SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 4, 2016 5:08:48 GMT -5
What are you disagreeing with? He was just hoping for the best. Are you so miserable that you won't let him have that? Everyone hopes for the best, but JC recruiting remains a sign that this staff did not do its job in the high school ranks.Yes... but we knew that already. Faced with a daunting situation and not many options, JT3 and Staff went out and got a high quality recruit. Given the long stretch of bad news around this program, I choose to look at the upside possibilities. Next year we can revisit this and see how it turns out. I don't see a need to be tossing around wet blankets at this point.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 4, 2016 6:21:21 GMT -5
Chicken soup. May not help but can't hurt
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 4, 2016 6:23:59 GMT -5
Everyone hopes for the best, but JC recruiting remains a sign that this staff did not do its job in the high school ranks.Yes... but we knew that already. Faced with a daunting situation and not many options, JT3 and Staff went out and got a high quality recruit. Given the long stretch of bad news around this program, I choose to look at the upside possibilities. Next year we can revisit this and see how it turns out. I don't see a need to be tossing around wet blankets at this point. Man, I wonder if St John's fans groused about Looie's recruiting when he had to stoop to getting Walter Berry.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Apr 4, 2016 6:37:49 GMT -5
Great land. The expectations next year just got higher.
Allegany is a legit Juco and OSU and WVU were the other two in the mix. This isn't a depth pickup. He starts day 1.
And we don't need 26 a game from him. We just need a starting point guard and the #1 juco guard on the board fills that need. Yes the staff has blown it on the high school trail at PG but that's a long term issue. Short term, it just became even harder to figure out a way this team doesn't win a lot of games next year.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 4, 2016 7:06:56 GMT -5
I'm glad to see they are going back to the JUCO ranks as I'll always remember Jerome Williams who was one of my favorite players in the Iverson days and went on to have a nice NBA career. Hopefully get some maturity and experience that can help with our most glaring weakness. Disagree. JC signings are a signing of this staff's ongoing weakness in recruiting. Who was that assistant coach who convinced the Domingo family their son could skip senior year at St. Ignatius, anyway? Jerome Williams notwithstanding, the Thompson teams of the 1990's were a revolving door and JC signings were the unfortunate result. We often forget the other JC's of that era, from George Butler to Godwin Owinje to Trez Kilpatrick. George Butler was a very talented player who made some bad off-court choices. Kilpatrick was inconsistent but could score at times. Godwin Owinje was the only guy who was truly a pure role player (albeit on some good teams). For what it is worth, I would take another George Butler in a heartbeat and give the staff a chance to screw his head on straight this time. Also, I just want good players- from JUCO, fifth years, SRDs, transfers, whatever- I do not care as long as they are recruited cleanly, can hack it academically, have a good attitude, and can play ball. As for Mulmore, look at the other schools that were at least fairly interested. By all indications, he is at least a reasonably talented player, and one who plays a position of need. I see no reason to pass up such a recruit.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 4, 2016 7:11:23 GMT -5
Godwin Owinje averaged 24.9 points and 16 rebounds a game, too. Juco stats are always suspect based on competition. Are you just going to ignore his injury? Guess that doesn't jive with your narrative. Right. He was hurt, and one of his seasons was arguably the deepest collection of at least raw talent GU ever has had on any roster (1996). Not exactly fair to label him a bum, which he wasn't even when he played- just a role player.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Apr 4, 2016 7:15:53 GMT -5
The year sucked. The team underwhelmed. The coaches were mediocre. But as MCI and eagle have said, this move seems to be low risk with potentially a high upside. Not quite the experience of a 5th year transfer but certainly better than any of the freshman who might still be out there. I like his size and hope he can play defense.
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Apr 4, 2016 8:15:15 GMT -5
Disagree. JC signings are a signing of this staff's ongoing weakness in recruiting. Who was that assistant coach who convinced the Domingo family he could skip senior year at St. Ignatius, anyway? Jerome Williams notwithstanding, the Thompson teams of the 1990's were a revolving door and JC signings were the unfortunate result. We often forget the other JC's of that era, from George Butler to Godwin Owinje to Trez Kilpatrick. What are you disagreeing with? He was just hoping for the best. Are you so miserable that you won't let him have that? DFW disagrees with Eagle's point that we should be happy were are going to the JUCO ranks. This likely wasn't the staff's preference but was a necessity because of either a flawed recruiting strategy and/or multiple failures. While this is a nice stop-gap measure this is more of a sign of where this program finds itself.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 4, 2016 8:27:26 GMT -5
Or we could see it as a sign that the staff has recognized the immediate need to expand its recruiting philosophy and go outside its comfort zone to try to improve this team.
