RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,618
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 12, 2023 20:31:01 GMT -5
If the rent gets paid, Ted can kick rocks, the wizards are a laughing stock. Admin is basically comatose so this really does put things in a sucky position. Not so fun fact is in today’s dollars it only costed 23 million to build GW’s 5k arena, no idea about upkeep and renovations but I think that says Edit: this is what happens when you don’t punish teams and owners for sucking in professional sports, they some how have delusions of grandeur and think they’re owed billions in tax credits just for existing when many tax incentives deals are net negatives for states The Phone Booth is one of the very few cases where the subsidies were a net positive, but that's because it's a very multi-purpose and heavily used facility in the middle of the CBD, sitting on top of the crossroads of the region's transit infrastructure. Very few other examples of that, basically just MSG and TD Garden. The Sixers have been trying to get something similar, but it's getting a ton of pushback. Sports owners have been acting like anchor tenants (Macy's, Nordstrom, etc. famously do not pay rent because they are treated as magnets that attract traffic), and politicians have mostly been willing to oblige.
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 12, 2023 20:35:46 GMT -5
Have to think now that Cooley is here, he will at least be vocal and proactive to the extent he can...
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hoyas315
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,102
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Post by hoyas315 on Dec 12, 2023 20:38:43 GMT -5
Have to think now that Cooley is here, he will at least be vocal and proactive to the extent he can... See DFWs post. He knows
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hoyas315
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,102
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Post by hoyas315 on Dec 12, 2023 23:03:15 GMT -5
Weedsport High School(total enrollment of about 300)here in Central New York which is Class C has a better home court advantage than Georgetown. (Don't hold it against me for being so close to Sewercuse) Georgetown a school with an endowment in the Billions and basketball budget that is reportedly Top 15 in the country. It's embarrassing. Please don't tell me about the 1980s, 1990s, and how the arena was packed against Duke or Syracuse. I lived it. I've been to many of those games. I've also been to the "Carrier" Dome and many other places to watch Georgetown. The home atmosphere Georgetown has is not in the same ball park and never has been...no pun intended. On one given night, maybe. But not consistently.
Everyone knows the challenges (commonly known as impossibility) of Georgetown building an on campus arena. The reality is the program will never again be the dominant program in the sport like it was in the 80s without a solution to the home court advantage/arena. Can we win a national championship without it? Sure. Is it likely? No. Even less likely to see the program dominate year over year. Of course if the NIL money is there like reports have said that evens the playing field so to speak. But it is not 1984 and the TV/streaming exposure has even further leveled the playing field. I know this isn't news.
I love the Ed Cooley hire. I am confident that he will bring the program back to being more relevant but I think the ceiling is limited and the lack of a home court advantage/atmosphere is a big factor in my eyes.
This is not a reaction to tonight's game. But having said that the issue needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. The can has been kicked down the road far too long. I am aware of the problems DFW has laid out many times but I can't believe that in 2024ish a solution has not been developed. The lack of that screams to a dummy like me and future fans, recruits, and prospective students that basketball success is not a priority on par with the $13 million plus per year being spent.
Am I the only one embarrassed by the experience and optics?
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Post by bearsandbulls on Dec 12, 2023 23:51:11 GMT -5
Is there any chance at all that McDonough could be built "up" to a seating capacity of around 7000 or so......At my old school we had Harmon Gym back in the day and they literally took that same court which seated about 6500 and went upward and added seating up to 11000.....It was on the same footprint that was not enlarged...The campus is Cal, and even though bigger than Georgetown's campus is very limited in what you can do....Just wondering....And yes I know transport to campus for the games would be hard, but maybe offsite parking with busing in to games......The home court advantage would be unbelievable...
