95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 95hoya on Dec 29, 2015 21:01:38 GMT -5
The recruiting and evaluation abilities of the current (and recent) staff is not what's wrong with this team. There is plenty of talent on this roster. Couldn't disagree more. The talent is lacking if your goal is a final four caliber team. All coaches have recruiting misses. JTIII didn't bring in lowly regarded guys. Some guys just don't translate as expected. What is great recruiting? We have a serious void at guard in terms of talent and depth.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Dec 29, 2015 21:22:59 GMT -5
Couldn't disagree more. The talent is lacking if your goal is a final four caliber team. All coaches have recruiting misses. JTIII didn't bring in lowly regarded guys. Some guys just don't translate as expected. What is great recruiting? We have a serious void at guard in terms of talent and depth. Peak, White and Copeland were all highly recruited... Even as late as last week some people were still posting that Copeland could turn pro after the season. DSR, Peak and Copeland are all ESPN Top 100 recruits which means DSR and Peak is a Top ESPN 100 back court. Think about this...the starting lineup has 4 ESPN Top 100 recruits and lost to Radford, UNC Ashville and got blown out by Monmouth. Who on those squads do u think could start for the Hoyas?
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Post by hobokenhoya on Dec 29, 2015 21:38:21 GMT -5
Lot of depressing material on the board the past couple of weeks, but something has been bothering me deeply and I haven't seen it discussed. It has to do with the three names in the subject line. These three names are unique from a recruiting perspective. Why? In the DMV recruiting community, it was understood that all three of these players were very interested in being Hoyas. One might even go as far as saying, for two of the three, wanted to be Hoyas. Despite the tournament failures, despite the negative recruiting based on playing style, demographics and academics -- these three should have been Hoyas. We didn't offer Trimble when we should have on his unofficial visit to campus (ended up bringing in Tre Campbell), we prioritized Reggie Cameron over Josh Hart, and we prioritized Paul White over Ben Bentil when Coach Hardy was brought into the fold. I am a fan of Tre Campbell, Reggie Cameron and Paul White and believe that they will be successful Hoyas. But the evaluation abilities of those on staff, and their understanding of who they could realistically recruit into the program the last several years has left much to be desired. You can and will miss in recruiting, but you miss like this and your team is in significant trouble - whether you are JT3 or Tom Izzo. It is my opinion that with those three in the program, Georgetown Basketball is as strong as ever. The talent level in the program is still good, particularly in the front court, and I am sure we will be fine. But man, what could/should have been... The recruiting and evaluation abilities of the current (and recent) staff is not what's wrong with this team. There is plenty of talent on this roster. I couldn't agree more KC! I've read a lot of your posts on the board and don't post much but I would love to hear your take on what's wrong with this team. While you post a lot, in not sure I know your thoughts on this matter and am genuinely interested. Trying to make this post sound sincere but i can't adequately do it so I'll just say this is a legitimate question of mine. Thanks.
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 95hoya on Dec 29, 2015 21:42:39 GMT -5
The recruiting and evaluation abilities of the current (and recent) staff is not what's wrong with this team. There is plenty of talent on this roster. I couldn't agree more KC! I've read a lot of your posts on the board and don't post much but I would love to hear your take on what's wrong with this team. While you post a lot, in not sure I know your thoughts on this matter and am genuinely interested. Trying to make this post sound sincere but i can't adequately do it so I'll just say this is a legitimate question of mine. Thanks. Our backcourt consists of a SG playing PG and SF playing SG who absolutely can't shoot. That is not a strong backcourt. We have had success recruiting combo forwards. We have a several of them to the point they are redundant. We need difference making guards.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 29, 2015 22:45:31 GMT -5
Couldn't disagree more. The talent is lacking if your goal is a final four caliber team. All coaches have recruiting misses. JTIII didn't bring in lowly regarded guys. Some guys just don't translate as expected. What is great recruiting? We have a serious void at guard in terms of talent and depth. except we go 10 deep and have multiple players on the roster with NBA upside. Do people even read the drivel they post on this board before hitting the send button anymore?
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 95hoya on Dec 29, 2015 23:08:03 GMT -5
Who has NBA upside besides Copeland and eventually Govan? Before you say Peak, he isn't mentioned in any mock drafts or draft rankings. He doesn't have a skill that translates to the NBA.
Copeland is going to have a long NBA career.
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Post by trillesthoya on Dec 29, 2015 23:13:48 GMT -5
Who has NBA upside besides Copeland and eventually Govan? Before you say Peak, he isn't mentioned in any mock drafts or draft rankings. He doesn't have a skill that translates to the NBA. Copeland is going to have a long NBA career. I'd say a lot of our players have NBA possibilities. Marcus is definitely someone to keep an eye on, I'm interested in watching his growth over the next few months cause I think that will give us a better indication of his ceiling. There were points last year where I was convinced Paul had a future as well, and I'd say it's too early for us to say it's impossible for him to make the NBA until this nagging injury goes away.