But that would be giving the staff credit for something. I know that is no longer the HoyaTalk way.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 4, 2016 8:31:46 GMT -5
Man, I wonder if St John's fans groused about Looie's recruiting when he had to stoop to getting Walter Berry. Berry's recruitment was much more complicated than that. He went to three different New York high schools, quit school as a senior, and then took 24 hours of GED courses in one semester (administered through St. John's, of all places) that were later invalidated by the NCAA. That's what sent him to junior college in the first place. www.si.com/vault/1984/01/30/540996/theres-a-berry-in-the-bushes
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 4, 2016 9:11:45 GMT -5
Why anyone would look at the addition of a potentially talented player at a position of need as anything but a positive -- particularly when the risk is low (two years of eligibility) -- is beyond me. Even if it just turns out to be depth -- that's something we need also.
We've missed on guards, for sure. But I don't think it's fair to say that the staff has failed in recruiting the HS ranks altogether. DSR was a terrific player for us out of HS. LJ -- who really is a guard at this point -- also appears to be. That's two very good guards in three years. We've gotten killed on perimeter defense and for sure the staff has been short a guard or two -- I'm not sugarcoating it -- but this is exactly what you want to do in that situation. It also creates much better balance positionally for us going forward. I'd still love us to get a quick traditional guard, but if we're not going to (or if that is a year away), then this is the next best thing.
Isn't this better than getting a low-rated high school guard that's going to tie up a scholarship for four years? Much better chance that this young man can come in and help right away than my hypothetical low rated frosh. And we may only have one more year of LJ. This is low risk - high ceiling. It's perfect given the circumstances.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Apr 4, 2016 9:41:28 GMT -5
Why anyone would look at the addition of a potentially talented player at a position of need as anything but a positive -- particularly when the risk is low (two years of eligibility) -- is beyond me. Even if it just turns out to be depth -- that's something we need also. We've missed on guards, for sure. But I don't think it's fair to say that the staff has failed in recruiting the HS ranks altogether. DSR was a terrific player for us out of HS. LJ -- who really is a guard at this point -- also appears to be. That's two very good guards in three years. We've gotten killed on perimeter defense and for sure the staff has been short a guard or two -- I'm not sugarcoating it -- but this is exactly what you want to do in that situation. It also creates much better balance positionally for us going forward. I'd still love us to get a quick traditional guard, but if we're not going to (or if that is a year away), then this is the next best thing. Isn't this better than getting a low-rated high school guard that's going to tie up a scholarship for four years? Much better chance that this young man can come in and help right away than my hypothetical low rated frosh. And we may only have one more year of LJ. This is low risk - high ceiling. It's perfect given the circumstances. Please don't interrupt the Relentless Negativity Show with reasonable and well-thought out analysis. Don't you know the sky is falling, and it's III's fault. And Obama of course. The thing about recruiting big men is that they will always be big men. Maybe they turn stretch, but, mostly, they do big guy things with mixed amount of success. Guards take different interest in a variety of skills and some don't go the direction you might expect or the team might need. So DSR might not turn into a traditional point guard despite knowing he needs to in order to play at the next level. And Tre might not develop into a pressing point despite all indications that he was headed that way. But that stuff only happens when the sky is falling because of III. Kid is a good get, low risk, high reward kind of potential, appears to have a lot of bulldog in him, though what kind I will leave up to III and his team.
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Apr 4, 2016 9:41:36 GMT -5
Why anyone would look at the addition of a potentially talented player at a position of need as anything but a positive -- particularly when the risk is low (two years of eligibility) -- is beyond me. Even if it just turns out to be depth -- that's something we need also. We've missed on guards, for sure. But I don't think it's fair to say that the staff has failed in recruiting the HS ranks altogether. DSR was a terrific player for us out of HS. LJ -- who really is a guard at this point -- also appears to be. That's two very good guards in three years. We've gotten killed on perimeter defense and for sure the staff has been short a guard or two -- I'm not sugarcoating it -- but this is exactly what you want to do in that situation. It also creates much better balance positionally for us going forward. I'd still love us to get a quick traditional guard, but if we're not going to (or if that is a year away), then this is the next best thing. Isn't this better than getting a low-rated high school guard that's going to tie up a scholarship for four years? Much better chance that this young man can come in and help right away than my hypothetical low rated frosh. And we may only have one more year of LJ. This is low risk - high ceiling. It's perfect given the circumstances. I agree. Given the circumstances this signing is ideal. I and others are not stating that. Would JT have gone to the JUCO ranks if he didn't miss out on multiple guards and if Tre met expectations? Would JT have gone to the JUCO ranks if he didn't promulgate his lack of need for a true point guard in his offense?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 4, 2016 9:51:23 GMT -5
