students and alumni. I am not saying that fan donations have no impact, but the fan donations in the past few years didn't even make up half of JT3's salary. Media money has to be the biggest source of revenue for any program in a major conference. I realize that one can use accounting tricks to make the numbers not entirely useful, but the program is largely self-sufficient. I just don't think this idea that students or alumni are entitled to significant influence because they pay a large chunk of salary makes any sense. Sure, if you are a major donor donating $1 million a year or more then fine, that person probably should have some influence. But to my knowledge, we have no regular basketball donors giving anything even remotely close to that level. Obviously, college sports are different, but professional teams get a LOT more money from fans than college teams (via season ticket sales, merchandising, etc.) and they generally don't make decisions based on what fans want. I knew I should not have written that last sentence, but I was emotionally tired of being blamed (as a donating alumnus) by what seems like multiple posters (but maybe they are the same 2 or 3) for III being fired. It is a shame, because the point of my post, were the 3 paragraphs before that last line about III having much more to do with his dismissal than anyone else. So, I understand your point, and I retract my final sentence in that post. I have already written, no one is happy about this situation, including me, but I am surprised that everyone cannot agree that this program was only going to get worse, and maybe reach a historic low next season. In my mind, GU saved III from himself. He exits with a great reputation intact and will be coaching again if he chooses. Even though this may be the end of an era, and I emphasize may, no one is considering what happens if III is not forced to leave. But yeah, I understand after 45 years of Georgetown & Thompson, moving forward is going to be a painful process for many, but I am not going to just sit here and take talking heads like Wilbon play the blame game in an irresponsible and uninformed way.
|
|
AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
|
Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 25, 2017 9:02:40 GMT -5
Don't waste your time, you are talking to a wall.. As long as JTIII is the coach, TC and hoyalove4ever are happy to finish in 9th place only ahead of DePaul. TJI, it is better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than type and remove any doubt. Original. Happy to say that the collateral benefit of the firing is that you, TC and hoyalove4ever (hope you are not still "literally sick to my stomach") can wallow in your own despair. You remind me of Hillary supporters.
|
|
AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
|
Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 25, 2017 9:07:41 GMT -5
"Don't let the sum of your existence be 8-10 pounds of air." I've been a gigantic Georgetown fan for as long as I can remember. Loved watching the games, and I was always proud as hell of the program off the court. As a 10 year old, I wanted to fight the adults who would say the most awful things about Georgetown basketball (and you should have heard the stuff that was said). So I thought there were things we wouldn't do, and that we had a better understanding that the actual games are for entertainment purposes only. But we had a coach that represented all the things we say we care about. He resurrected the program, had great success, then had disappointing ends to otherwise good seasons, and finally had two lousy seasons. Then the pitchforks came out, and now he's gone. Will we ever get the things back that made us huge fans on and off the court? Maybe. I hope so. But right now, we've lost something big, and it feels lousy. If others can't see that, then I'm sorry, I just can't help you. No we didn't lose anything. JTIII lost and that is why he was fired. Don't let fond memories of the past cloud your assessment of the present. I wish he maintained success but the trajectory of all aspects of not just the team but the program said otherwise and the powers that be agreed.
|
|
hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,445
|
Post by hoya95 on Mar 25, 2017 9:24:57 GMT -5
"Don't let the sum of your existence be 8-10 pounds of air." I've been a gigantic Georgetown fan for as long as I can remember. Loved watching the games, and I was always proud as hell of the program off the court. As a 10 year old, I wanted to fight the adults who would say the most awful things about Georgetown basketball (and you should have heard the stuff that was said). So I thought there were things we wouldn't do, and that we had a better understanding that the actual games are for entertainment purposes only. But we had a coach that represented all the things we say we care about. He resurrected the program, had great success, then had disappointing ends to otherwise good seasons, and finally had two lousy seasons. Then the pitchforks came out, and now he's gone. Will we ever get the things back that made us huge fans on and off the court? Maybe. I hope so. But right now, we've lost something big, and it feels lousy. If others can't see that, then I'm sorry, I just can't help you. No we didn't lose anything. JTIII lost and that is why he was fired. Don't let fond memories of the past cloud your assessment of the present. I wish he maintained success but the trajectory of all aspects of not just the team but the program said otherwise and the powers that be agreed. I'm not putting a single thing I said up for a debate. You define you. I've got no problem looking anyone in the eye and defining me.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,552
|
Post by DanMcQ on Mar 25, 2017 9:27:11 GMT -5
Wilbon accomplished his mission: we are talking about him.
|
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Mar 25, 2017 9:27:20 GMT -5
Had GU gotten Robb and Trier and Oubre and guys like that, the complexion of everything would be different. I don't think JTIII's coaching sucks I think he didn't have enough peices. He ran out of time. But to turn this into such a hatred for him is ridiculous. I mean, student protests - really? I think he had to go. It was time, but the way folks treated this man saying stuff like "Fire his f**k*** a**" and spreading stuff about how he lied to players etc. is....sigh....
