|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 22, 2016 12:51:28 GMT -5
Maybe Ike's best shot but metrics don't lie and still an idiotic shot to take regardless even with hyberole. What's your point? My point was that people put Otto on some kind of untouchable pedestal here and completely lose perspective and change memories in such a short period of time. My point was that both players can point to their long-twos as strengths, and even though Ike isn't quite as good as Otto, they are both proficient and Ike is still above average (especially for his size). Yes, it wins out as his best shot by default cause the rest of his shooting isn't great, but that still makes it his best shot. They both shoot above average from those distances, but I think the real issue is despite all this blind-support Otto gets his fans still don't even realize how good of a midrange shooter he is. This season, in the NBA, Otto is literally shooting above 50% from 9-15, 16-18, and 19-22 ft (while Beal and Wall hover around 35-40% in those areas, a huge difference) so just because Ike isn't a 50% shooter from midrange doesn't mean he is automatically bad at it. I never suggested that he continue taking a shot that is the most inefficient in basketball, just pointing out that that shot from him hasn't been what's been hurting us. If you're going to tell him to stop taking hose shots you might as well tell him to stop taking layups. That midrange jumper is the shot he gets off the easiest, it's his favorite shot, and that also happens to be one of the few places he's been able to be effective. When he steps into one dribble pull-ups with confidence he is just as good a shooter as Otto. I know, it's hard to keep perspective when we've been spoiled so much lately. Newsflash: Otoo and Ike are both proficient midrange shooters, obviously Otto is better. If Ike ever has an NBA future it's because of that midrange shot and nothing else. At his height it's a unique skill and he has a quick release (quicker than otto) Alright I'm done arguing with rockheadhoya So who thinks we're going to beat Butler?...
|
|
|
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 22, 2016 13:57:13 GMT -5
I don't see us beating Butler and I would put the over/under on student attendance at 150.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 22, 2016 15:25:26 GMT -5
Slump-aside, the numbers say differently. That is Ike's most efficient shot and shoots it better than average that's not even debatable or hyperbole. Maybe Ike's best shot but metrics don't lie and still an idiotic shot to take regardless even with hyberole. What's your point? Ike is shooting 28% from 3 - and even worse in Big East play. Watching the last 3-4 games it is unrebuttably clear that we are much better off having him shoot a 15 foot jumper than a 3 that has little chance of going in.
|
|
drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
|
Post by drquigley on Feb 22, 2016 15:55:05 GMT -5
We have had several games the last few weeks that challenged our players skills and desire. We lost them all. The game this Saturday however, in my mind, challenges our coach and his staff. Our weaknesses are glaringly obvious. We've had time to adjust to the loss of Hayes and have a whole week to prepare for the game. We have played our opponent once already this year. Our strengths (whatever they may be) should also be obvious now - not just to our coach but also to our opponents coach. If we come out on Saturday and haven't made any significant changes in our defense or our offensive scheme and get blown out again then I will really rethink my support of JT3. Even if we lose this game I would be happy if: 1) we didn't commit 20+ fouls; 2) held our opponent to less than 45% from the floor and less than 70 points total; 3) had less than 12 turnovers; 4) Had 2-3fast break baskets; 5) did not get forced to throw up a prayer as the shot clock ran out; and 6) played LJ peak for 30+ minutes. In short, with the season basically over as far as NCAA appearance, can we just try something different, something that seems to suit the ability of our players. Something that actually looks exciting to watch and fun to play.
|
|
71hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 498
|
Post by 71hoya on Feb 22, 2016 16:04:05 GMT -5
The very last thing I want to see is the same old same old. I don't want to see DSR dribble to the top of the key, spin and then pick up his dribble. The pass it the 2 guard who quickly passes it to a wing who looks inside or not and passes it back out. Meanwhile our center comes out to the top of the key receives a pass and makes a football handoff to DSR abd drops back a few feet and hip checks an opposing player for a foul in the first minute of the game. Repeat until we are out of the game.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
|
Post by NCHoya on Feb 22, 2016 16:10:09 GMT -5
It is senior day so I expect the guys to at least be playing hard for each other. Hayes being out certainly takes some of the meaning away, but we have 3 seniors and the other guys should be trying to send them out with a win against a Butler team that needs to win. We have a week to prepare and agree with you guys that we need to throw a few new wrinkles into the gameplan. I do not even care if the changes work, if III just shows some creativity and flexibility, I will be happy.
