thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Dec 13, 2023 21:06:58 GMT -5
This would be best case scenario imo (outside of an on campus that's not gonna happen).
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 21:25:45 GMT -5
This seems like nonsense to me. Turning Cap1 into a 10k arena would be pretty expensive and fiscally foolhardy. Ted is just going to give it to us? And we chop off the top half? This seems like its nada.
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astrohoya
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Post by astrohoya on Dec 13, 2023 21:51:06 GMT -5
That’s my question. Where is the money coming from to renovate Cap One? I am skeptical.
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Post by bearsandbulls on Dec 13, 2023 22:59:04 GMT -5
The perfect solution is to have it on campus....With all the smarts at G'town and alums, figure it out.....The students have a rigorous schedule, the ease of going to games is solved, the games are for the athletes and then for the students followed by the alums....
So figure so way to do it by expanding McD......I don't care how big but anything above 4-5000 is better than going to Capitol and then with Capitol's alleged future, much better.
If we had big games or if we go big time, contract with Capitol or its substitute....But for now, think NOW
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 13, 2023 23:18:19 GMT -5
This seems like nonsense to me. Turning Cap1 into a 10k arena would be pretty expensive and fiscally foolhardy. Ted is just going to give it to us? And we chop off the top half? This seems like its nada. I don’t believe anyone has even floated the idea of Leonsis “giving” the entire arena to Georgetown? Downsizing seating capacity in an arena is hardly unprecedented - and there are creative ways to use the space. It’s probably a longshot that an actual “renovation” would take place, but it would be a decent outcome. And Leonsis at least has incentive to make improvements, as it wouldn’t look great to stick the WNBA Mystics in a decaying, cavernous arena.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 23:31:58 GMT -5
Why are the Mystics not called too by the siren song of NoVa?
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Dec 14, 2023 0:44:20 GMT -5
Why are the Mystics not called too by the siren song of NoVa? For the same reason they left Capital One? Bad optic to have them playing in an NBA arena at 30% capacity. 5-10K seat venue is adequate. Their current arena in Southeast is perfect for the atmosphere compared to when they played @ Capital One.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 14, 2023 13:44:01 GMT -5
The perfect solution is to have it on campus....With all the smarts at G'town and alums, figure it out.....The students have a rigorous schedule, the ease of going to games is solved, the games are for the athletes and then for the students followed by the alums.... So figure so way to do it by expanding McD......I don't care how big but anything above 4-5000 is better than going to Capitol and then with Capitol's alleged future, much better. If we had big games or if we go big time, contract with Capitol or its substitute....But for now, think NOW I could be wrong, but I thought at one time the Big East had a requirement on arena size for conference games. The exception was obviously the COVID year, but on a regular basis I didn’t think McD met the requirements. Other schools that are prevented from playing in their smaller on campus arenas are PC and SHU.
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mchoya
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Post by mchoya on Dec 14, 2023 14:28:39 GMT -5
BE attendance requirements are no longer a thing.
But since you brought it up, SHU moved from East Rutherford to Newark once Prudential Center opened. We’re going to move to Potomac Yard if/when it opens and people can either deal with it or they won’t. Ted needs more events and rent, CapOne is dead without the NBA/NHL and that downsizing thing is not going to happen.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 14, 2023 14:45:45 GMT -5
But since you brought it up, SHU moved from East Rutherford to Newark once Prudential Center opened. We’re going to move to Potomac Yard if/when it opens and people can either deal with it or they won’t. Ted needs more events and rent, CapOne is dead without the NBA/NHL and that downsizing thing is not going to happen. Dilemma #1: "The Leonsis Family Draft Kings Arena & Casino" isn't going to charge Georgetown current rates: the rent will go way up, because they will charge a premium for everyone to be there....including ticket holders. The average price for a Wizards game is now $182. At Madison Square Garden, $346. At the new San Francisco arena, $611. Georgetown already pays what is likely the most in arena rent anywhere in college basketball, 15,000 empty seats notwithstanding. At some point it simply becomes unsustainable. Dilemma #2: The fan base is not from Northern Virginia. It will lose even more fans given its distance. No one is coming in from Montgomery or PG County for an 8:30 game, they just won't. Dilemma #3: Georgetown has a lot of ties with the DC city government to get the Capital Campus up and running. A sure way to ruin this is to follow Leonsis and leave town.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 14, 2023 15:06:20 GMT -5
Instead of all he typical hand-wringing and expressions of helplessness, I think Georgetown University and its alumni base and donors should see these current events as motivation to finally get something done. Hell, call it an opportunity. Even if the plans of Leonsis to move Monumental to Virginia falls through or even if it succeeds but Cap One remains an option, Gtown should recognize that this situation is no longer acceptable and that it is vulnerable to being out in the cold in the not too distant future. Leonsis can’t be trusted obviously. But most of all Georgetown needs an arena for all of its indoor teams.