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 12, 2023 23:58:38 GMT -5
Is there any chance at all that McDonough could be built "up" to a seating capacity of around 7000 or so......At my old school we had Harmon Gym back in the day and they literally took that same court which seated about 6500 and went upward and added seating up to 11000.....It was on the same footprint that was not enlarged...The campus is Cal, and even though bigger than Georgetown's campus is very limited in what you can do....Just wondering....And yes I know transport to campus for the games would be hard, but maybe offsite parking with busing in to games......The home court advantage would be unbelievable... Revisiting this from a while back. There is less administrative interest now than in 2000, and the cost has gone up by a factor of 7x. www.hoyabasketball.com/features/renovation.htm
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,618
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 13, 2023 0:12:12 GMT -5
Is there any chance at all that McDonough could be built "up" to a seating capacity of around 7000 or so......At my old school we had Harmon Gym back in the day and they literally took that same court which seated about 6500 and went upward and added seating up to 11000.....It was on the same footprint that was not enlarged...The campus is Cal, and even though bigger than Georgetown's campus is very limited in what you can do....Just wondering....And yes I know transport to campus for the games would be hard, but maybe offsite parking with busing in to games......The home court advantage would be unbelievable... Revisiting this from a while back. There is less administrative interest now than in 2000, and the cost has gone up by a factor of 7x. www.hoyabasketball.com/features/renovation.htmWe're never gonna see eye to eye about this, I reckon, but just because a completely half-assed McDonough renovation and expansion plan that never got past the wishful thinking stage didn't draw immediate and overwhelming neighborhood opposition in late 90s Control Board-era DC doesn't mean that such a plan mooted today wouldn't provoke overwhelming and fatal opposition. Unless you build the separated Blue Line to campus first, Georgetown residents are not letting you build an arena drawing thousands of additional vehicles to campus. What is far more feasible, I think, is expanding ESA from its current 4,200 to somewhere closer to Carnesecca's 5,600... except it's a much newer and nicer facility.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,777
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 13, 2023 0:22:51 GMT -5
We're never gonna see eye to eye about this, I reckon, but just because a completely half-assed McDonough renovation and expansion plan that never got past the wishful thinking stage didn't draw immediate and overwhelming neighborhood opposition in late 90s Control Board-era DC doesn't mean that such a plan mooted today wouldn't provoke overwhelming and fatal opposition. Unless you build the separated Blue Line to campus first, Georgetown residents are not letting you build an arena drawing thousands of additional vehicles to campus.. I'm not arguing for this, inasmuch as there is no administrative will to pursue it. Maybe if they renamed McDonough as the " Center For New Designs In Digital Equity, Health, Sustainability, and the Common Good" it might get more than a passing glance...but seriously, there's no interest.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,618
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 13, 2023 0:43:47 GMT -5
We're never gonna see eye to eye about this, I reckon, but just because a completely half-assed McDonough renovation and expansion plan that never got past the wishful thinking stage didn't draw immediate and overwhelming neighborhood opposition in late 90s Control Board-era DC doesn't mean that such a plan mooted today wouldn't provoke overwhelming and fatal opposition. Unless you build the separated Blue Line to campus first, Georgetown residents are not letting you build an arena drawing thousands of additional vehicles to campus.. I'm not arguing for this, inasmuch as there is no administrative will to pursue it. Maybe if they renamed it the " Center For New Designs In Digital Equity, Health, Justice, Sustainability, and the Common Good" it might get more than a passing glance...but seriously, there's no interest. Yes, but there's no interest in large part because it is understood to be a complete non-starter. We recall that the most recent campus plan war (The War to End All Wars?) saw Ron Lewis & Co. coerce the University into rerouting the Dupont Circle GUTS so that it takes more than twice as long as it used to, forcing it to forego traversing public streets used by multiple high-frequency Metrobuses, simply because they hated the look of buses on their streets and being stuck behind them in traffic that they felt they could make go away (a power they do not hold over WMATA or private commuters). We also recall the extensive Transportation Demand Management requirements in the Campus Plan, designed to reduce University-related traffic wherever possible, but especially around rush hours. Similar concerns about traffic sunk the Wormley School development, the proposed grad school dorm on the Tombs/Wisey's block, etc. etc. Hell, they got that corrupt scofflaw Jack Evans to roll back DDOT-initiated traffic calming on Wisconsin Avenue north of Georgetown (https://www.wnyc.org/story/so-much-traffic-calming-dc-rolls-back-road-changes/) because they thought it was adding minutes to their commute, no matter the danger the design posed to the significant number of pedestrians in the area. If they thought the "Center For New Designs In Digital Equity, Health, Justice, Sustainability, and the Common Good" would generate significant additional trips to campus during peak times (no one cares about Saturday afternoons at 3,000-seat Cooper Field or Thursday afternoons at 1,625-seat and rarely-full Shaw Field), they'd protest the crap outta that too.