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 30, 2015 1:40:26 GMT -5
Lot of depressing material on the board the past couple of weeks, but something has been bothering me deeply and I haven't seen it discussed. It has to do with the three names in the subject line. These three names are unique from a recruiting perspective. Why? In the DMV recruiting community, it was understood that all three of these players were very interested in being Hoyas. One might even go as far as saying, for two of the three, wanted to be Hoyas. Despite the tournament failures, despite the negative recruiting based on playing style, demographics and academics -- these three should have been Hoyas. We didn't offer Trimble when we should have on his unofficial visit to campus (ended up bringing in Tre Campbell), we prioritized Reggie Cameron over Josh Hart, and we prioritized Paul White over Ben Bentil when Coach Hardy was brought into the fold.I am a fan of Tre Campbell, Reggie Cameron and Paul White and believe that they will be successful Hoyas. But the evaluation abilities of those on staff, and their understanding of who they could realistically recruit into the program the last several years has left much to be desired. You can and will miss in recruiting, but you miss like this and your team is in significant trouble - whether you are JT3 or Tom Izzo. It is my opinion that with those three in the program, Georgetown Basketball is as strong as ever. The talent level in the program is still good, particularly in the front court, and I am sure we will be fine. But man, what could/should have been... Paul White was a better player/prospect then Ben Bentil was coming out of high school and it wasn't even close. In high school Paul White was a highly skilled do it all combo forward and Bentil hadn't really shown much of a skill set outside of post play, energy guy and a physical presence. Bentil's game really resembled Hopkins game coming out of high school. You also have to look at the roster during the 2013-2014 season. Are starting 4 that year were Hopkins and Lubick and Smith at the 5 until he became ineligible between semesters. So in conference play are 4/5 rotation was Bowen, Lubick and Hopkins. Very little skill or range in that group. JT3 knows that his offense requires space to work and with that group teams could just defend the key and the Hoyas struggled to score in JT3 traditional offense so much he made significant adjustments in his offense by basically going pick n roll with Starks and DSR. The team needed to add skill and versatility to go along with length in its forwards going forward, not size and physicality which is what Bentil's game looked to be coming out of High School/AAU. Let's give Bentil credit, he absolutely improved his skill set and became a much better player then any could have expected while Paul White has been hindered by an injured hip. At the time, JT3 prioritizing PW over Bentil was and is still the right decision. Looking at the prospects JT3 and the current staff are prioritizing, they are obviously looking for highly skilled versatile players with length in the last few classes. If we had gotten Bentil, maybe we don't get Derrickson or Govan. You never know what's going to happen with players in recruiting. I'm sure if everybody knew that Bentil was going to be an 18 & 11 guy by his sophomore year, he would have been one of the most sought after prospects by every school in the country.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 30, 2015 3:02:10 GMT -5
Who has NBA upside besides Copeland and eventually Govan? Before you say Peak, he isn't mentioned in any mock drafts or draft rankings. He doesn't have a skill that translates to the NBA. Copeland is going to have a long NBA career. Ironic you say that about Peak, considering the NBA team I cover likes Peak more than Copeland. He absolutely has an NBA skill. He can get to the basket at an NBA level for one. For two, he's a plus defender. He develops a corner three and he'll be in the league for a long while.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 30, 2015 6:06:57 GMT -5
Who has NBA upside besides Copeland and eventually Govan? Before you say Peak, he isn't mentioned in any mock drafts or draft rankings. He doesn't have a skill that translates to the NBA. Copeland is going to have a long NBA career. Ironic you say that about Peak, considering the NBA team I cover likes Peak more than Copeland. He absolutely has an NBA skill. He can get to the basket at an NBA level for one. For two, he's a plus defender. He develops a corner three and he'll be in the league for a long while. The NBA team you cover must not be very smart. Because Peak looks nothing like an NBA player at this point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 7:34:58 GMT -5
I don't understand the point of this thread. You win some, you lose some. When we recruited Otto Porter, did anyone think by his Sophomore year, he would be one of the top 5 players in the country? I am sure that recruiters from other teams were kicking themselves for not going after him. When Roy Hibbert came in, did anyone think he was going to be a starter in the NBA??
Please!!!!!!!!!!!! Enough of this!!!!!!!!!
