EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 22, 2017 12:32:43 GMT -5
What players are you referring to Frazier? I don't remember talk of Govan or Derrickson leaving, same goes for Kaleb & Jagan.. There was significant talk, including in Casual Hoya and otherwise amongst some with far better information than me. So you're not sure of specific players? You just remember there were strong rumors? Seems shaky to me but to each his own..
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 22, 2017 12:52:33 GMT -5
There was significant talk, including in Casual Hoya and otherwise amongst some with far better information than me. So you're not sure of specific players? You just remember there were strong rumors? Seems shaky to me but to each his own.. Many assumed MD was gone even after III was canned and there was also talk that Govan would leave as well. Those are the ones I heard about specifically. I think PE did a good job keeping them onboard - an underrated task.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 22, 2017 13:00:49 GMT -5
I am not going to get into any of the JT3 stuff - my opinions on that are oft-stated here. I agree that Ewing did a good job of retaining our team after the coaching change. Coaching changes can often lead to many personnel changes, and we basically only lost Agau. I would have preferred to keep Agau, but keeping everyone else was key. If we had lost Govan and Derrickson, we would be hopeless this season.
On one of the games, one of TV guys said that Govan's mother idolized Ewing as a player on the Knicks. Considering that, plus the fact that Govan is a big man looking to develop into an NBA player, and it's easy to see why he stayed.
As far as who would have stayed if JT3 was the coach, it's really a pointless exercise - and speculation - at this point.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2017 13:08:58 GMT -5
The ones who wanted to leave already left or are no longer on the team. There were never any rumours of Govan or Derrickson leaving if III was still here. Alot of them considered leaving once III was fired (and before Ewing was hired) but that's normal. Akoy would have stayed if III was still here. He loved III and was mad at those players who were sabotaging III. I don't know whether Akoy would have stayed, but otherwise you are wrong that others were not strongly considering leaving if JTIII stayed. I believe any solid rumors on those two came after III was fired, not before. Govan loved Pops, so I find it hard to believe he would skip town if III was still there and Tremont Waters was coming in.
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 22, 2017 14:20:57 GMT -5
There was significant talk, including in Casual Hoya and otherwise amongst some with far better information than me. So you're not sure of specific players? You just remember there were strong rumors? Seems shaky to me but to each his own.. Never said that.
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 22, 2017 14:36:27 GMT -5
I don't know whether Akoy would have stayed, but otherwise you are wrong that others were not strongly considering leaving if JTIII stayed. I believe any solid rumors on those two came after III was fired, not before. Govan loved Pops, so I find it hard to believe he would skip town if III was still there and Tremont Waters was coming in. Your timeline is off by a few days, although I guess it depends on what "solid rumors" means.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Nov 22, 2017 14:41:21 GMT -5
You can change this up a bit: This fanbase... cost us a superstar. This fanbase is stupid.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Nov 22, 2017 14:57:15 GMT -5
Making arguments now that JT3 should have stayed is beyond ridiculous. The program was reeling. Pretending Waters isn't a terrific recruit with the potential to grow into a spectacular player or wouldn't be hugely popular with our fanbase if he was here is equally ridiculous. 3 had to go and Waters is a good player. Suggesting that Waters would have been here if 3 had stayed is equally speculative. He might not have liked what he was seeing as 3's last season progressed. He chose to move on -- to a Western Kentucky flirtation and then LSU with an exciting new hire. Good luck to him. I think he made a mistake. I'm glad we have Ewing now, light pre-BE schedule and all, to lead the ship. I'm equally excited to read how much fun our current players seem to be having and for the prospects we have coming. GO Hoyas!
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 22, 2017 15:59:42 GMT -5
Where's that "beating the dead horse" gif?
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Nov 22, 2017 16:15:50 GMT -5
Is this seriously being rehashed? Aside from the fact that three of the last four seasons under JTIII were embarrassments, didn't Waters basically say that he had reconsidered his commitment as early as January due to how much of a disaster the program was? At a minimum, even if JTIII had been retained, given the way college basketball has become with transfers and decommits up to the first day of classes, there is no guarantee that Waters would not have left anyways.
Fact of the matter is--JTIII is not our head coach, and Waters is not our point guard. People made decisions, and we are where we are. Let's move on to where the program is going, instead of rehashing all of the zillions of "what ifs"...
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Nov 22, 2017 22:09:09 GMT -5
I personally am okay missing on Tremont because I don’t think we get to where we are today with a new coach and a new direction otherwise. The one that hurt and still hurts was Josh Hart. He was ours to lose and we let him go. That move alone impacted the trajectory of our program more than anything over the last 5 years. Tremont moves the needle...but we did get something out of his decommittment with a coaching change. I for one will be tracking his performance all year....just because. I get what you are saying and if it was Ewing or Tremont I would lean Ewing. That being said I think Tremont will stay in school for a while (unless he gets bad advice) and will have as good a career personally that Hart had. He's really really good. LSU obviously won't have the team success that Nova had though.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 22, 2017 23:30:15 GMT -5
I just watched Waters against Marquette. Wow!! Better than advertised. Went for 39 in a loss with 4 assts and 5 steals. He was an absolute handful.