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jpj
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 259
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Post by jpj on Dec 13, 2023 2:28:35 GMT -5
An alternative reality/future with something similar to the current team we have - performance wise
Cap One/Potomac Yards (20,000 Capacity) Syracuse, Villanova, UConn, Marquette, St. Johns
Campus (2200 capacity) LeMoyne, Holy Cross, Mt St Mary, American, Jackson State, Coppin State, DePaul
Mystics Arena (4200 capacity) TCU, The Rest of the Big East
Probably saves a lot of rent money vs a whole season at Cap One
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Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,495
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Post by Elvado on Dec 13, 2023 5:46:34 GMT -5
It is not often that the same boat sails so many times
Reservoir Rd —French Chancery Mt Vernon McDonough Redo
We will be someone’s tenant into the foreseeable future and it did not have to be that way…
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 13, 2023 7:16:39 GMT -5
Which of these is the greatest hurdle to creating an actual facility to play Hoya games:
A - Money B - Location (including the political will it may take to fight off residents in Gtown area if the goal is to build something on campus) C - Time
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 13, 2023 9:58:20 GMT -5
Which of these is the greatest hurdle to creating an actual facility to play Hoya games: A - Money B - Location (including the political will it may take to fight off residents in Gtown area if the goal is to build something on campus) C - Time All of the above? A move to Potomac Yards would end my 48 years of Hoya basketball. A "nonbinding agreement." The owner of the Wizards and Capitals has reached a nonbinding arrangement that would move the teams from downtown D.C. to a new arena in Northern Virginia as soon as 2028, potentially upending the regional sports landscape. www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/12/13/capitals-wizards-move-alexandria-potomac-yard/
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 13, 2023 10:16:23 GMT -5
I understand why people are upset over this, and I agree in large part. We are already in a poor situation without a real ability to play games on campus, and the one place we can play downtown may disappear. But, we also need to be realistic to acknowledge certain facts:
1. If the new arena in Virginia opens in 2028, that realistically means there are 4-5 years before the Capital One Center could be closed.
2. Generally, there is no way we will get a new on campus arena. No land, no money, etc. And on top of that, even if we did figure something out on campus, and had a donor dump $300 million on DeGioia's desk to build it, it would still likely take more than 4-5 years to build. And that's assuming we could get past the neighborhood that would vehemently fight it every step of the way.
3. A McDonough renovation to increase capacity is clearly possible, but has many of the same problems as #2, just without the land problem. I think this needs to happen eventually, but we still need a bigger place to play marquee games and Big East games.
4. There is a chance that Capital One is not destroyed. I know, this seems unlikely, because why would you want to compete with the new Virginia arena? I really have no idea how this will shake out. Monumental Sports may have tax reasons to leave it there, etc. Certainly, Georgetown as an anchor tenant would not be enough to sustain it, but there likely is still demand for events in DC-proper. As others have said, an ideal situation would be Georgetown purchasing it, downsizing it, and renovating it to be a better college venue, but that is unlikely because of money.
5. In all likelihood, we will just play in Alexandria. I realize this will be annoying to a lot of people, but it will be an NBA arena, it will likely be top notch, and we will have no alternative. These ideas of playing in small venues or other universities are non-starters in my mind. As far as those echoing concerns about Georgetown not being allowed to play at a new arena, this seems silly, especially since a new arena could be designed to mitigate any problems.
For all the talk here, the most likely result is just that we play our games in Alexandria instead of downtown DC, and our attendance suffers. Or, if Capital One isn't razed, we play there until it falls apart. Those are by far the two most likely options. And, does anybody think that the Georgetown administration is concerned about this at all? As long as the option exists to play either at Capital One or the new Virginia arena, I think they'll be fine with either one.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 13, 2023 10:20:50 GMT -5
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Post by practice on Dec 13, 2023 13:01:21 GMT -5
Maybe if Ewing was named the architect or general contractor, DeGioia would get behind an on campus arena.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 13:41:18 GMT -5
Hard to capture how horrible this would be. Simplest is best. This is asinine. An alternative reality/future with something similar to the current team we have - performance wise Cap One/Potomac Yards (20,000 Capacity) Syracuse, Villanova, UConn, Marquette, St. Johns Campus (2200 capacity) LeMoyne, Holy Cross, Mt St Mary, American, Jackson State, Coppin State, DePaul Mystics Arena (4200 capacity) TCU, The Rest of the Big East Probably saves a lot of rent money vs a whole season at Cap One
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 13:43:30 GMT -5
Healy Hall should focus one only 1 thing: how quickly and for how much, can McD be renovated as the Only AD priority until completion. Have a few options. An immediate short term one, and one that allows some breathing room.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 13:45:05 GMT -5
Playing in a small or even medium gym that we don’t own like St E or GMU or AU AND is not on campus must be a TOTAL NON STARTER.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Dec 13, 2023 13:45:48 GMT -5
Renovate McDonough NOW.
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