thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 13:46:59 GMT -5
Even if it means 4k yes. Start with the emergency scenario we are now in that we predicted was coming for a half a century.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 13:49:00 GMT -5
Its breathtaking how vulnerable the entire Athletic Department is right now.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 13:55:31 GMT -5
Here is one thing NOT TO WORRY ABOUT NOW: where will we play when we are great and can sell 15k tickets?
Spend ZERO time on that concern now. Renovate mcD NOW.
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 13, 2023 13:57:00 GMT -5
Here is one thing NOT TO WORRY ABOUT NOW: where will we play when we are great and can sell 15k tickets? Spend ZERO time on that concern now. Renovate mcD NOW. Agreed - that's not a concern and it probably won't be ever again.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 13:57:24 GMT -5
The house is on fire. Having 5 figure games on espn right now is a hypothetical pool house addition discussion while the damn drapes are engulfed in flames.
Call the fire department. Now.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 14:01:05 GMT -5
Mcd might not be the only home for the Hoyas in 5 years, but we must 100% plan like it is. Never again with this crap.
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 13, 2023 14:01:42 GMT -5
Healy Hall should focus one only 1 thing: how quickly and for how much, can McD be renovated as the Only AD priority until completion. Have a few options. An immediate short term one, and one that allows some breathing room. Seriously, though - is this even possible? I don't think it is.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 14:04:38 GMT -5
Of course its possible-the plan is to do what we can now. That by definition must be possible. Whether its good enough for you or me is a different matter. But it should be the only priority until its resolved at least as an acceptable permanent home. Even if that means it holds only 4k. I would prefer 8k. That might be ballpark possible- need to try first. 10k is NEVER happening. And we don’t need it.
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 13, 2023 14:05:30 GMT -5
Of course its possible-the plan is to do what we can now. That by definition must be possible. Whether it's good enough for you or me is a different matter. But it should be the only priority until it's resolved at least as an acceptable permanent home. Even if that means it jolds 5k. I would prefer 8. 12 is NEVER happening. I totally agree with your points, but I just think it may be too late to turn McD into anything remotely acceptable.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 14:07:55 GMT -5
Why too late? We own the land already. A full blown renovation is i do not think totally susceptible to town zoning authority. What would make it too late?
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 14:08:40 GMT -5
Too poor and busy i can see.
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 13, 2023 14:11:40 GMT -5
Why too late? We own the land already. A full blown renovation is i do not think totally susceptible to town zoning authority. What would make it too late? I hope you're right - poorly phrased by me on being too late. I had always assumed the neighbors problem was too large an issue to overcome on any McD project and that it was essentially a non-starter.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 14:16:20 GMT -5
I mean in a way i certainly agree we are very very very late. But hopefully not yet “too” late.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Dec 13, 2023 15:09:10 GMT -5
Of course its possible-the plan is to do what we can now. That by definition must be possible. Whether its good enough for you or me is a different matter. But it should be the only priority until its resolved at least as an acceptable permanent home. Even if that means it holds only 4k. I would prefer 8k. That might be ballpark possible- need to try first. 10k is NEVER happening. And we don’t need it. Cameron Indoor at Duke only seat about 9,000, so if there was anyway to renovate McD to increase it to somewhere near 8,000, that would be more than fine.' As mentioned, if the program has a few games a year where they need extra capacity, then I am sure they will be able to make arrangements to play at a large facility. Other schools (Nova and St John's) do that now. I don't mean to minimize the complexity of an undertaking like this, but it is not impossible to make this happen. Money and a resolve to make it a reality are the things needed.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 13, 2023 17:13:01 GMT -5
Of course its possible-the plan is to do what we can now. That by definition must be possible. Whether its good enough for you or me is a different matter. But it should be the only priority until its resolved at least as an acceptable permanent home. Even if that means it holds only 4k. I would prefer 8k. That might be ballpark possible- need to try first. 10k is NEVER happening. And we don’t need it. I'm not going to say with 100% confidence that it's *impossible* because I Am Not A Lawyer (paging hoyatables) but I would not say "of course it's possible." Let us recall the transportation provisions of the Campus Plan: Let us further recall that the burden is on the University to prove that any deviation from the uses in the approved Plan are not objectionable: Increasing the capacity of McDonough and increasing the intensity of its use to be the home for 18-ish games per year would be such a deviation, going against the following assertion: Now, maybe a good enough team of BigLaw mercenaries would be able to prevail against an endless series of lawsuits, but there is not a hell of a lot of appetite for that on Healy 2 either, considering how hard-won the new, non-adversarial Georgetown Community Partnership structure has been.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 13, 2023 17:56:32 GMT -5
I too am not an attorney for reasons previously discussed, but your bold type of "evening peak hour SOV trips" begs a question: what about weekends? If Rob Sgarlata somehow scheduled Villanova and 8,000 people showed up, the attorneys are not closing the place down. While I do not argue the McDonough or bust scenario, if there is no athletic audience allowed, why have any teams on campus?