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by seaweed on Dec 30, 2015 9:30:23 GMT -5
Ironic you say that about Peak, considering the NBA team I cover likes Peak more than Copeland. He absolutely has an NBA skill. He can get to the basket at an NBA level for one. For two, he's a plus defender. He develops a corner three and he'll be in the league for a long while. The NBA team you cover must not be very smart. Because Peak looks nothing like an NBA player at this point. Baseless ad hominems - that's what I come here for.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 30, 2015 9:39:58 GMT -5
Who has NBA upside besides Copeland and eventually Govan? Before you say Peak, he isn't mentioned in any mock drafts or draft rankings. He doesn't have a skill that translates to the NBA. Copeland is going to have a long NBA career. Tell that the NBA GMs who have said otherwise...
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 30, 2015 9:42:33 GMT -5
Ironic you say that about Peak, considering the NBA team I cover likes Peak more than Copeland. He absolutely has an NBA skill. He can get to the basket at an NBA level for one. For two, he's a plus defender. He develops a corner three and he'll be in the league for a long while. The NBA team you cover must not be very smart. Because Peak looks nothing like an NBA player at this point. It's called seeing the bigger picture and having an eye for how talent will develop. Of course he's not good enough to be in the NBA right now.
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 95hoya on Dec 30, 2015 9:45:40 GMT -5
Who has NBA upside besides Copeland and eventually Govan? Before you say Peak, he isn't mentioned in any mock drafts or draft rankings. He doesn't have a skill that translates to the NBA. Copeland is going to have a long NBA career. Tell that the NBA GMs who have said otherwise... What NBA GMs? If he bolts he has no chance of getting drafted. None.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by This Just In on Dec 30, 2015 9:48:40 GMT -5
In regards to NBA teams looking at Peak and Copeland can anyone give some provide names?
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 30, 2015 10:24:17 GMT -5
Peak's averaging less than double figures in points, 2.7 rebounds/game, 1.3 assists/game while shooting 41.9% from the field, 28% from 3, and 70.9% from the line. He's also fouled out of numerous games because he can't defend without using his hands. Anybody claiming Peak is an NBA prospect at this point is either a complete homer or doesn't watch the games.
At this point, Kaleb Johnson appears to be a better NBA prospect than LJ Peak.
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tonyparker
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by tonyparker on Dec 30, 2015 10:27:32 GMT -5
A couple of quick responses:
1.) I know Bentil played HS ball in Delaware. I never said he was from the DMV. I said he was in our backyard, some might deem Delaware out of our backyard - fine. That said, amongst the AAU community in the DMV, it was known Bentil was a Hoya if Georgetown wanted him. Same with Hart. Can't go that far with Trimble, because Terps made him a priority before we did, despite the fact that we had a head start.
2.) I'm not guessing here. Ask blueandgray, Hoya Ron, and others who would know. These three would be Hoyas if the staff had wanted them.
3.) I never said that Georgetown prioritized Tre over Romelo. Tre was the guard Georgetown took in a class where we could and should have had Romelo.
4.) There is an argument to be made that White and Cameron looked like superior offensive prospects coming out of high school to Bentil and Hart. This is my point -- the guys that get paid to make the call on who will ultimately be better, one who gets paid over $2 million, look to have made the wrong call three times. As a diehard, lifelong Hoya fan and someone who is relatively plugged in on local hoops, who hears s&^# daily about how our staff has committed malpractice on the recruiting front in recent years - I find that very, very frustrating.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Dec 30, 2015 10:54:56 GMT -5
Peak's averaging less than double figures in points, 2.7 rebounds/game, 1.3 assists/game while shooting 41.9% from the field, 28% from 3, and 70.9% from the line. He's also fouled out of numerous games because he can't defend without using his hands. Anybody claiming Peak is an NBA prospect at this point is either a complete homer or doesn't watch the games. At this point, Kaleb Johnson appears to be a better NBA prospect than LJ Peak. For whatever reason this board has a group of posters who consistently overstate the chances of our guards playing in the NBA. Here's one thread on Starks playing in the NBA, though if you search the board for "Starks NBA" you'll find many, many more. This is a guy who's currently averaging 13.8 points / 24% 3FG / 2.7 A / 1.9 TO on a 6-10 team in Australia, because - surprise! - a guy who was just a decent shooter and subpar passer for a lead guard wasn't able to magically make his flaws go away, and there are a ton of guys 6'0"-6'5" who can play basketball out there. You can find similar overestimates of Clark's NBA chances (i.e. some not none) and Chris Wright's (pretty much guaranteed).
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 95hoya on Dec 30, 2015 11:15:39 GMT -5
Maryland had Dalonte Hill. Trimble wasn't going anywhere but Maryland. He wanted to be recruited by Geoegetown, but that doesn't mean he wanted and would have gone there.
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