Why anyone would look at the addition of a potentially talented player at a position of need as anything but a positive -- particularly when the risk is low (two years of eligibility) -- is beyond me. Even if it just turns out to be depth -- that's something we need also. We've missed on guards, for sure. But I don't think it's fair to say that the staff has failed in recruiting the HS ranks altogether. DSR was a terrific player for us out of HS. LJ -- who really is a guard at this point -- also appears to be. That's two very good guards in three years. We've gotten killed on perimeter defense and for sure the staff has been short a guard or two -- I'm not sugarcoating it -- but this is exactly what you want to do in that situation. It also creates much better balance positionally for us going forward. I'd still love us to get a quick traditional guard, but if we're not going to (or if that is a year away), then this is the next best thing. Isn't this better than getting a low-rated high school guard that's going to tie up a scholarship for four years? Much better chance that this young man can come in and help right away than my hypothetical low rated frosh. And we may only have one more year of LJ. This is low risk - high ceiling. It's perfect given the circumstances. I agree. Given the circumstances this signing is ideal. I and others are not stating that. Would JT have gone to the JUCO ranks if he didn't miss out on multiple guards and if Tre met expectations? Would JT have gone to the JUCO ranks if he didn't promulgate his lack of need for a true point guard in his offense? The answer to your first question is: Of course not! But who cares? There are always going to be misses in recruiting. You try to minimize them. But unfortunately, sometimes those misses are going to be at the same position over several years. And when they are, you take extreme measures. To point out that we're short at the guard position on the day that a promising recruit at that position signs is like complaining that there used to be a dead spot on my lawn after I've already re-seeded it. Let's just play on the nice grass for one darned day! I'm not sure I really understand the second question. I don't think the issue is necessarily a "point guard" or the fact that he has said we don't need one. We've had a series of perfectly acceptable (on both ends) PGs here (JWall to Chris Wright to Markel). Were any program changers? No. Were any Chris Paul? No. But all were perfectly capable of playing PG on very successful teams, as evidenced by the fact that they did, in fact, play PG on very successful teams! The primary issue is the last few years. In any event, at least to me, the real issue at the perimeter positions the past couple of years has been the ability to penetrate and cause defenses to help (regardless of the position) and the ability to defend the perimeter. We don't know whether this signing really helps there, but it sounds like it may at least on the offensive end.
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on Apr 4, 2016 9:52:57 GMT -5
I think the creation of so many basketball-factory prep schools in the last 10-15 years has really reduced the need for talented players to attend JUCO's, so you probably won't find a Steve Francis/Larry Johnson/Shawn Marion superstar player at a JUCO like you did prior to 2000. If a highly-rated high school underclassman shows any sign of difficulty qualifying for college, his handlers will put him in 1 or more basketball-factory prep schools to ensure that he's able to enter a 4-year college as a freshman at some point. JUCO seems to be the absolute last resort for players these days. But I don't think it's a knock on the staff for going after a JUCO player like Jonathan Mulmore because he ended up being pursued by other BCS schools after Georgetown offered. I'd credit the staff for being one of the first(or maybe the first) BCS school to show an interest and then offer him.
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Apr 4, 2016 9:57:58 GMT -5
Disagree. JC signings are a signing of this staff's ongoing weakness in recruiting. Who was that assistant coach who convinced the Domingo family their son could skip senior year at St. Ignatius, anyway? Jerome Williams notwithstanding, the Thompson teams of the 1990's were a revolving door and JC signings were the unfortunate result. We often forget the other JC's of that era, from George Butler to Godwin Owinje to Trez Kilpatrick. Butler as pretty good (until he got booted). The gay grinch was decent too. Came here for a "gay grinch" mention. Was not disappointed.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 4, 2016 10:09:26 GMT -5
What are you disagreeing with? He was just hoping for the best. Are you so miserable that you won't let him have that? Everyone hopes for the best, but JC recruiting remains a sign that this staff did not do its job in the high school ranks. Nah that's not what it means. It's called roster construction, we need balance.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 4, 2016 10:10:25 GMT -5
What are you disagreeing with? He was just hoping for the best. Are you so miserable that you won't let him have that? DFW disagrees with Eagle's point that we should be happy were are going to the JUCO ranks. This likely wasn't the staff's preference but was a necessity because of either a flawed recruiting strategy and/or multiple failures. While this is a nice stop-gap measure this is more of a sign of where this program finds itself. Eagles point was that he was happy, he wasn't imposing his happiness standards upon us. Go back and reread it.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 4, 2016 10:24:25 GMT -5
Man, I wonder if St John's fans groused about Looie's recruiting when he had to stoop to getting Walter Berry. Berry's recruitment was much more complicated than that. He went to three different New York high schools, quit school as a senior, and then took 24 hours of GED courses in one semester (administered through St. John's, of all places) that were later invalidated by the NCAA. That's what sent him to junior college in the first place. www.si.com/vault/1984/01/30/540996/theres-a-berry-in-the-bushesFWIW, Louie had also landed Shelton Jones that year who was a huge get. Did not pan out as a superstar, but that SJU team was loaded with Mullin, Wennington, Glass, Moses, Mark Jackson, etc The situations were clearly different.
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Apr 4, 2016 11:01:25 GMT -5
Yes... but we knew that already. Faced with a daunting situation and not many options, JT3 and Staff went out and got a high quality recruit. Given the long stretch of bad news around this program, I choose to look at the upside possibilities. Next year we can revisit this and see how it turns out. I don't see a need to be tossing around wet blankets at this point. Man, I wonder if St John's fans groused about Looie's recruiting when he had to stoop to getting Walter Berry. Or Runnin' Rebel fans were Editeded when Larry Johnson was recruited out of Odessa JC.... I guess Tark musta been screwin' up high school recruitin', too.
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