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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 11, 2016 17:20:55 GMT -5
Against the 2-3 zone, which Hoya flashes to the elbow? Peak? Been wondering the same thing. So many options. Pryor, and LJ could live there. Jesse and Marcus should also be effective there but not sure about Jesse's passing.. But oh man if only Ike would come alive. He was born to eat up the Syracuse 2-3 zone from the elbow. Yes we have a lot of options. Agau is actually a great passer for that scenario but we haven't seen enough to know how his mid range game is at the moment.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 11, 2016 18:37:44 GMT -5
Again is definitely an underrated passer, but more so with his back to the basket.
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jester
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by jester on Dec 11, 2016 19:08:03 GMT -5
Let's get another good win and boost for our confidence. For the record:
Wins:
RPI 51 Oregon RPI 81 La Salle
Losses:
RPI 24 Maryland RPI 30 Arkansas State RPI 38 Wisconsin RPI 44 Oklahoma St
Cuse:
Wins:
RPI 69 Monmouth
Losses:
RPI 16 South Carolina RPI 38 Wisconsin RPI 148 UConn
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 11, 2016 21:37:21 GMT -5
Against the 2-3 zone, which Hoya flashes to the elbow? Peak? While we have a bunch of guys that can make that shot, we haven't seen a lot of quick, smart passing. I'd go with Pryor, Peak and Agau in that order.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Dec 11, 2016 21:41:57 GMT -5
Against the 2-3 zone, which Hoya flashes to the elbow? Peak? While we have a bunch of guys that can make that shot, we haven't seen a lot of quick, smart passing. I'd go with Pryor, Peak and Agau in that order. This used to be what Ike did well.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 11, 2016 21:44:10 GMT -5
While we have a bunch of guys that can make that shot, we haven't seen a lot of quick, smart passing. I'd go with Pryor, Peak and Agau in that order. This used to be what Ike did well. Paul White too. But I'd be surprised if Isaac were put in that role with a facial fracture. Even if he's ready to play, that spot in the zone is an easy place in which to catch a shot to the face.
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zxhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by zxhoya on Dec 11, 2016 22:09:38 GMT -5
This used to be what Ike did well. Paul White too. But I'd be surprised if Isaac were put in that role with a facial fracture. Even if he's ready to play, that spot in the zone is an easy place in which to catch a shot to the face. Paul White has the perfect game to be extremely good against the zone. Great BBall IQ, excellent passer and pretty good touch and he has a very good handle for a forward to dribble in the heart of the Zone and do damage. I think Pryor especially can be very effective against it as he has a nice touch and lift to score from that free throw line area. I think LJ will attack the zone from the outside by driving through and around the Syracuse zone and I think Govan will have another good game. I think Tre will have greater role in this game as a zone stretcher and may play along side of Jagan some in this game but it will as usual be about our defense and rebounding. Can't wait.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 11, 2016 22:35:43 GMT -5
Paul White too. But I'd be surprised if Isaac were put in that role with a facial fracture. Even if he's ready to play, that spot in the zone is an easy place in which to catch a shot to the face. Paul White has the perfect game to be extremely good against the zone. Great BBall IQ, excellent passer and pretty good touch and he has a very good handle for a forward to dribble in the heart of the Zone and do damage. I think Pryor especially can be very effective against it as he has a nice touch and lift to score from that free throw line area. I think LJ will attack the zone from the outside by driving through and around the Syracuse zone and I think Govan will have another good game. I think Tre will have greater role in this game as a zone stretcher and may play along side of Jagan some in this game but it will as usual be about our defense and rebounding. Can't wait. I definitely agree with the first two points. Pryor has shown some flashes in terms of his passing and has great lift on his jumper as well as having the ability to get to the rim in traffic. He's not limited to pulling up for the foul line jumper. He can pressure the D and cause them to foul or dump it down to the baseline to Akoy or Govan or Bradley (depending on the lineup). As for Tre, I could go either way in this game. He's yet to show the ability to pass effectively to the low block or into the middle of the zone. That could limit his minutes. Jagan, on the other hand, seems to have more skill in that area even as a freshman. I have the feeling that keeping LJ and Pryor out of foul trouble is going to be crucial (duh) more in this game than some of our previous ones.