One thing that is not discussed enough on these boards is how much of a disadvantage he men’s basketball team has been over the last couple of decades by not having the true type of homecourt advantage that pretty much all other D1 squads take for granted. How many losses can we assume was the result of not having the type of atmosphere opponents needed to overcome even during the peak JT III years? Dozens? More than a hundred? With that hit of losses means diminishing returns, which means the program’s national rep falls which means less interest in Hoya games from Georgetown students, Georgetown alums, Georgetown fans and casual sports observers. This leads to increasingly embarrassing attendance which leads more dismal oncourt results and often less than stellar recruiting. Which leads to more dubious oncourt results and less public attention/support. It adds up to a spiral down towards redundancy. Way back in the days of the Cap Center, it was not a huge detriment because playing most of a college team’s games in an NBA arena seemed like a neat novelty only afforded to a select few. But for nearly 30 years that type of venue setting has gradually lost its appeal.
Enough of that. The events of the past couple of days may be a gift of sorts, a more true wakeup call ever before for the Hoya community to use every resource and chance at brainstorming to put themselves in a position to end this nonsense once and all. The indoor sports teams all need a new home, not just men’s hoops. If the Georgetown women were a ranked team and were facing off against a decent opponent for a home game where the heck would they play that would not embarrass the university? What venue would suffice to make a network actually want to televise a game from that location? The same could be said for a sport like volleyball. McD is too antiquated and outdated.
There is going to be the typical pushback over what can’t be done, blah, blah, blah, but don’t you guys want to compete? Do you ever imagine what these programs could be with even a small on-campus arena to provide a true homecourt advantage? Do people here ever imagine big? I would argue that, if future conference stability holds, getting such an arena could be the last important piece towards returned and SUSTAINED prominence.
Yes, there are countless hurdles to clear. Still maybe instead of people automatically thinking something can’t be done, maybe the thinking should be how they can go about getting it done. If I had a penny for every time I have read posts about the notorious residents of the surrounding neighborhoods I could probably finance a new arena on my own. Stop making those folks into mythic giants. Georgetown University was around before those neighborhoods and the people currently living in them. That part of DC is named Georgetown because of the school itself. Put some respect on the school. GU has plenty of smart, crafty alum and enough money to hire even more of those type of people who never graduated from the school. Georgetown University should fight to have say of just what it can build on its own damn property. Why would the neighbors be so worried about an influx of hundreds or even thousands of cars during on-campus games. Its not as if the school has enough space to accommodate such parking anyway. Maybe during games the school can run shuttle buses, ala an airport, back and forth to a parking lot a couple of miles away. That may sound crazy but what’s even more maddening is just sitting around doing nothing without looking to the future. That’s nuts.
I’ve been around long enough to recall very conversations on this very board in which the consensus was that GU wouldn’t be able to get certain things done such as the new practice facility or being able to go out and pay top dollar for a coach. I remember when people I respect thought ten plus years ago that the new Big East could not survive or thrive and therefore the Hoyas would be stuck in a lowly mid-major conference. The negativity never ends. For once will we start believing in possibilities that are more positive?