We will not have a crazy overhaul in just a week, but we can certainly tweak our defense. Perhaps a new way to press or trap in certain situations or try guys out at different positions in the 2 3 zone? Offensively, perhaps we try a smaller line-up with Derrickson at the 5. Tell Ike he is not allowed to settle for a jumpshot without first trying to get around his man. Tell DSR if he does not look for his shot in the first 4 minutes, he is sitting for the next 8.
Finally, I am happy the pressure will be on Butler in this game. We will be underdogs, it will be a sleepy atmosphere with no pressure to perform making it a perfect spot to finally play loose like we did against St Johns.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Feb 22, 2016 17:02:16 GMT -5
Maybe Ike's best shot but metrics don't lie and still an idiotic shot to take regardless even with hyberole. What's your point? Ike is shooting 28% from 3 - and even worse in Big East play. Watching the last 3-4 games it is unrebuttably clear that we are much better off having him shoot a 15 foot jumper than a 3 that has little chance of going in. Exactly
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Feb 22, 2016 17:02:57 GMT -5
My point was that people put Otto on some kind of untouchable pedestal here and completely lose perspective and change memories in such a short period of time. My point was that both players can point to their long-twos as strengths, and even though Ike isn't quite as good as Otto, they are both proficient and Ike is still above average (especially for his size). Yes, it wins out as his best shot by default cause the rest of his shooting isn't great, but that still makes it his best shot. They both shoot above average from those distances, but I think the real issue is despite all this blind-support Otto gets his fans still don't even realize how good of a midrange shooter he is. This season, in the NBA, Otto is literally shooting above 50% from 9-15, 16-18, and 19-22 ft (while Beal and Wall hover around 35-40% in those areas, a huge difference) so just because Ike isn't a 50% shooter from midrange doesn't mean he is automatically bad at it. I never suggested that he continue taking a shot that is the most inefficient in basketball, just pointing out that that shot from him hasn't been what's been hurting us. If you're going to tell him to stop taking hose shots you might as well tell him to stop taking layups. That midrange jumper is the shot he gets off the easiest, it's his favorite shot, and that also happens to be one of the few places he's been able to be effective. When he steps into one dribble pull-ups with confidence he is just as good a shooter as Otto. I know, it's hard to keep perspective when we've been spoiled so much lately. Newsflash: Otoo and Ike are both proficient midrange shooters, obviously Otto is better. If Ike ever has an NBA future it's because of that midrange shot and nothing else. At his height it's a unique skill and he has a quick release (quicker than otto) Alright I'm done arguing with rockheadhoya So who thinks we're going to beat Butler?... Yeah it's cause you have no argument or empirical evidence to back up anything you're saying....
|
|
Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
|
Post by Elvado on Feb 22, 2016 19:58:30 GMT -5
Nice to see the 30% ticket price reduction for Senior Day. Since the team is playing at about 50% efficiency, it is still not a good deal to pay 70%.