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Dec 11, 2016 23:29:35 GMT -5
Paul White has the perfect game to be extremely good against the zone. Great BBall IQ, excellent passer and pretty good touch and he has a very good handle for a forward to dribble in the heart of the Zone and do damage. I think Pryor especially can be very effective against it as he has a nice touch and lift to score from that free throw line area. I think LJ will attack the zone from the outside by driving through and around the Syracuse zone and I think Govan will have another good game. I think Tre will have greater role in this game as a zone stretcher and may play along side of Jagan some in this game but it will as usual be about our defense and rebounding. Can't wait. I definitely agree with the first two points. Pryor has shown some flashes in terms of his passing and has great lift on his jumper as well as having the ability to get to the rim in traffic. He's not limited to pulling up for the foul line jumper. He can pressure the D and cause them to foul or dump it down to the baseline to Akoy or Govan or Bradley (depending on the lineup). As for Tre, I could go either way in this game. He's yet to show the ability to pass effectively to the low block or into the middle of the zone. That could limit his minutes. Jagan, on the other hand, seems to have more skill in that area even as a freshman. I have the feeling that keeping LJ and Pryor out of foul trouble is going to be crucial (duh) more in this game than some of our previous ones. I definitely don't disagree with you about Tre's ability to make the entry passes and I guess that's why I can envision him paired with Jagan or LJ as those 2 would be the primary ball handlers and Tre would be used to stretch the zone. Of course Tre's ability to make these shots will determine his minutes but he's been pretty consistent this season, especially when he makes his 1st jump shot. I love to see those 3's falling from Tre but if they aren't faling, he can be a liability.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 11, 2016 23:39:53 GMT -5
This could go in the La Salle thread too, but we might as well look to the future. I think the La Salle game gave us reasons for optimism, here are a few observations:
1. This team is going to be an offensive team, rather than a defensive one. Meaning, I think our ceiling on offense is higher than defense. That said, I think we can improve on both, but it's not hard to see the makings of a better offense: one of the PGs performing well, Pryor/Peak continuing to do well, Agau being the solid big man and good passer we need, Govan being an offensive threat everywhere, and Derrickson being fully back from injury and regaining his touch.
2. The PGs I think are the biggest weakness of all those offense factors. Right now, I think JT3 needs to ride the hot hand. Against Elon, Campbell, against La Salle, it was Mosely. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was Mulmore one of these days.
3. We need to embrace our free throw dominance. As of today, we are 2/351 in FTA/FGA, which means we are excellent at getting to the line. This has ALWAYS been a problem, and it represents a significant change for JT3. The 2015 team drew a fair amount of fouls, but this year's performance is the best JT3 has had. And we are excellent at shooting FTs too. Great combination.
Even better, we are 168/351 in fouling our opponents. This represents a huge difference. Since the rule changes, our rank on that had been 345, 305, 331. So we basically went from three years of being a team that fouls way, way, way too much to one that's about average. I'll take that. It's a huge improvement, and given that the players are the same, clearly the staff made a change. Whether it's JT3, or one of the new assistants, I don't know, but it's a good change.
4. Against La Salle, we improved in clearly visible ways. We still have about 17 days until the start of Big East play. Assuming that they continue to practice and put in the same effort, I think we can see a lot of dividends on defense.
All that said, there are some reasons for pessimism/concern:
1. Defense. Our defense is still pretty weak. It has improved since Copeland has been injured (I am not trying to be negative about him, but his defense was really poor, and dragged the team defense down), but it's still not great. I don't think we will ever be a great defensive team, but we need to get better.
2. Rebounding. We just need to get better. There's not much else to say.
3. Press. The press did not work against La Salle. I just don't see it being a huge benefit going forward - I am fine trying it and using it when appropriate, but it's just not good enough against decent to good ball handling teams. So, one of two things needs to happen - either the press improves a lot, or we just don't use it much.
4. The PG situation mentioned above is a cause of concern, only because there are a lot of question marks. Will there be a hot hand each game? Will someone step forward and become the primary guy? Or will it be highly variable?
5. Right now, we are dependent a lot on Pryor and Peak's shooting. Pryor is currently shooting 52.5% from three. This is probably not sustainable, but he could certainly be 40%. I think we solve dependence on them by guys like Govan/Derrickson stepping up (and they did against La Salle).
Overall, I am actually pretty optimistic coming out of the last game. I think this will serve us well against Syracuse, but winning at the Carrier Dome is not an easy task. While Syracuse is a good team generally, there are a few things acting in our favor:
- Syracuse doesn't draw fouls much and they are not a good FT shooting team. To the degree the officials call the game tightly, we should benefit.
