YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on May 16, 2005 20:30:00 GMT -5
Sorry to see Ray go- he showed a lot of heart, and I hope Cornelio gets thru this time in his life.
Sorry to see them go, wish them both well.... and hope DJ is coming back to join BB and the rest as we push for next year's success.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,753
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 16, 2005 21:25:15 GMT -5
Talk about an overstatement. Transfers are never a good thing, but there are all sorts of situations in which they occur when it is anything but a failure. I've complained about transfers for years now and we can agree to disagree on it. How good could those teams of 90 and 91 had been with a PF like Anthony Tucker paired up with Mourning and Mutombo? Would the Hoyas have been able to avoid the NIT in 1993 if that entire senior class (Tate, Edwards, Sabol, Stoudamire) had not all left town within three semesters of arriving? How much did the annual revolving door of guards in the 1990's (Harrison, Butler, Micoud, Myles, Iverson, Page, Sheffey, Brunner, Long) contribute to the downward slide of the program, a slide whose effects are still felt today? Could Esherick have made it if the Montrose Christian trio were all on the same page and GU had two or three NCAA bids instead of one? To me, a basketball scholarship to a place like Georgetown is both a great privilege and a distinct opportunity for both sides (student and university) to make the most of it. In those rare instances where personal issues demanded a change (ie, Kenny Brunner) I completely understand it, but when men's basketball continues to lose far more transfers each year than other GU scholarship sports and its effects in graduation rates and APR ratings have a more visible impact upon the school, yes, it's a failure of the system. A failure isn't the end, but it is an opportunity to improve. In a perfect world, I would rather have a player who is not going to be a part of the team stay on at GU and complete his studies, but that doesn't happen very much, for a lot of reasons. Transfer-wise, we don't know if Cornelio Guibunda or Ray Reed is the next Anthony Tucker or the next Jason Burns, but a Georgetown degree would have served both well. Willie Taylor was neither. Nor was Demetrius Hunter or . Matt Causey. Nor was Harvey Thomas, whose story is markedly different from any of these. And Luke Martin was on campus for two months before his grades just couldn't get him in. He's played in the Australian pro leagues for three years now, averaging 6.7 ppg. Not bad. We really don't know what "mutual agreement" there was, nor should we. That's between the coach and the player. Not this again! We settled this on the board three or four months ago: JT3 is doing a fine job and it's important for GU to give him the finacnial and institutional support necessary to succeeed, otherwise, this program is in for trouble post-2010.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on May 16, 2005 23:31:22 GMT -5
Could Esherick have made it if the Montrose Christian trio were all on the same page and GU had two or three NCAA bids instead of one? While this response is speculative, I would suggest that Esherick would have eventually met the same fate that he did in March 2004. The body of evidence suggests that his ability to translate talent into on-the-floor success is limited, and player development resulted more from his assistants than CE himself. [Mike Sweetney has given credit to RT for his development and invited RT to the NBA Draft as opposed to CE, which was a fairly strong statement.] Again, I think it is very important to distinguish between the transfers of the past and these two transfers. The Matt Causey transfer happened while JT3 was the HC. By and large, the transfers of the later Esherick years resulted from academic, basketball, and personnel problems. By personnel, I mean the inability of a leader to command respect within his program. I won't go beyond that, and I am fairly certain that you know what I mean. I don't care whose fault it is. Head coaches are supposed to be in control and respected as leaders. Period. These transfers of Reed and Guibunda are unfortunate. As I've said before and on another site, you want every recruit to be able to (i) contribute on the floor, (ii) contribute in the classroom, (iii) enjoy the camraderie within the program, and (iv) represent their families and GU with class and distinction. To the best of our knowledge, these guys did very well on these counts, but their contributions on the floor were limited and would be limited for the rest of their GU careers. They may have been given an opportunity to stay at GU for their studies, but my sense is that both want to make a living on the basketball floor, which is why they need to head elsewhere. Point is that not all transfers are the same, and, just how we like to evaluate each recruit and general GU applicant as an individual, we should take these transfers on a case by case basis. Generalizations, though sometimes helpful, don't apply universally to every case, and it is a grave mistake to think they do. I think most of us learned that about how we approach basketball coaches at GU in March 2004.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,132
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Post by RBHoya on May 16, 2005 23:54:16 GMT -5
Great post, Jersey.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,297
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Post by prhoya on May 17, 2005 0:30:30 GMT -5
I agree with you, Jersey.
(Here come the Esh e-mails...)
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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Post by the_way on May 17, 2005 8:22:50 GMT -5
While this response is speculative, I would suggest that Esherick would have eventually met the same fate that he did in March 2004. The body of evidence suggests that his ability to translate talent into on-the-floor success is limited, and player development resulted more from his assistants than CE himself. [Mike Sweetney has given credit to RT for his development and invited RT to the NBA Draft as opposed to CE, which was a fairly strong statement.] Body of Evidence. That is one player! Also, Sweetney was told by Esherick he had to lose weight and keep his weight off or he would not receive much playing time at GU. To make sure that happened he assigned his assistant Ronny T to work with him. That is what assistants are often asked to do. Don't act like Ronny T was some great developer and overseer of talent. Mike Sweetney was great player, All-American to begin with. Why didn't you talk about Ronny T's recruitment of Harvey Thomas or failed committment of Darian Townes. Or the lack of his recruiting talent as chief recruiter of the program. Where is all this development going on in Arkansas? What has he done at Arkansas? Nothing. Now I love Ronny T. He is a Hoya. But lets be real here. The slide of the program before JTII's arrival wasn't all Esh's fault, it mostly was because he was the head coach. But some of blame is on others as well.
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hoyahoyasaxa
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Sead Dizdarezvic doesn't write term papers. The words rearrange themselves out of fear.
Posts: 464
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Post by hoyahoyasaxa on May 17, 2005 8:30:14 GMT -5
Craig Esherick: Good or bad? Please discuss.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on May 17, 2005 12:13:08 GMT -5
To me, these transfers are a big loss. We lose our best definsive stopper and a big guy on a team sorely lacking in height. Ouch!
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on May 17, 2005 13:30:17 GMT -5
I think Tyler will be as good a stopper although in different ways (what he gives up in quickness, he can make up for in strength and size), and in CG, we lose a guy who didn't play anyway. Good luck to them, but I have a feeling the upward trajectory will continue this coming year!
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Post by hoyalove4ever on May 17, 2005 14:17:08 GMT -5
Crawford may develop into a good defensive player, but he lacks the explosive quickness of Reed.
A guy who can check the opposing team's best guard is invaluable, especially in late-game situations. The low scoring, ball-control system we now use will put us in lots of close games where it would be great to have Reed's defense. If his offense didn't improve, we could sub O for D. Still, I think it was way early to give up on him as an offensive player. Given more time to get used to a new system and the development of any sort of jumper, he could have been pretty good on O.
Guibunda didn't play as a frosh-- so what? It doesn't mean he never could have contributed, especially if he gained some weight. At the very least, he would have been valuable as a practice player against Roy and Jeff.
At least for next year, these transfers really hurt.
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hoyahoyasaxa
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Sead Dizdarezvic doesn't write term papers. The words rearrange themselves out of fear.
Posts: 464
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Post by hoyahoyasaxa on May 17, 2005 14:21:51 GMT -5
Well, I'd definitely rather have Owens than either Reed or Guibunda. And if he comes back because there is an open scholarship, I think that is a net positive for this year.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on May 17, 2005 14:59:56 GMT -5
My question is, does Sapp offer the explosiveness of Ray on defense? If so, then his extra 2-3 inches in height and wingspan may do a lot to offset Ray's couple years of experience.
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