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
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Post by TC on Dec 14, 2023 15:08:58 GMT -5
But since you brought it up, SHU moved from East Rutherford to Newark once Prudential Center opened. We’re going to move to Potomac Yard if/when it opens and people can either deal with it or they won’t. Ted needs more events and rent, CapOne is dead without the NBA/NHL and that downsizing thing is not going to happen. Dilemma #1: "The Leonsis Family Draft Kings Arena & Casino" isn't going to charge Georgetown current rates: the rent will go way up, because they will charge a premium for everyone to be there....including ticket holders. The average price for a Wizards game is now $182. At Madison Square Garden, $346. At the new San Francisco arena, $611. Georgetown already pays what is likely the most in arena rent anywhere in college basketball, 15,000 empty seats notwithstanding. At some point it simply becomes unsustainable. If the attendance requirements are not a thing, the answer is to play more games at McDonough - with renovation or with no renovation. Pack the crap out of it and make tickets a desired thing out of scarcity. That solves the rent issue. There's no need to give Ted 20 games a year. Give him 5. I don't understand what everyone is up arms about - the only possibility here that ends in a worse situation for Georgetown is somehow getting frozen out of both Cap One and Potomac Yard and ending up at ESA. If Cap One gets refurbished with a smaller footprint and there are more dates and times freed up - great! That's a much better situation than you have now. If you end up at Potomac Yard, that's a better travel situation for students and it's a newer arena.
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mchoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by mchoya on Dec 14, 2023 15:13:36 GMT -5
But since you brought it up, SHU moved from East Rutherford to Newark once Prudential Center opened. We’re going to move to Potomac Yard if/when it opens and people can either deal with it or they won’t. Ted needs more events and rent, CapOne is dead without the NBA/NHL and that downsizing thing is not going to happen. Dilemma #1: "The Leonsis Family Draft Kings Arena & Casino" isn't going to charge Georgetown current rates: the rent will go way up, because they will charge a premium for everyone to be there....including ticket holders. The average price for a Wizards game is now $182. At Madison Square Garden, $346. At the new San Francisco arena, $611. Georgetown already pays what is likely the most in arena rent anywhere in college basketball, 15,000 empty seats notwithstanding. At some point it simply becomes unsustainable. Dilemma #2: The fan base is not from Northern Virginia. It will lose even more fans given its distance. No one is coming in from Montgomery or PG County for an 8:30 game, they just won't. Dilemma #3: Georgetown has a lot of ties with the DC city government to get the Capital Campus up and running. A sure way to ruin this is to follow Leonsis and leave town. 1) Comparing the prices of the Knicks and Warriors to what a college basketball game would cost is ridiculous. Face value tickets for Georgetown @ St John’s at MSG are $60 get-in and $100 in the lower bowl. www.ticketmaster.com/st-johns-red-storm-mens-basketball-new-york-new-york-03-09-2024/event/3B005F3D0DF5238FIf you’re spending that money to build the arena campus and entertainment district, you need people to show up and not only buy tickets but also stay and spend money at the restaurants you’re presumably getting a cut of. Sure the rent is a cost, but it’s a cost you’re already paying. Ted needs the inventory of dates (especially on off peak days/hours) and Georgetown needs a place to play, he’s not going to cut off his nose to spite his face here. 2) The fan base does not come out for 8:30 PM games as it is, even when they’re centrally located and even when they are free! Moving them to VA doesn’t change this fact. Putting minor OOC games at St. E’s/ESA is going to be the answer. BE games+Syracuse etc are going to be at an NBA arena. 3) Considering the DC executive and City Council has been caught flat footed on this entire thing, I think solid stakeholder management alleviates that concern five years down the road. GU is still the largest private employer in DC, right? Why is the DC government is going to nuke that relationship because they no longer have a facility that can meet the needs of the basketball team 20 days a year?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 14, 2023 15:46:43 GMT -5
