This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Nov 17, 2016 23:43:31 GMT -5
This team has under performed against several teams for years... Tonight's loss should not come as a shock as everyone has seen this in the 10 years since the Final Four. The bottom may be falling out now, which means the program held on to JTIII too long. Missing the NCAA's in 3 out of 4 years is a possibility this year During the halftime show even Steve Lavin did not have the Hoyas in his top 6 teams in the Be Things definitely are not trending in the right direction for JTIII nor the program Spot on again. I don't know where you get this stuff but we have problems that many here don't want to see. They see it, they just don't want to acknowledge it. They are here tonight reading the comments and not posting.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 17, 2016 23:44:59 GMT -5
I am glad another thread was started for this discussion, since it's never been raised before elsewhere.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 17, 2016 23:46:49 GMT -5
I am glad another thread was started for this discussion, since it's never been raised before elsewhere. The old one may have been deleted as I'm sure the creator looked. Doesn't change the discussion.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 17, 2016 23:51:15 GMT -5
JT3 is 3-12 over his past 15 games, with wins over St. Johns, USC Upstate, and DePaul. When is it enough? Even if I agreed with you, and I don't, you don't fire a coach after three games. Even if you believed a top tier replacement wanted to come to Georgetown (highly questionable), the market isn't open now. So let's say we improve enough to make the tournament, get in as a 10 seed, and make the Final Four, similar to Syracuse last year? Would everyone suddenly think everything was great? My sense is yes, even though it might not be logical. Whether you all on the fire bandwagon want him fired now or not, it's not happening now, and we have a full season ahead of us. Personally, I want to see our team succeed despite this poor start, I want to see the coaches succeed and the players succeed. I am not saying it's going to happen, but seeing many people giving up on the season is disappointing. I realize it feels like last year, and it does to me in a lot of ways too. But as a fan, I hope we improve.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Nov 17, 2016 23:53:37 GMT -5
I missed the game. We were getting blown out by Arkansas State and had to fight to make it respectable? So embarrassing. I thought we would be better. But those who thought a 15-18 team that added an unheralded juco transfer, an unheralded freshman, and an unheralded grad transfer were going to morph this team into something elite were delusional. It was always going to be an uphill climb back to the tournament.
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jester
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Post by jester on Nov 17, 2016 23:57:38 GMT -5
JT3 is 3-12 over his past 15 games, with wins over St. Johns, USC Upstate, and DePaul. When is it enough? Ouch baby
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 18, 2016 0:01:37 GMT -5
Highlights:
1. Ark St never trailed.
2. Ark St had 2% chance of winning according to KenPom. Biggest upset this season in all of college basketball.
3. GU 22-23 point favorites depending on source.
4. GU trailed by as much as 23
5. 1-2, Georgetown's record at McD since 09-10. Lost to ODU in 09.
6. Double digit lead for more than 75% of the game by Ark St.
7. Ark St projected to finish 10 of 12 in Sun Belt.
8. 274 was Ark St's KenPom rating going into the game which jumped to 235 after win.
9. For second straight year, GU loses to one bid conference at home (Radford).
10. Since FF, GU has 10 losses against traditional mid to low major teams. Davidson (08), ODU (09), OU (10), VCU (11), FGCU (13), Northeastern (13), Radford (15), Monmouth (15), UNC-Asheville (15), Ark St (16)
11. 287 days since Ark St beat a D-1 program (South Alabama).
12. Ark St made one NCAA tournament in 1999.
13. BE has four losses this season as a conference. Two belong to GU.
14. Ark St. 1-0 all time against GU.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 18, 2016 0:14:56 GMT -5
It seems like most people want to address the coaching situation, which has about 4 other threads devoted to it. Instead, I want to focus on the actual game and what I saw, what the problems were, and where we might see improvement:
(1) Defense. Our defense tonight was atrocious. We cannot stay in front of our guy. One of the biggest problems on defense is continuously Copeland. He's a pretty good offensive player, but his defense is really, really, really bad for somebody who plays 30+ minutes every game. In the Maryland game, there were several positions where he totally lost his guy leading to a three; at the end where Trimble when coast-to-coast he moved away from Trimble for some unknown reason.
The same thing happened tonight. It's like we are playing 4 on 5 on defense. This is a problem. I don't think Copeland really deserves as much time as he is getting if he cannot improve his defense.
