These transfers are the kinds every single program out there has -- Ray no doubt saw the writing on the wall as far as playing time goes with the signings of Sapp and Thornton, as well as the improved play late last season of Tyler Crawford. His style of play was much more of the Esherick system than Thompson's, and whenever a new guy takes the reins, you can expect guys who's styles differ from the new coach's to go elsewhere in the search for playing time. Cornelio has always been a mystery to me because of his limited minutes, but he didn't even play a lot at Kenner or in the cupcake games, so something clearly was going on between him and the staff, for whatever reason.
In ther recent past, transfers alarmed me because they seemed to come mainly from the top of our roster -- think starters like Bethel leaving, or having to re-recruite Bowman; in the current cases, the transfers are coming from where they come from at every university, and not just in Division 1, either -- guys who just want to play more, and don't see much opportunity at their current schools. Good luck to Cornelio and Ray, and even better luck to the Hoyas, is the way I see it. I think sometimes Hoya fans overreact to transfers just because it's guys from our team, but it happens everywhere, and is something to be expected as guys look for the perfect fit in terms of academics, playing time, and a basketball system that bets fit their individual talents.
I forgot to thank Ray and Cornelio for their time at GU and wish them well. Hope they find success on and off the court at their next stop and it would be fun to see Ray play in the style of play that Cal State Fullerton uses, that was some fun basketball to watch and we saw them with a limited roster due to injuries. Wherever they end up. thanks guys and good luck.
Post by Nevada Hoya on May 15, 2005 12:48:22 GMT -5
I didn't get to see the Hoyas play at all on TV last season, but what I did see of the highlights, Ray featured big in these. Of course, I did not see any of his mistakes. He contributed a lot of energy to the team. Cornelio seemed to like GU, but he seemed lost on the bball team for whatever reason. I hope these two find their niches and thanks to both of them for their contributions.
Post by Frank Black on May 15, 2005 15:29:59 GMT -5
(insert obligatory best of luck sentiments here)
First, while Reed frustrated the hell out of me for much of last season, his energy did become a net-plus as the year went on and he played strong down the stretch. Clearly I think he felt that his playing time was going to take a hit. I think whatever school that gets him is going to do nicely for themselves as long as Reed learns to stay in control.
I have been on record for a long time as an anti-Reed guy in terms of basketball. nothing personal...I just didn't like his game in general.
I don't like to see transfers in general, but it does give JTIII much needed flexibility in terms of recruiting.
If you are Reed this is a smart move if he wants to play. JTIII has recruited over him with Sapp, Rivers and Thorton and he knows that he wasn't "JTIII's recruit".
Total support in the future for both the kids. Transfers happen and this continues to solidify JTIII's ability to really shoot for the moon on the recruiting trail.
Post by doublehoya on May 15, 2005 22:16:54 GMT -5
FOTP -- Let me get this straight . . . you were an ANTI-Reed guy? I never would have guessed that, considering all of your positive comments whenever he was playing
SaxaCD85 made my point better than I could have -- better to see transfers from closer to the bottom of our talent pool under JTIII than from the cream of the crop under our previous coach. For those concerned about transfers on apholosophical level, I think we should save that discussion for 5 years into the JTIII era, when all the players are his recruits. Not surprising at all for a previous coach's recruits to transfer.
Transfers are common all over the NCAAs. Good luck to both! It looks like JTIII's recruiting of the coming freshmen left Reed in a difficult position and with the prospects of even less playing time. I believe it's a good move for him. As for Guibunda, he's a question mark. Overall, I'm excited that JTIII has more scholarsips available to recruit players that fit his style.
There’s a saying in the college basketball world that teams play like the coaches that lead them. This will be true of Georgetown under Cooley’s staff as well. “Discipline is a staple. Toughness, energy, connection, and enthusiasm. Those things will also be staples of our organization,” he said.
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on May 16, 2005 7:52:20 GMT -5
Wouldn't this be a great opportunity to not sign on a reach as we have done in the past but rather wait and see for future classes? I would think we could bring in Owens for one more year without losing anything and he could play a similar role to this year by simply helping the younger guys develop and providing a set shooter when needed. I would hate to see us reach on a guy who might sit on the bench for four years especially when it sounds like we are going to have plenty of talent at guard and on the wing.
I guess I'll chime in and echo the general sentiments of the board. First, you never like it when a player transfers from your program. Hell, this is kind of new to me, as I grew as a Stanford fan, where nobody ever transferred. However, I don't think it's necessarily a "failure of the program and the University" and DFW suggested earlier. It can simply be a business decision, and I think these were. Cornelio and Ray must have felt they wouldn't see much PT next year, so they left.
Cornelio was the huge question mark, seeing as how he was a top 100 recruit and rode the pine all season. I really didn't know what was up with him, and I didn't see him developing at all under our system. His departure, although we are in dire need of more bigs, didn't really surprise nor disappoint me much. As with all on the board, Ray was a big source of frustration over the course of the season. However, he did have flashes of brilliance in our road win over Nova and against UConn in the Big East Tourney. He's the quickest guy we have, which is why he took some minutes from Wallace later in the season. He will be missed somewhat, it's just a matter of Thorton and Sapp to come in and take his place.
