vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,326
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Post by vv83 on Feb 21, 2016 12:42:34 GMT -5
This could be the last time we face Roosevelt Jones - it feels like we have been playing against this guy for almost a decade! But I am sure other teams feel the same way about DSR. Sadly, sometimes lately some of us have felt that way about DSR!
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 21, 2016 12:43:55 GMT -5
Except Ike is not Otto. Otto was a gifted player and special talent, and that shot was automatic for him from the day he set foot on campus. That's not the case with Ike, and as you said, the risk-reward of long 2 point shots is hardly worth it. If you're going to take low percentage, long jump shots, you might as well get behind the line and try to get the extra point out of it. Nothing infuriates me more than when DSR lets go of a 20'6" shot because he has one foot halfway across the line. It's just dumb. Ike isn't Kevin Durant or even Otto Porter. Shoot the 3 or go to the hoop. Slump-aside, the numbers say differently. That is Ike's most efficient shot and shoots it better than average that's not even debatable or hyperbole. Sure if you want to ignore the slump then Ike is a wonderful player. But you can't just say "slump aside" like it's not relevant. He's been slumping almost all season and has been a massive disappointment. The 15-18 foot jumper may very well be his most efficient shot but considering his other shots are all wildly inefficient, that doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence. And there is a huge difference between better than average (Ike) and deadly automatic (Otto). My point wasn't that it's not his best weapon right now. My point was that shooting a long two is an inefficient shot to begin with and unless you're making it at an outstanding clip like Otto did, you're better off just shooting 3s since they're worth more points and the degree of difficulty is only slightly higher. Also, can you post some numbers to support the argument that he's exceedingly more efficient shooting 15-18 foot jumpers than 3 pointers? You said the numbers say differently. Can you provide "the numbers"?
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Feb 21, 2016 12:45:12 GMT -5
Believe it or not, Ike is far from the worst passer on this team. I have seen him use his height to make some nice passes down low..unfortunately, few become assists as the ball doesn't go in much for us. Again, being one of our better passers does not mean all that much. Who is a worse passer than him? Its a pretty long list but from 1 to 10 the difference is minimal.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
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Post by drquigley on Feb 21, 2016 13:01:53 GMT -5
Getting back to the game at hand. Does everyone agree that JT3 should take this weeks hiatus to focus on installing a 2-3 or 1-3-1 zone defense for the rest of the year? We can't play zone any worse than we do man and if nothing else it should reduce fouling. If you are going to play Campbell and Cameron they would seem to be much more effective at the top or wing of a 2-3 zone. Copeland and Mourning would also seem better at a wing and Govan could be a load in the middle. Hey, I know we've been burned when we play 2-3 but I keep looking at Syracuse. remember how we torched them 3 years ago (61-39) and yet they went on to the final four 3 weeks later?