One of Georgetown's visible missteps of this era is the desire, however noble, to shoehorn as many people and build as much square footage possible on campus for revenue purposes. This may not be the same priority going forward.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 13, 2023 18:11:47 GMT -5
I too am not an attorney for reasons previously discussed, but your bold type of " evening peak hour SOV trips" begs a question: what about weekends? If Rob Sgarlata somehow scheduled Villanova and 8,000 people showed up, the attorneys are not closing the place down. While I do not argue the McDonough or bust scenario, if there is no athletic audience allowed, why have any teams on campus? One of Georgetown's visible missteps of this era is the desire, however noble, to shoehorn as many people and build as much square footage possible on campus for revenue purposes. This may not be the same priority going forward. I don't recall the term being defined in the Plan, but "evening peak hour" should be understood to only apply to business days. One of Georgetown's visible missteps of this era is the desire, however noble, to shoehorn as many people and build as much square footage possible on campus for revenue purposes. This may not be the same priority going forward. Obviously it's not just about revenue. Recall that when the administration floated the idea of having a Rosslyn dorm to meet Campus Plan "students out of the neighborhood" commitments faster, it was the students themselves who fought against this on the grounds that no undergrad should have to live outside of Georgetown and that the residential experience is key. Times have obviously changed a bit since the pandemic - no protesting of the public policy 55 H Street dorm - but broadly speaking there is a strong student desire to have the Hilltop be the focal point of undergraduate life. Besides, look at all the agitation here about moving, to quote Casual, from an arena 4.1 miles from campus to one 6.1 miles from campus (as the crow flies, so a little misleading, but still). Compare that to the distance from Villanova to Wells Fargo or from Storrs to the XL Center.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 13, 2023 18:56:07 GMT -5
Obviously it's not just about revenue. Recall that when the administration floated the idea of having a Rosslyn dorm to meet Campus Plan "students out of the neighborhood" commitments faster, it was the students themselves who fought against this on the grounds that no undergrad should have to live outside of Georgetown and that the residential experience is key. Times have obviously changed a bit since the pandemic - no protesting of the public policy 55 H Street dorm - but broadly speaking there is a strong student desire to have the Hilltop be the focal point of undergraduate life. My argument may be more unpopular: reduce undergraduate main campus enrollment by 10 percent from 6,675 to not more than 6,000, and perhaps as low as 5,700, and reduce the on-campus graduate population by a comparable amount. Any admissions above that is directed to the Capital Campus. We can talk about this in detail on another thread.
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Post by reformation on Dec 13, 2023 19:50:18 GMT -5
If we don't at least explore playing at McD then we will have no bargaining power in whatever negotiation/option, we explore. Personally, I'd rather see all the games in Mcd. Turn it into Cameron North.
I played in HS at a 1000+ HS gym, 5000 seat Westchester County Center and a half empty MSG. It was certainly cool to play at MSG, but I was also happy with the others where we had big home court, rocking crowds etc. I think the 5K McD is big enough. The 5k WCC had enough of a big time feel (none of the future D1 or NBA stars had any issue with it)
I would also guess that we could manage the traffic assumptions by making sure that a certain % of the tickets are sold to students who obviously don't drive there. Also, we could charge more for the non-student tickets. Figure out some adjacent suite deal like they do at the ground floor of MSG (where one sits in regular lower court seats but also have access for a suite --if the economics work for Gtwn) Personally, I'd be willing to pay a more to see a game at McD than at Capital One. The revenue argument to do play off campus has rarely worked out for Gtwn and comes at a cost of lack of student interest and home court advantage which hurts the team.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 20:48:09 GMT -5
McDonough should really be the entire focus for a while imo. Without that home being improved immediately we will always be incredibly vulnerable. Let’s stop with these pipe dreams about buying land we don’t own. We don’t have that kind of time. Or the money. The immediate response has to be an All Hands effort to see 1. what can be done to mcD without external help 2. for how much money, 3. and how long will each take. Do a 5k capacity option and an 8k and price it out. I am of the opinion 8k is the reasonable ceiling for the campus on the high end. Nothing else should matter till that is done. Not a singles solitary thought before then about renting this or that rinky dink OFF CAMPUS non starter. I don’t want to hear it until we have an adequate home. A home home. If we don't at least explore playing at McD then we will have no bargaining power in whatever negotiation/option, we explore. Personally, I'd rather see all the games in Mcd. Turn it into Cameron North. I played in HS at a 1000+ HS gym, 5000 seat Westchester County Center and a half empty MSG. It was certainly cool to play at MSG, but I was also happy with the others where we had big home court, rocking crowds etc. I think the 5K McD is big enough. The 5k WCC had enough of a big time feel (none of the future D1 or NBA stars had any issue with it) I would also guess that we could manage the traffic assumptions by making sure that a certain % of the tickets are sold to students who obviously don't drive there. Also, we could charge more for the non-student tickets. Figure out some adjacent suite deal like they do at the ground floor of MSG (where one sits in regular lower court seats but also have access for a suite --if the economics work for Gtwn) Personally, I'd be willing to pay a more to see a game at McD than at Capital One. The revenue argument to do play off campus has rarely worked out for Gtwn and comes at a cost of lack of student interest and home court advantage which hurts the team.
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