|
|
AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
|
Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 25, 2017 9:34:50 GMT -5
No we didn't lose anything. JTIII lost and that is why he was fired. Don't let fond memories of the past cloud your assessment of the present. I wish he maintained success but the trajectory of all aspects of not just the team but the program said otherwise and the powers that be agreed. I'm not putting a single thing I said up for a debate. You define you. I've got no problem looking anyone in the eye and defining me. Profound. Thanks. I was offering an opinion just as you. I have no reason to debate you - your existence is of no matter to me.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,552
|
Post by DanMcQ on Mar 25, 2017 9:38:57 GMT -5
Asked and answered, as my barrister colleagues would say (and reasonably civilly to boot). Move on please.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
|
Post by NCHoya on Mar 25, 2017 9:42:17 GMT -5
OK, enough with this hostile attitude toward students and alumni. Are you saying JT3 should have no accountability for all the players that chose to and threatened to leave? That somehow the alumni and student's convinced White, Copeland, Mourning, Waters to transfer with a few more ready to join if III was retained? You're begging the question. JT3 was held accountable. I'm saying that students and alumni have gradually lost any sense of what the history of the basketball program is, they've lost any realistic sense of expectations since the Final Four run, they don't have a good sense of how we stack up against other programs. We aren't UCLA or Kentucky - we don't have the resources, the history or the fanbase commitment, but a lot of people I've read here, CH, and on social media seem to think we are and that we're just the right coaching pick away from that. I understand for many the Thompsons are the reason they are Georgetown fans. I just think blaming alumni/students is not right and way too simple. There are very few of us alumni/students who would not rather see III versus any other coach on the sideline for Georgetown in one of tonight's games. Sure, there are some that were completely anti-III but they have been complaining for years. Most of us accepted last season and the March failures and stuck to the big picture, but this year was important because III told us so. III said last season is not who we are, was not Georgetown. Then this year happened, and as importantly was how it happened - the transfers, the repeated mistakes of past seasons on defense/turnovers, the lack of changes on the court. All hope was then erased for 2018 as well, and I do think that the reality of 2018 is what finally led to this decision.
|
|
iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,400
Member is Online
|
Post by iowa80 on Mar 25, 2017 9:46:58 GMT -5
Wilson accomplished his mission: we are talking about him. That's what the hot take/Twitter culture is mostly about. I can go on there and condescend to any number of groups to get a little attention. Doesn't mean that I should.
|
|
AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
|
Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 25, 2017 9:49:46 GMT -5
Also let's not forget the overhaul in his coaching staff which many thought would yield positive change.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 25, 2017 9:52:45 GMT -5
Wilson accomplished his mission: we are talking about him. Wait - WilsonBlvd is really Wilbon?! That explains a lot!!π
|
|
njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
|
Post by njhoya78 on Mar 25, 2017 9:55:25 GMT -5
Spent a few minutes checking out how the coaching search is going at California. They were actively considering Eric Musselman but backed away. Steve Lavin has indicated his interest. Cal reached out to Randy Bennett at Saint Mary's and was rebuffed. Cal interviewed the head coaches at Cal Irvine and Cal Davis. In my opinion (humble or otherwise), if JT3 wants this job, it's his. Cal went with a no-name assistant that was on Cuonzo Martin's staff. I know. See my post in this thread that went up seven hours before your post.
|
|
SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
|
Post by SaxaCD on Mar 25, 2017 10:15:23 GMT -5
Had GU gotten Robb and Trier and Oubre and guys like that, the complexion of everything would be different. I don't think JTIII's coaching sucks I think he didn't have enough peices. He ran out of time. But to turn this into such a hatred for him is ridiculous. I mean, student protests - really? I think he had to go. It was time, but the way folks treated this man saying stuff like "Fire his f**k*** a**" and spreading stuff about how he lied to players etc. is....sigh.... Students today protest if somebody comes to campus and wants to say something that Jon Stewart doesn't agree with. There's that, too.
|
|
drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
|
Post by drquigley on Mar 25, 2017 10:34:06 GMT -5
Gotta disagree. Ten years ago teams had a hard time dealing with the GU offense (no matter what you call it). Even today, teams that haven't played us before have problems with it. But the reason JT3 had to go was that our BE opponents had figured out how to shut us down defensively. The better teams in our league owned us the last 3 years. If I'm not mistaken we've beaten Nova, Butler and Xavier less than 4 times in the 18 times we've played then in the new BE. And when was the last time we beat Providence or Seton Hall? No matter how bad Duke was defensively they were ranked #1 when we beat them in 2006. But looking at that video just reinforces how ineffective our offense had become. Please explain then how our most unsuccessful stretch came playing in essentially a new conference with new teams? And we won the final year regular season championship in the league we had played in with the same coach for 9 years? We haven't used JTIII's Princeton for 5 years, we've been using some weird hybrid mess. Either way, he point is now moot. It is is asinine to suggest our struggles are because teams suddenly figured out our offense and utilizing a 4 minute highlight video of every back door pass is the JTIII's most efficient offensive game at Georgetown as an accurate representation for how it "used" to be defended is absurd propaganda. If they screw up this hire( which seems likely given the current options), I would bet dollars to donuts, 3 years from now there will be a lot of nostalgia for that offense and a realization the grass is likely the same color on the other side. Like I said, whatever you call it it is obvious it wasn't working. And it still featured that ugly turnaround dribble by the guard, the working through a big man, and lots of movement and cuts to the hoop, all of which have failed miserably the last three years. And yes it was a highlight film but we saw in that film more successful backdoor layups in one game than I believe we saw all year the last two years. Don't know why it took the old BE teams so long to catch on but for whatever reason the new BE teams have been on to us from the beginning. And yes the discussion is moot. But whatever happens down the road I pray that I never see that ridiculous turnaround dribble at the top of the key by the guard initiating our offense.
|
|