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 21, 2016 13:16:59 GMT -5
Getting back to the game at hand. Does everyone agree that JT3 should take this weeks hiatus to focus on installing a 2-3 or 1-3-1 zone defense for the rest of the year? We can't play zone any worse than we do man and if nothing else it should reduce fouling. If you are going to play Campbell and Cameron they would seem to be much more effective at the top or wing of a 2-3 zone. Copeland and Mourning would also seem better at a wing and Govan could be a load in the middle. Hey, I know we've been burned when we play 2-3 but I keep looking at Syracuse. remember how we torched them 3 years ago (61-39) and yet they went on to the final four 3 weeks later? As has been pointed out elsewhere this team has no leadership and horrible communication on the floor. Both of those are the foundation of strong defense. Without them, you're going to get torched no matter what type of defense you're playing.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 21, 2016 13:39:07 GMT -5
I will be at this game and plan to cheer as loudly as humanly possible for the Hoyas no matter the outcome. I remain proud to be a Hoya fan and am looking forward to this game. HOYA SAXA.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by beenaround on Feb 21, 2016 13:47:24 GMT -5
Believe it or not, Ike is far from the worst passer on this team. I have seen him use his height to make some nice passes down low..unfortunately, few become assists as the ball doesn't go in much for us. Again, being one of our better passers does not mean all that much. Who is a worse passer than him? Rather than be negative about any of the guys...Id say Mourning and DSR are the only ones better. Maybe a few are his equal.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 21, 2016 14:10:19 GMT -5
Getting back to the game at hand. Does everyone agree that JT3 should take this weeks hiatus to focus on installing a 2-3 or 1-3-1 zone defense for the rest of the year? We can't play zone any worse than we do man and if nothing else it should reduce fouling. If you are going to play Campbell and Cameron they would seem to be much more effective at the top or wing of a 2-3 zone. Copeland and Mourning would also seem better at a wing and Govan could be a load in the middle. Hey, I know we've been burned when we play 2-3 but I keep looking at Syracuse. remember how we torched them 3 years ago (61-39) and yet they went on to the final four 3 weeks later? I certainly agree we should try something. Anything. It can't get any worse. And if we are going to try it, may as well try something somewhat funky (a 3-2?). I'm just making that up, but the point is, if you're going to be bad, at least be bad at something the opponent will have to take time trying to figure out. Once they do, then go man for a few. Then 2-3. We already know how to play those (badly) so no need to put anything new in there. It at least slows up the offense. FWIW, III did say he was reexamining everything on D, so I would be surprised if we don't see something very different tried. I can't imagine it will just be little tweaks to our man D. Well, I can imagine it....but it wouldn't be good.
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Post by trillesthoya on Feb 21, 2016 14:13:02 GMT -5
I really don't care about how this season has gone. This is DSR's last home game, and I'm going to be screaming my lungs out for him after everything he's given to us these past four years. People will criticize him for every small thing but at the end of the day he's been a hoya for four years and carried this team through (mostly) thick and thin.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,754
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Post by blueandgray on Feb 21, 2016 16:17:59 GMT -5
Believe it or not, Ike is far from the worst passer on this team. I have seen him use his height to make some nice passes down low..unfortunately, few become assists as the ball doesn't go in much for us. Again, being one of our better passers does not mean all that much. Agreed! Think he's our best entry passer. That said, his dribbling is God aweful right now.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
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Post by drquigley on Feb 21, 2016 17:23:07 GMT -5
I will be at this game and plan to cheer as loudly as humanly possible for the Hoyas no matter the outcome. I remain proud to be a Hoya fan and am looking forward to this game. HOYA SAXA. So will I. I just hope they give us something to cheer about.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 21, 2016 17:31:42 GMT -5
I will be at this game and plan to cheer as loudly as humanly possible for the Hoyas no matter the outcome. I remain proud to be a Hoya fan and am looking forward to this game. HOYA SAXA. You are a good man. Hoya Saxa to you my friend.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 21, 2016 18:20:48 GMT -5
Slump-aside, the numbers say differently. That is Ike's most efficient shot and shoots it better than average that's not even debatable or hyperbole. Sure if you want to ignore the slump then Ike is a wonderful player. But you can't just say "slump aside" like it's not relevant. He's been slumping almost all season and has been a massive disappointment. The 15-18 foot jumper may very well be his most efficient shot but considering his other shots are all wildly inefficient, that doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence. And there is a huge difference between better than average (Ike) and deadly automatic (Otto). My point wasn't that it's not his best weapon right now. My point was that shooting a long two is an inefficient shot to begin with and unless you're making it at an outstanding clip like Otto did, you're better off just shooting 3s since they're worth more points and the degree of difficulty is only slightly higher. Also, can you post some numbers to support the argument that he's exceedingly more efficient shooting 15-18 foot jumpers than 3 pointers? You said the numbers say differently. Can you provide "the numbers"? Show me the statistics that say Otto is some vastly superior shooter from 15-20 ft.....oh right, they have the same strengths. This isn't a zero-sum game.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 21, 2016 19:05:09 GMT -5