It's not a comparison with the NBA but a reflection that a higher cost (e.g., 25 to 40%) for arena rental will increase tickets significantly. Aside from eating the costs, how does Georgetown manage that? Much higher costs. How many people are going to pay $100 for a lower bowl seat against Butler or Seton Hall? Tickets for University of San Francisco games start at $15 on campus. An upcoming game at the Chase Center starts at $77.50. If you’re spending that money to build the arena campus and entertainment district, you need people to show up and not only buy tickets but also stay and spend money at the restaurants you’re presumably getting a cut of. Sure the rent is a cost, but it’s a cost you’re already paying. Ted needs the inventory of dates (especially on off peak days/hours) and Georgetown needs a place to play, he’s not going to cut off his nose to spite his face here. Every owner thinks he's building the next entertainment wonderland--that can take a decade to build, maybe more. 15 years after opening his stadium. Jerry Jones still has a Wal Mart next to his building, while LA's SoFi Stadium, for all its gilding, is still surrounded by parking lots. It may be difficult for some but it needs to be said: Ted Leonsis does not need Georgetown. Assigning the Hoyas to the "B" team is public evidence of that. When Abe Pollin announced his move in 1997, Georgetown was right there alongside the pro teams because it was drawing 12,000 a game. Now. it's less than half that. If Ted can book a a concert, WWE PPV or a Virginia Tech basketball game in that building on those dates, he makes more money, which is precisely why he is doing this. He is a businessman. 2) The fan base does not come out for 8:30 PM games as it is, even when they’re centrally located and even when they are free! Moving them to VA doesn’t change this fact. Putting minor OOC games at St. E’s/ESA is going to be the answer. BE games+Syracuse etc are going to be at an NBA arena. ESA is not the answer. End of story. 3) Considering the DC executive and City Council has been caught flat footed on this entire thing, I think solid stakeholder management alleviates that concern five years down the road. GU is still the largest private employer in DC, right? Why is the DC government is going to nuke that relationship because they no longer have a facility that can meet the needs of the basketball team 20 days a year? DC government can make Georgetown squirm in many ways. Marion Barry cost Georgetown a lot of money in the 1990s by slow-rolling bond approvals and Bowser herself drove a lot of the COVID restrictions which hit the GU balance sheet in 2020-21. Being the largest employer means squat--it's not like GU can move the campus and is is powerless if the city council wants to make life difficult. The Capital Campus and Law Center expansion grind to a halt if DC hits the breaks on zoning, signoffs, and permits if it perceived that GU is no longer supportive of the District's efforts downtown. That may sound very, very petty, but that's politics.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Dec 14, 2023 15:59:54 GMT -5
But since you brought it up, SHU moved from East Rutherford to Newark once Prudential Center opened. We’re going to move to Potomac Yard if/when it opens and people can either deal with it or they won’t. Ted needs more events and rent, CapOne is dead without the NBA/NHL and that downsizing thing is not going to happen. Dilemma #1: "The Leonsis Family Draft Kings Arena & Casino" isn't going to charge Georgetown current rates: the rent will go way up, because they will charge a premium for everyone to be there....including ticket holders. The average price for a Wizards game is now $182. At Madison Square Garden, $346. At the new San Francisco arena, $611. Georgetown already pays what is likely the most in arena rent anywhere in college basketball, 15,000 empty seats notwithstanding. At some point it simply becomes unsustainable. Dilemma #2: The fan base is not from Northern Virginia. It will lose even more fans given its distance. No one is coming in from Montgomery or PG County for an 8:30 game, they just won't. Dilemma #3: Georgetown has a lot of ties with the DC city government to get the Capital Campus up and running. A sure way to ruin this is to follow Leonsis and leave town. On #2, is there data to support that there are that many more fans from Montgomery or PG county than there are from Northern Virginia? And no one is coming from those counties for 8:30 pm games in downtown DC, either, so it’s unclear how that’s a concern.