At this rate....it’ll be interesting to see how long he stays in school.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Nov 22, 2017 23:35:31 GMT -5
Yeah but he doesn't dominate every game. What a ridiculous critique of a freshman. It's unfortunate he's not here, don't blame the new staff. Kid made the best decision for himself.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Nov 23, 2017 9:04:30 GMT -5
Waters put on a great show for the prime time national TV audience last night. That LSU team around him is not good. He was pretty much the entire offense. Until Marquette started doubling him on every ball screen, he was scoring at will. Once they started doubling him, his teammates were not good enough to take advantage of the 4 on 3 offensive opportunities. So Waters started just splitting the doubles himself. He did force a lot of stuff offensively, but it seemed like he did not have much of a choice, because nobody else on LSU was going to create much of anything.
Defensively, he played off the ball - usually on a shooter hanging out in the corner. He cheated way off his man to try to help in the lane,,so he gave up quite a few open corner 3s.
He definitely is a lot of fun to watch, and is a very unique talent. Hard to project him to the NBA - because he is so small, and he is not a dynamically explosive athlete. He is good because he has such a high skill level. Will the size/athleticism of the NBA overpower those skills? It will be interesting to see how he plays against the athletes at Kentucky this year, and how the NBA ends up evaluating his unique game.
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Post by saxa69 on Nov 23, 2017 9:33:03 GMT -5
Waters put on a great show for the prime time national TV audience last night. That LSU team around him is not good. He was pretty much the entire offense. Until Marquette started doubling him on every ball screen, he was scoring at will. Once they started doubling him, his teammates were not good enough to take advantage of the 4 on 3 offensive opportunities. So Waters started just splitting the doubles himself. He did force a lot of stuff offensively, but it seemed like he did not have much of a choice, because nobody else on LSU was going to create much of anything. Defensively, he played off the ball - usually on a shooter hanging out in the corner. He cheated way off his man to try to help in the lane,,so he gave up quite a few open corner 3s. He definitely is a lot of fun to watch, and is a very unique talent. Hard to project him to the NBA - because he is so small, and he is not a dynamically explosive athlete. He is good because he has such a high skill level. Will the size/athleticism of the NBA overpower those skills? It will be interesting to see how he plays against the athletes at Kentucky this year, and how the NBA ends up evaluating his unique game. msg from Anonymous Eagle... beating LSU tonight will also send a message to Georgetown fans everywhere that Waters was not going to be of any help to them against Marquette. Anonymous Eagle..
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 23, 2017 10:04:14 GMT -5
I’d venture to say that the Hoyas have a better supporting cast than LSU.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 23, 2017 10:12:44 GMT -5
Waters put on a great show for the prime time national TV audience last night. That LSU team around him is not good. He was pretty much the entire offense. Until Marquette started doubling him on every ball screen, he was scoring at will. Once they started doubling him, his teammates were not good enough to take advantage of the 4 on 3 offensive opportunities. So Waters started just splitting the doubles himself. He did force a lot of stuff offensively, but it seemed like he did not have much of a choice, because nobody else on LSU was going to create much of anything. Defensively, he played off the ball - usually on a shooter hanging out in the corner. He cheated way off his man to try to help in the lane,,so he gave up quite a few open corner 3s. He definitely is a lot of fun to watch, and is a very unique talent. Hard to project him to the NBA - because he is so small, and he is not a dynamically explosive athlete. He is good because he has such a high skill level. Will the size/athleticism of the NBA overpower those skills? It will be interesting to see how he plays against the athletes at Kentucky this year, and how the NBA ends up evaluating his unique game. It's kind of ironic that the horses came just 6 months too late for III. Waters, Antwan Walker. If III doesn't leave do we get Peak and Akoy back. Was Blair a III guy or a Ewing guy? Pickett was a Ewing guy so we probably wouldn't have got him. But III was just a year too late in getting real but players and athletes instead of guys line Cameron who were physically and skill wise below D1 level while not being able to consistently hit the 3.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 23, 2017 10:39:31 GMT -5
I never got the impression that Peak's decision had anything to do with JT3.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 23, 2017 10:49:45 GMT -5
I never got the impression that Peak's decision had anything to do with JT3. I figured he was gone regardless because he has to feed his family. But we are playing a what if scenario. Where tremont comes and everyone realizes that they might be able to go somewhere in the tourney.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 23, 2017 10:57:41 GMT -5
I never got the impression that Peak's decision had anything to do with JT3. I figured he was gone regardless because he has to feed his family. But we are playing a what if scenario. Where streak t comes and everyone realizes that they might be able to go somewhere in the tourney. The reality is the Tremont verbally committed around September or October '16. From that moment on, JT3 could not attract and wrap up another top recruit. Supposedly, good recruits attract other good recruits. That did not happen for JT3. Recruits were staying away. As a reminder, the previous season we only got Jagan as a freshman recruit.
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