(2) The press was an abysmal failure tonight. What is the purpose of the press if it yields no turnovers? There were several instances where Arkansas State inbound passed to a corner, yet the second closest defender didn't even try to trap. I realize you cannot trap on every possession but we barely did it, unlike in the USC Upstate game.
I know the 1980s fans love pressing, but this team is not doing it effectively. So again, what's the purpose?
(3) Jagan Mosely totally killed us on offense tonight. 60 Offensive efficiency rating. 0-6 on threes. Three turnovers. 4 fouls. Yikes. I did like his defense, and I think he can develop into a better player, but he's not there yet.
(4) For all we've heard about Pryor, he seems like a pretty good defender and a good spot up shooter, and that's it. Where's the aggression? I know he's been criticized as a ball-hog by some, but he's not really attacking the rim as much as I expected based on descriptions from Kenner.
(5) Govan had a good game overall, and Peak was pretty good too. Right now, they are our best two players. We miss Derrickson. I am hoping he didn't play tonight to rest up for Maui, rather than because he's injured worse than he was a few days ago.
Overall, we just aren't very good right now. Peak and Govan have been solid. The much-celebrated newcomer guard trio of Mosely, Mulmore, and Pryor really hasn't shown much outside the first game when Pryor was on fire. They are attacking more than last year, which yields more free throws for us, so that's a good thing. And outside of USC Upstate the press hasn't been effective. So it's not surprising we aren't doing better.
How do we get better? The defense needs to get better. Copeland either needs to improve substantially or play less. He's just too much of a defensive liability. We need to work better together and stay in front of opponents. On offense, I think we need to work better at getting Pryor some open threes and kick-outs. There were a few times tonight where we had guys open on the perimeter, but nobody was looking for them.
Lastly, and this is on the coaches and players, we need to play smarter. At this point, my goal is to get this team into the NCAA tournament. Very much a possibility, but not unless we improve on the current performance.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 18, 2016 0:15:50 GMT -5
Highlights: 1. Ark St never trailed. 2. Ark St had 2% chance of winning according to KenPom. Biggest upset this season in all of college basketball. 3. GU 22-23 point favorites depending on source. 4. GU trailed by as much as 23 5. 1-2, Georgetown's record at McD since 09-10. Lost to ODU in 09. 6. Double digit lead for more than 75% of the game by Ark St. 7. Ark St projected to finish 10 of 12 in Sun Belt. 8. 274 was Ark St's KenPom rating going into the game which jumped to 235 after win. 9. For second straight year, GU loses to one bid conference at home (Radford). 10. Since FF, GU has 10 losses against traditional mid to low major teams. Davidson (08), ODU (09), OU (10), VCU (11), FGCU (13), Northeastern (13), Radford (15), Monmouth (15), UNC-Asheville (15), Ark St (16) 11. 287 days since Ark St beat a D-1 program (South Alabama). 12. Ark St made one NCAA tournament in 1999. 13. BE has four losses this season as a conference. Two belong to GU. 14. Ark St. 1-0 all time against GU. If you're going to direct quote/paraphrase someone else's published work, at least have the courtesy to link the source. www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/23-amazing-stats-facts-about-georgetowns-baffling-home-loss-to-arkansas-state/
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 18, 2016 0:17:47 GMT -5
Highlights: 1. Ark St never trailed. 2. Ark St had 2% chance of winning according to KenPom. Biggest upset this season in all of college basketball. 3. GU 22-23 point favorites depending on source. 4. GU trailed by as much as 23 5. 1-2, Georgetown's record at McD since 09-10. Lost to ODU in 09. 6. Double digit lead for more than 75% of the game by Ark St. 7. Ark St projected to finish 10 of 12 in Sun Belt. 8. 274 was Ark St's KenPom rating going into the game which jumped to 235 after win. 9. For second straight year, GU loses to one bid conference at home (Radford). 10. Since FF, GU has 10 losses against traditional mid to low major teams. Davidson (08), ODU (09), OU (10), VCU (11), FGCU (13), Northeastern (13), Radford (15), Monmouth (15), UNC-Asheville (15), Ark St (16) 11. 287 days since Ark St beat a D-1 program (South Alabama). 12. Ark St made one NCAA tournament in 1999. 13. BE has four losses this season as a conference. Two belong to GU. 14. Ark St. 1-0 all time against GU. If you're going to direct quote someone else's work, at least have the courtesy to link the source. www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/23-amazing-stats-facts-about-georgetowns-baffling-home-loss-to-arkansas-state/I paraphrased effectively. Same as the students do when they write papers.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 18, 2016 0:18:54 GMT -5
Funny Dan! I also like the Arkansas State being 1-0 against us stat. That's really meaningful. I also like how that counts as an "amazing" stat these days.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 18, 2016 0:22:15 GMT -5