|
|
|
Post by Lethal_Interjection on Feb 22, 2016 19:59:11 GMT -5
It is senior day so I expect the guys to at least be playing hard for each other. Hayes being out certainly takes some of the meaning away, but we have 3 seniors and the other guys should be trying to send them out with a win against a Butler team that needs to win. We have a week to prepare and agree with you guys that we need to throw a few new wrinkles into the gameplan. I do not even care if the changes work, if III just shows some creativity and flexibility, I will be happy. We will not have a crazy overhaul in just a week, but we can certainly tweak our defense. Perhaps a new way to press or trap in certain situations or try guys out at different positions in the 2 3 zone? Offensively, perhaps we try a smaller line-up with Derrickson at the 5. Tell Ike he is not allowed to settle for a jumpshot without first trying to get around his man. Tell DSR if he does not look for his shot in the first 4 minutes, he is sitting for the next 8. Finally, I am happy the pressure will be on Butler in this game. We will be underdogs, it will be a sleepy atmosphere with no pressure to perform making it a perfect spot to finally play loose like we did against St Johns. Ryian Williams will probably get about 5 mins per half to close out his career.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Feb 22, 2016 21:36:55 GMT -5
Maybe Ike's best shot but metrics don't lie and still an idiotic shot to take regardless even with hyberole. What's your point? My point was that people put Otto on some kind of untouchable pedestal here and completely lose perspective and change memories in such a short period of time. My point was that both players can point to their long-twos as strengths, and even though Ike isn't quite as good as Otto, they are both proficient and Ike is still above average (especially for his size). Yes, it wins out as his best shot by default cause the rest of his shooting isn't great, but that still makes it his best shot. They both shoot above average from those distances, but I think the real issue is despite all this blind-support Otto gets his fans still don't even realize how good of a midrange shooter he is. This season, in the NBA, Otto is literally shooting above 50% from 9-15, 16-18, and 19-22 ft (while Beal and Wall hover around 35-40% in those areas, a huge difference) so just because Ike isn't a 50% shooter from midrange doesn't mean he is automatically bad at it. I never suggested that he continue taking a shot that is the most inefficient in basketball, just pointing out that that shot from him hasn't been what's been hurting us. If you're going to tell him to stop taking hose shots you might as well tell him to stop taking layups. That midrange jumper is the shot he gets off the easiest, it's his favorite shot, and that also happens to be one of the few places he's been able to be effective. When he steps into one dribble pull-ups with confidence he is just as good a shooter as Otto. I know, it's hard to keep perspective when we've been spoiled so much lately. Newsflash: Otoo and Ike are both proficient midrange shooters, obviously Otto is better. If Ike ever has an NBA future it's because of that midrange shot and nothing else. At his height it's a unique skill and he has a quick release (quicker than otto) Ottos midrange is automatic and extends deep almost to 3 or range even with the Hoyas. Ike's midrange is more a short range with a distance inside the free throw line. When he shoots outside the free throw line it isn't automatic like Ottos which makes it a bad shot.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Feb 22, 2016 23:09:11 GMT -5
My point was that people put Otto on some kind of untouchable pedestal here and completely lose perspective and change memories in such a short period of time. My point was that both players can point to their long-twos as strengths, and even though Ike isn't quite as good as Otto, they are both proficient and Ike is still above average (especially for his size). Yes, it wins out as his best shot by default cause the rest of his shooting isn't great, but that still makes it his best shot. They both shoot above average from those distances, but I think the real issue is despite all this blind-support Otto gets his fans still don't even realize how good of a midrange shooter he is. This season, in the NBA, Otto is literally shooting above 50% from 9-15, 16-18, and 19-22 ft (while Beal and Wall hover around 35-40% in those areas, a huge difference) so just because Ike isn't a 50% shooter from midrange doesn't mean he is automatically bad at it. I never suggested that he continue taking a shot that is the most inefficient in basketball, just pointing out that that shot from him hasn't been what's been hurting us. If you're going to tell him to stop taking hose shots you might as well tell him to stop taking layups. That midrange jumper is the shot he gets off the easiest, it's his favorite shot, and that also happens to be one of the few places he's been able to be effective. When he steps into one dribble pull-ups with confidence he is just as good a shooter as Otto. I know, it's hard to keep perspective when we've been spoiled so much lately. Newsflash: Otoo and Ike are both proficient midrange shooters, obviously Otto is better. If Ike ever has an NBA future it's because of that midrange shot and nothing else. At his height it's a unique skill and he has a quick release (quicker than otto) Ottos midrange is automatic and extends deep almost to 3 or range even with the Hoyas. Ike's midrange is more a short range with a distance inside the free throw line. When he shoots outside the free throw line it isn't automatic like Ottos which makes it a bad shot. And my point is just because it's not as automatic as Otto's doesn't mean it's not also above average.....
|
|
|
Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 23, 2016 14:50:55 GMT -5
Ike needs to forget the 3 ball this year and keep taking that 15-18 footer. Ike needs to practice dribbling fundamentals. IKE NEEDS TO PLAY GTOWN BASKETBALL AND ATTACK THE DAMN BASKETBALL RIM!! HAHA!