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 14, 2023 16:06:00 GMT -5
Instead of all he typical hand-wringing and expressions of helplessness, I think Georgetown University and its alumni base and donors should see these current events as motivation to finally get something done. Hell, call it an opportunity. Even if the plans of Leonsis to move Monumental to Virginia falls through or even if it succeeds but Cap One remains an option, Gtown should recognize that this situation is no longer acceptable and that it is vulnerable to being out in the cold in the not too distant future. Leonsis can’t be trusted obviously. But most of all Georgetown needs an arena for all of its indoor teams. One thing that is not discussed enough on these boards is how much of a disadvantage he men’s basketball team has been over the last couple of decades by not having the true type of homecourt advantage that pretty much all other D1 squads take for granted. How many losses can we assume was the result of not having the type of atmosphere opponents needed to overcome even during the peak JT III years? Dozens? More than a hundred? With that hit of losses means diminishing returns, which means the program’s national rep falls which means less interest in Hoya games from Georgetown students, Georgetown alums, Georgetown fans and casual sports observers. This leads to increasingly embarrassing attendance which leads more dismal oncourt results and often less than stellar recruiting. Which leads to more dubious oncourt results and less public attention/support. It adds up to a spiral down towards redundancy. Way back in the days of the Cap Center, it was not a huge detriment because playing most of a college team’s games in an NBA arena seemed like a neat novelty only afforded to a select few. But for nearly 30 years that type of venue setting has gradually lost its appeal. Enough of that. The events of the past couple of days may be a gift of sorts, a more true wakeup call ever before for the Hoya community to use every resource and chance at brainstorming to put themselves in a position to end this nonsense once and all. The indoor sports teams all need a new home, not just men’s hoops. If the Georgetown women were a ranked team and were facing off against a decent opponent for a home game where the heck would they play that would not embarrass the university? What venue would suffice to make a network actually want to televise a game from that location? The same could be said for a sport like volleyball. McD is too antiquated and outdated. There is going to be the typical pushback over what can’t be done, blah, blah, blah, but don’t you guys want to compete? Do you ever imagine what these programs could be with even a small on-campus arena to provide a true homecourt advantage? Do people here ever imagine big? I would argue that, if future conference stability holds, getting such an arena could be the last important piece towards returned and SUSTAINED prominence. Yes, there are countless hurdles to clear. Still maybe instead of people automatically thinking something can’t be done, maybe the thinking should be how they can go about getting it done. If I had a penny for every time I have read posts about the notorious residents of the surrounding neighborhoods I could probably finance a new arena on my own. Stop making those folks into mythic giants. Georgetown University was around before those neighborhoods and the people currently living in them. That part of DC is named Georgetown because of the school itself. Put some respect on the school. GU has plenty of smart, crafty alum and enough money to hire even more of those type of people who never graduated from the school. Georgetown University should fight to have say of just what it can build on its own damn property. Why would the neighbors be so worried about an influx of hundreds or even thousands of cars during on-campus games. Its not as if the school has enough space to accommodate such parking anyway. Maybe during games the school can run shuttle buses, ala an airport, back and forth to a parking lot a couple of miles away. That may sound crazy but what’s even more maddening is just sitting around doing nothing without looking to the future. That’s nuts. I’ve been around long enough to recall very conversations on this very board in which the consensus was that GU wouldn’t be able to get certain things done such as the new practice facility or being able to go out and pay top dollar for a coach. I remember when people I respect thought ten plus years ago that the new Big East could not survive or thrive and therefore the Hoyas would be stuck in a lowly mid-major conference. The negativity never ends. For once will we start believing in possibilities that are more positive? It’s a nice thought, but the scenario you describe is an incredible longshot. Like 1000-1. But hey, sometimes those hit.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Dec 18, 2023 19:18:15 GMT -5
Would it be way too much to ask for for the Post maybe to report on whether Healy Hall had any heads up on this? Then maybe ask-what is your plan? After the laughter subsides…ask if there is a plan to have a plan?
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Dec 19, 2023 8:41:20 GMT -5
Ted must have given DeGioia a heads up on this months ago…yes? If not, i think we can stop pretending he’s about to get super generous on us and just proceed now as tho he is a competitor rather than as an alum?
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 19, 2023 10:47:03 GMT -5
Ted must have given DeGioia a heads up on this months ago…yes? If not, i think we can stop pretending he’s about to get super generous on us and just proceed now as tho he is a competitor rather than as an alum? I would speculate Leonsis would not have tipped off Jack because his negotiations with NoVa authorities would likely have been cloaked with confidentiality. Bowser's too little-too-late response supports this speculation. It's all about the $$$$.
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Post by KenteKrazies on Dec 19, 2023 12:00:57 GMT -5
Would it be way too much to ask for for the Post maybe to report on whether Healy Hall had any heads up on this? Then maybe ask-what is your plan? After the laughter subsides…ask if there is a plan to have a plan? Calling Georgetown “Healy Hall” like we refer to the President as the “White House” or United States as “Washington” may be my new favorite thing 😂😂
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