- Syracuse is also a very poor defensive rebounding team. Part of this is likely the zone, but still it's there.
- Syracuse doesn't shoot two's well. But they do shoot threes pretty well (but so did La Salle and we shut them down to some degree).
- Both teams have a very long defensive possession length (Syracuse is the longest in D1), so I wouldn't expect a hugely fast pace in this one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2016 23:54:32 GMT -5
This would be a good game for Ike to have a breakout.... Get in the mid-range kid and go to work
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 12, 2016 1:08:35 GMT -5
Who is our best bet for busting the Syracuse zone?
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,315
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 12, 2016 6:49:10 GMT -5
Who is our best bet for busting the Syracuse zone? Pryor. See #5 above from hoyasaxa2003's comment on Pryor's 3 pt FG %.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 12, 2016 6:55:48 GMT -5
Need shots from Marcus.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 12, 2016 8:24:58 GMT -5
Against the 2-3 zone, which Hoya flashes to the elbow? Peak? While we have a bunch of guys that can make that shot, we haven't seen a lot of quick, smart passing. I'd go with Pryor, Peak and Agau in that order. It's going to be everyone. We are, I am nearly certain, going to run a motion type offense with various players flashing. That's the best way to deal with it, especially when the zone is likely keying on one or two guys from deep (Rodney and LJ). You put them deep, which opens up the middle for others. And you put them at the foul line, which gives you a good option there. And the movement makes things more challenging for the zone. We have typically schemed well against it, so I fully expect we will again. Doesn't mean the shots will fall, but I think k we are well suited offensively to deal with it.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by GUJook97 on Dec 12, 2016 10:15:00 GMT -5
This could go in the La Salle thread too, but we might as well look to the future. I think the La Salle game gave us reasons for optimism, here are a few observations: 3. We need to embrace our free throw dominance. As of today, we are 2/351 in FTA/FGA, which means we are excellent at getting to the line. This has ALWAYS been a problem, and it represents a significant change for JT3. The 2015 team drew a fair amount of fouls, but this year's performance is the best JT3 has had. And we are excellent at shooting FTs too. Great combination. Even better, we are 168/351 in fouling our opponents. This represents a huge difference. Since the rule changes, our rank on that had been 345, 305, 331. So we basically went from three years of being a team that fouls way, way, way too much to one that's about average. I'll take that. It's a huge improvement, and given that the players are the same, clearly the staff made a change. Whether it's JT3, or one of the new assistants, I don't know, but it's a good change. I agree. I think this is very significant because it also has a psychological impact on how refs officiate us. I think it is how teams like Nova turned things around, too. When you change your reputation, you start getting to the line more and you get away with moving your feet and hands more on defense. This is the best thing about the team this year, and yeah, kudos to the staff for it.
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2ndRyan
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Post by 2ndRyan on Dec 12, 2016 10:46:03 GMT -5
Final game at Manley-Georgetown win. Dedication of the Boeheim court at the Carrier Dome- Georgetown win. Pearl Washington tribute?
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 12, 2016 12:38:15 GMT -5
Who is our best bet for busting the Syracuse zone? Pryor. See #5 above from hoyasaxa2003's comment on Pryor's 3 pt FG %. What I love about Pryor is that against the vise zone you have to be ready to catch and shoot. He catches the ball and is seemingly always ready to go up.
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lda05816
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Post by lda05816 on Dec 12, 2016 13:27:01 GMT -5
Playing against the zone will not be easy but I think we are set up fairly well to go against it. Jagan, LJ and Rodney need to provide the dribble penetration to breakdown the zone. I think this is a game where Brad can really help beat them up down low and snag some offensive boards. I haven't seen much of Cuse this year but it seems to me the zone isn't as effective when they have a guy like Coleman playing the middle, we can really put pressure on him with an athletic guy at the foul line and if Lydon or Roberson are in the center, I think Brad can post deep and punish them. I hope if the 3's fall early, we don't fall in love and settle. It's almost as if that benefits Cuse when a team shoots well early because it typically doesn't last the whole game.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 12, 2016 13:32:01 GMT -5
Cuse best win seems to be Monmouth. They got trounced by Wisconsin (like us), South Carolina & lost a close one to UConn at home. White & Lydon seem to be the main guys. Gotta get to the line to avoid long scoring lapses.
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