Getting back to the game at hand. Does everyone agree that JT3 should take this weeks hiatus to focus on installing a 2-3 or 1-3-1 zone defense for the rest of the year? We can't play zone any worse than we do man and if nothing else it should reduce fouling. If you are going to play Campbell and Cameron they would seem to be much more effective at the top or wing of a 2-3 zone. Copeland and Mourning would also seem better at a wing and Govan could be a load in the middle. Hey, I know we've been burned when we play 2-3 but I keep looking at Syracuse. remember how we torched them 3 years ago (61-39) and yet they went on to the final four 3 weeks later? I certainly agree we should try something. Anything. It can't get any worse. And if we are going to try it, may as well try something somewhat funky (a 3-2?). I'm just making that up, but the point is, if you're going to be bad, at least be bad at something the opponent will have to take time trying to figure out. Once they do, then go man for a few. Then 2-3. We already know how to play those (badly) so no need to put anything new in there. It at least slows up the offense. FWIW, III did say he was reexamining everything on D, so I would be surprised if we don't see something very different tried. I can't imagine it will just be little tweaks to our man D. Well, I can imagine it....but it wouldn't be good. Agreed, let's junk it up on defense. Throw everything out there and just confuse the crap out of them. A little triangle and 2, box and 1, a different press, etc. Just try something new and see if it works. What do we have to lose at this point? Also, I hope DSR can go out with a win on senior day. We spoiled senior day for Butler last year, we cannot allow them to get revenge. DSR needs to beat his hometown team.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 21, 2016 22:23:01 GMT -5
Sure if you want to ignore the slump then Ike is a wonderful player. But you can't just say "slump aside" like it's not relevant. He's been slumping almost all season and has been a massive disappointment. The 15-18 foot jumper may very well be his most efficient shot but considering his other shots are all wildly inefficient, that doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence. And there is a huge difference between better than average (Ike) and deadly automatic (Otto). My point wasn't that it's not his best weapon right now. My point was that shooting a long two is an inefficient shot to begin with and unless you're making it at an outstanding clip like Otto did, you're better off just shooting 3s since they're worth more points and the degree of difficulty is only slightly higher. Also, can you post some numbers to support the argument that he's exceedingly more efficient shooting 15-18 foot jumpers than 3 pointers? You said the numbers say differently. Can you provide "the numbers"? Show me the statistics that say Otto is some vastly superior shooter from 15-20 ft.....oh right, they have the same strengths. This isn't a zero-sum game. What??? The same strengths? You cannot possibly believe that. They absolutely do not have the same strengths. That's seriously laughable. Ike can't hold Otto's jock right now on either end of the floor, defense especially. I guess if you want to say that Ike's strength is his midrange game, that's only because he's severely deficient in most other aspects of the game. His midrange game wins by default. Otto was skilled at almost every aspect of the game, and his midrange shooting was just one of his many strengths. In terms of the actual discussion here, I never claimed that there were "numbers" to back up my assertion that Otto was better at mid-range. I only gave empirical evidence that from day one, Otto's midrage baseline jumper was incredibly efficient for him, to the point where most people would call it "automatic." I suppose my memory could be failing me, but I think most people would back up my claim that he was incredibly efficient with his midrange game. You're the one who claimed there are some "numbers" that suggest Copeland is more efficient shooting 15-18 footers than 3s. I just asked you to provide the numbers you claim back up your point.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 21, 2016 22:27:49 GMT -5
Except Ike is not Otto. Otto was a gifted player and special talent, and that shot was automatic for him from the day he set foot on campus. That's not the case with Ike, and as you said, the risk-reward of long 2 point shots is hardly worth it. If you're going to take low percentage, long jump shots, you might as well get behind the line and try to get the extra point out of it. Nothing infuriates me more than when DSR lets go of a 20'6" shot because he has one foot halfway across the line. It's just dumb. Ike isn't Kevin Durant or even Otto Porter. Shoot the 3 or go to the hoop. Slump-aside, the numbers say differently. That is Ike's most efficient shot and shoots it better than average that's not even debatable or hyperbole. Maybe Ike's best shot but metrics don't lie and still an idiotic shot to take regardless even with hyberole. What's your point?