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,560
|
Post by DanMcQ on Feb 23, 2016 14:57:14 GMT -5
I don't see us beating Butler and I would put the over/under on student attendance at 150. The over/under on McQ attendance is 2.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Feb 23, 2016 15:40:50 GMT -5
Ottos midrange is automatic and extends deep almost to 3 or range even with the Hoyas. Ike's midrange is more a short range with a distance inside the free throw line. When he shoots outside the free throw line it isn't automatic like Ottos which makes it a bad shot. And my point is just because it's not as automatic as Otto's doesn't mean it's not also above average..... I just don't find ike that accurate from a distance outside the free throw line up to the 3pt line. If it were he would be able to consistently destroy the 2-3 zone. Inside the free throw line Ike's midrange or short range is very good.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Feb 23, 2016 17:55:56 GMT -5
And my point is just because it's not as automatic as Otto's doesn't mean it's not also above average..... I just don't find ike that accurate from a distance outside the free throw line up to the 3pt line. If it were he would be able to consistently destroy the 2-3 zone. Inside the free throw line Ike's midrange or short range is very good. True, he's just very streaky but the difference is marginal. He's streaky from all levels and I don't think he's necessarily innately better from one area or another. He just needs to work on his game more and he's still feeling out what suits his game best. Part of my point was that that's basically his primary NBA skill, bring a jump shooter with a good/quick release at that height
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 23, 2016 18:00:42 GMT -5
This is actually a really important game. If we don't want to be playing St. John's on Wednesday night , this game against Butler would be very handy. I realize we have lost 6 of 7, and the Xavier game was awful, but I am hopeful that the week break can give our guys a chance to practice and come out stronger. Also, winning 2 of 3 would guarantee our eligibility for the NIT. It might not be the NCAA tournament, but it's something worth fighting for.
|
|
|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 23, 2016 20:20:55 GMT -5
This is actually a really important game. If we don't want to be playing St. John's on Wednesday night , this game against Butler would be very handy. I realize we have lost 6 of 7, and the Xavier game was awful, but I am hopeful that the week break can give our guys a chance to practice and come out stronger. Also, winning 2 of 3 would guarantee our eligibility for the NIT. It might not be the NCAA tournament, but it's something worth fighting for.This is the most depressing sentiment I've seen all season. I'm not saying you're wrong but given where we all thought we'd be when the season started, man, that's a depressing thought.
|
|
bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,831
|
Post by bamahoya11 on Feb 23, 2016 21:08:54 GMT -5
I won't be at the game on Saturday but hope everyone there gives big cheers to DSR for his career here. His numbers really speak for themselves, and I think he has kept trying this year when other players have not been as resilient. Saturday is also a great day to remember Bradley and what he has done for us.
As for the game itself, I think it's winnable. With a week off, I hope we have made some adjustments on defense and have been able to shake the losing streak. We have the chance to win 2 of 3 to end the year and head to msg with something resembling momentum. We could also get to the NIT, and I actually agree that an NIT appearance would be something worth fighting for. We have a bunch of young players. Assuming they all stick around next year, we could benefit by playing a few extra games in a tournament setting.
Honestly, I don't know if we will win again this year. But I choose to believe that we will and that it'll start Saturday. Hoya Saxa.
|
|
Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
Posts: 1,506
|
Post by Just Cos on Feb 23, 2016 21:13:38 GMT -5
I'm all in for anything that improves our defense and fouling.
|
|