Again, at least these two transfers are not coming from the top of our talent pool, as they were under Esherick. I think our team and program will be just fine. And of course, best of luck to Ray and Cornelio in the future.
Now, of course these open up some scholarship spots. When will we find out if Wallace gets a schollie and DJ comes back? That seems the most likely scenario at this point, because I can't really see us getting a recruit for this year this late in the game. Is there a timetable for this kind of thing, or will we just have to wait?
Last Edit: May 16, 2005 11:27:04 GMT -5 by CAHoya07
Flag Man, 2005-06 Hoya Blue, 2005-07 President, Georgetown Club of Northern California, 2013-2016
Giving DJ a scholarship now is essentially "free" since no one else will use it and he will be gone before it would be needed for another recruit. The same is not true of giving Jon a 'ship, so they are completely different situations.
I don't think we will ever hear anything official regarding Jon's status. We will probably know about DJ through unofficial channels (i.e. someone talking to him or coach) or if he is playing in Kenner. Otherwise, we'll have to wait for a new school year.
"The ball should move, bodies should move. You talk about being an undisciplined, unselfish group. That's what you do. If the ball's sticking, great defensive teams are going to load up. If you don't move the ball and [be] unselfish, it's gonna be long nights, so you better learn to move the ball, share, and play with a sense of urgency on every possession. Our teams will always be unselfish, our teams will always be physical, and our teams will always do our best to defend."
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on May 16, 2005 12:37:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the input. I thought that would be the case but thought something might have come out. I think Owens would be good as he would help in the senior leadership area along with Bowman & Cook
Post by hoyadrummer on May 16, 2005 12:40:49 GMT -5
DFW said:
Wow! I have to strongly disagree with you on that one. Anytime a scholarship athlete [departs], it's a failure of the program and a failure for the University as a whole.
What a ridiculous overstatement and generalization. Drew Hall and Tony Bethel leaving because the program was in a downward spiral were bad things. Ray and Cornelio leaving because the program is in an upward spiral and they feared that they would get no playing time is not a bad mark on the University. They leave in good academic standing, with our best wishes, and by allowing Owens/Wallace/Ewing a greater chance of scholarship improve the team that we can put on the court. Sounds like a winning situation for everyone. Wish they best of luck.
Post by jerseyhoya34 on May 16, 2005 12:46:25 GMT -5
hoyadrummer said:
What a ridiculous overstatement and generalization. Drew Hall and Tony Bethel leaving because the program was in a downward spiral were bad things. Ray and Cornelio leaving because the program is in an upward spiral and they feared that they would get no playing time is not a bad mark on the University. They leave in good academic standing, with our best wishes, and by allowing Owens/Wallace/Ewing a greater chance of scholarship improve the team that we can put on the court. Sounds like a winning situation for everyone. Wish they best of luck.
I wish there was not so much talk of Wallace and the scholarship. It is a situation that is being handled internally. While it would be nice to save his family some money, remember that he is receiving some aid, to the best of our knowledge, from GU and was willing to turn down schollies from Texas A&M and elsewhere so that he could play for JT3 at Princeton/GU.
Otherwise, good post, drummer. I could not agree with you more.
Post by TrueHoyaBlue on May 16, 2005 12:47:29 GMT -5
I would argue the same thing about students transferring in general. I think that overall, it is good for Georgetown to have the 95%+ retention rate that we do, as it implies that most students feel that this is the appropriate and best place for them to be. For the students who transfer out of G'town, some of them represent failures of the institution, either through failing to help a student through difficult personal circumstances or failing to provide the right atmosphere for learning and success. But many other transfers are just because of less-than-perfect matches, and students who are trying to find a better fit.
I think the transfers of student-athletes should be looked at in the same light. In general, it's good to aim for creating a zero-transfer environment. But if a student transfers for his or her own benefit (rather than just to escape a bad situation), that's not necessarily a bad transfer.
Talk about an overstatement. Transfers are never a good thing, but there are all sorts of situations in which they occur when it is anything but a failure. The transfers under Esherick were - almost across the board - complete failures on academic and basketball fronts. Either the player was fleeing a sinking ship, or the doofus coaching staff simply recruited a player who didn't belong, sometimes realizing it even befoer the player had reached campus (see Luke Martin).
THOSE were failures. Not two players who leave because a new coach has come on-board and they come to the mutual agreement that they don't fit.
DFW - Where was this frantic reaction during the revolving door Esherick era? I never recall you posting in indignation about a "failure" after any of those transfers. It's a mystery what your problem with JT3 is, but it's very strange.
I always remember DFW having a problem with transfers, only he said (gasp) that they had started under JTII and not the work of everybody's scapegoat, Craig Esherick.
I think he made this point because it's true. If anything the hypocrites are the ones on the board who act like transfers are suddenly a great thing. Causey, Guibunda, and Reed transfer and this "opens up recruiting." Bethel, Hall, and Thomas transferred and you would have thought the world came crashing down.
Kids transfer all the time and for a lot of reasons. Sometimes it is a coaching conflict but more often than not it is a host of things. Let them go. I don't see a problem with an 18 year old kid changing his mind. I know non-basketball players who did it and they have a lot fewer issues to weigh.