Funny Dan! I also like the Arkansas State being 1-0 against us stat. That's really meaningful. I also like how that counts as an "amazing" stat these days. I posted it in a condensed format for the readers not Dan so give the appropriate credit. As for Ark St being 1-0 against us that is meaningful because we suck and don't ignore the rest of it.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 18, 2016 0:36:49 GMT -5
While there's no excusing tonight's effort, I'm wondering whether the late game collapse against the Terps carried over into this game, and adversely affected the Hoyas. Again, not looking to make any excuse. . .but they looked numb in the first half. The game was over very early. When Pryor had the put back dunk and there was no carry-over, it was a wrap. Zero energy for the first half and it was over. The posters/poster wondering where the "apologists" were to make "excuses" after the loss is moronic at best. Generally speaking, the fire JT3 crowd are the ones that show up when it fits their narrative. The ones that realize that he's not getting fired 3 games into a season, regardless of their personal feelings about what has transpired, don't post when the Hoyas lose because it's pointless and there's plenty of blame, coaching staff included, to go around. I didn't read all of this thread but I read a good portion. Some of you need to check yourselves with regard to how you talk about a freshman 3 months and 3 games into a college career. Dust off your memory of yourself at that age and picture what it might be like reading some of this BS about yourself from older idiots that don't know you at all. You're Georgetown fans. Rip the coach all you want. Root for the kids. Capping expectations for a freshman after 3 preseason games? Jeez.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Nov 18, 2016 0:38:22 GMT -5
I blame all this on Trump and Steve Bannon (dirty alumnus).
Also, I can now enjoy the season, as I usually get nervous when we play good teams. Now I just don't have to worry about getting the W. If we do, fine, if not, no big deal. The team is like when they were in the 60s; always hoping for a win, and happy when we did.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 18, 2016 0:41:03 GMT -5
I blame all this on Trump and Steve Bannon (dirty alumnus). Also, I can now enjoy the season, as I usually get nervous when we play good teams. Now I just don't have to worry about getting the W. If we do, fine, if not, no big deal. The team is like when they were in the 60s; always hoping for a win, and happy when we did. Only thing similar to Trump is the need to drain the swamp. What's been in place for a long time isn't working.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 18, 2016 0:44:34 GMT -5
While there's no excusing tonight's effort, I'm wondering whether the late game collapse against the Terps carried over into this game, and adversely affected the Hoyas. Again, not looking to make any excuse. . .but they looked numb in the first half. The game was over very early. When Pryor had the put back dunk and there was no carry-over, it was a wrap. Zero energy for the first half and it was over. The posters/poster wondering where the "apologists" were to make "excuses" after the loss is moronic at best. Generally speaking, the fire JT3 crowd are the ones that show up when it fits their narrative. The ones that realize that he's not getting fired 3 games into a season, regardless of their personal feelings about what has transpired, don't post when the Hoyas lose because it's pointless and there's plenty of blame, coaching staff included, to go around. I didn't read all of this thread but I read a good portion. Some of you need to check yourselves with regard to how you talk about a freshman 3 months and 3 games into a college career. Dust off your memory of yourself at that age and picture what it might be like reading some of this BS about yourself from older idiots that don't know you at all. You're Georgetown fans. Rip the coach all you want. Root for the kids. Capping expectations for a freshman after 3 preseason games? Jeez. TAS, you are out there on this one. It's becoming all too often to fit a "narrative". It's continual and humiliating to this University and program. We lost in our on campus gym to a program that doesn't normally beat bad D-I teams. How much worse does it need to get for you to see what it is. Save the root for the kids spiel as this is a business. D-I basketball with the money involved isn't about student athletes. We should push for an IVY entry in all sports if that's what we want.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 18, 2016 0:48:36 GMT -5
I blame all this on Trump and Steve Bannon (dirty alumnus). Also, I can now enjoy the season, as I usually get nervous when we play good teams. Now I just don't have to worry about getting the W. If we do, fine, if not, no big deal. The team is like when they were in the 60s; always hoping for a win, and happy when we did. Only thing similar to Trump is the need to drain the swamp. What's been in place for a long time isn't working. You might want to Google "drain the swamp" so that you can realize the irony of that post.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 18, 2016 0:53:50 GMT -5