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 22, 2016 10:10:56 GMT -5
it all about PRIDE now GO HOYAS hustle for forty minutes OR MORE we are GEORGETOWN playing for PRIDE go hoyas
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HoyaPride
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 484
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Post by HoyaPride on Feb 22, 2016 10:54:14 GMT -5
YES, Its all about ME, Please play for me Hoyas, Please!!
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 22, 2016 11:41:54 GMT -5
Show me the statistics that say Otto is some vastly superior shooter from 15-20 ft.....oh right, they have the same strengths. This isn't a zero-sum game. What??? The same strengths? You cannot possibly believe that. They absolutely do not have the same strengths. That's seriously laughable. Ike can't hold Otto's jock right now on either end of the floor, defense especially. I guess if you want to say that Ike's strength is his midrange game, that's only because he's severely deficient in most other aspects of the game. His midrange game wins by default. Otto was skilled at almost every aspect of the game, and his midrange shooting was just one of his many strengths. In terms of the actual discussion here, I never claimed that there were "numbers" to back up my assertion that Otto was better at mid-range. I only gave empirical evidence that from day one, Otto's midrage baseline jumper was incredibly efficient for him, to the point where most people would call it "automatic." I suppose my memory could be failing me, but I think most people would back up my claim that he was incredibly efficient with his midrange game. You're the one who claimed there are some "numbers" that suggest Copeland is more efficient shooting 15-18 footers than 3s. I just asked you to provide the numbers you claim back up your point. I don't think you know what strengths or empirical mean.... And I never claimed he was more efficient so just keep arguing with yourself.. Ike's best shot is his long two, unfortunately, are you really debating that (and the percentages)?
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 22, 2016 11:52:46 GMT -5
Slump-aside, the numbers say differently. That is Ike's most efficient shot and shoots it better than average that's not even debatable or hyperbole. Maybe Ike's best shot but metrics don't lie and still an idiotic shot to take regardless even with hyberole. What's your point? My point was that people put Otto on some kind of untouchable pedestal here and completely lose perspective and change memories in such a short period of time. My point was that both players can point to their long-twos as strengths, and even though Ike isn't quite as good as Otto, they are both proficient and Ike is still above average (especially for his size). Yes, it wins out as his best shot by default cause the rest of his shooting isn't great, but that still makes it his best shot. They both shoot above average from those distances, but I think the real issue is despite all this blind-support Otto gets his fans still don't even realize how good of a midrange shooter he is. This season, in the NBA, Otto is literally shooting above 50% from 9-15, 16-18, and 19-22 ft (while Beal and Wall hover around 35-40% in those areas, a huge difference) so just because Ike isn't a 50% shooter from midrange doesn't mean he is automatically bad at it. I never suggested that he continue taking a shot that is the most inefficient in basketball, just pointing out that that shot from him hasn't been what's been hurting us. If you're going to tell him to stop taking hose shots you might as well tell him to stop taking layups. That midrange jumper is the shot he gets off the easiest, it's his favorite shot, and that also happens to be one of the few places he's been able to be effective. When he steps into one dribble pull-ups with confidence he is just as good a shooter as Otto. I know, it's hard to keep perspective when we've been spoiled so much lately. Newsflash: Otoo and Ike are both proficient midrange shooters, obviously Otto is better. If Ike ever has an NBA future it's because of that midrange shot and nothing else. At his height it's a unique skill and he has a quick release (quicker than otto)
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