The game was over very early. When Pryor had the put back dunk and there was no carry-over, it was a wrap. Zero energy for the first half and it was over. The posters/poster wondering where the "apologists" were to make "excuses" after the loss is moronic at best. Generally speaking, the fire JT3 crowd are the ones that show up when it fits their narrative. The ones that realize that he's not getting fired 3 games into a season, regardless of their personal feelings about what has transpired, don't post when the Hoyas lose because it's pointless and there's plenty of blame, coaching staff included, to go around. I didn't read all of this thread but I read a good portion. Some of you need to check yourselves with regard to how you talk about a freshman 3 months and 3 games into a college career. Dust off your memory of yourself at that age and picture what it might be like reading some of this BS about yourself from older idiots that don't know you at all. You're Georgetown fans. Rip the coach all you want. Root for the kids. Capping expectations for a freshman after 3 preseason games? Jeez. TAS, you are out there on this one. It's becoming all too often to fit a "narrative". It's continual and humiliating to this University and program. We lost in our on campus gym to a program that doesn't normally beat bad D-I teams. How much worse does it need to get for you to see what it is. Save the root for the kids spiel as this is a business. D-I basketball with the money involved isn't about student athletes. We should push for an IVY entry in all sports if that's what we want. You have people that agree with your side of things writing kids off three games into their first season. If that's okay with you, fine. I have access to the block feature that I've never used because I prefer to think that I want to be exposed to differing opinions. It's a fact that the "fire JT3" crowd shows up when it fits their narrative and those of us that feel like the status quo is less susceptible to change, regardless of our level of outrage or lack thereof, do that to a much lesser degree. But ripping freshmen 3 games in is over the line. If you don't agree, we're not going to agree on much of anything.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 18, 2016 1:01:49 GMT -5
TAS, you are out there on this one. It's becoming all too often to fit a "narrative". It's continual and humiliating to this University and program. We lost in our on campus gym to a program that doesn't normally beat bad D-I teams. How much worse does it need to get for you to see what it is. Save the root for the kids spiel as this is a business. D-I basketball with the money involved isn't about student athletes. We should push for an IVY entry in all sports if that's what we want. You have people that agree with your side of things writing kids off three games into their first season. If that's okay with you, fine. I have access to the block feature that I've never used because I prefer to think that I want to be exposed to differing opinions. It's a fact that the "fire JT3" crowd shows up when it fits their narrative and those of us that feel like the status quo is less susceptible to change, regardless of our level of outrage or lack thereof, do that to a much lesser degree. But ripping freshmen 3 games in is over the line. If you don't agree, we're not going to agree on much of anything. I haven't nor do I think the talk on this board is ripping players. The criticism tonight which I've read is about the coach. There may have been someone ripping players in isolation but that's not the tone so to try and bring that in is missing the sentiment of this board. There is a fundamental problem that this program can't get out of its own way now and is spiraling downward. This was a last chance after last year to right it and we are now worse off.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 18, 2016 1:08:46 GMT -5
You have people that agree with your side of things writing kids off three games into their first season. If that's okay with you, fine. I have access to the block feature that I've never used because I prefer to think that I want to be exposed to differing opinions. It's a fact that the "fire JT3" crowd shows up when it fits their narrative and those of us that feel like the status quo is less susceptible to change, regardless of our level of outrage or lack thereof, do that to a much lesser degree. But ripping freshmen 3 games in is over the line. If you don't agree, we're not going to agree on much of anything. I haven't nor do I think the talk on this board is ripping players. The criticism tonight which I've read is about the coach. There may have been someone ripping players in isolation but that's not the tone so to try and bring that in is missing the sentiment of this board. There is a fundamental problem that this program can't get out of its own way now and is spiraling downward. This was a last chance after last year to right it and we are now worse off. Then you're selectively reading the parts that support your beliefs. Reread.
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