calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Dec 31, 2015 8:31:03 GMT -5
I admire what Hayes has done so far but still consider him a very limited player at this point. By no means is he at the level of Sims in the final year of his time at Georgetown. Mostly because Sims was quicker and more mobile. Govan is inexperienced and still learning. Both have important roles for this team and hopefully will improve rapidly. Reality check comes mid-afternoon on Saturday when they will face two big and athletic posts from Marquette. That is the time to prove their worth.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 31, 2015 8:46:53 GMT -5
Big win for the Hoyas. They were the tougher and more prepared team. If they play like that going forward, they will have at least a decent record in the BEAST- I would say 9-9 at worst. Good end to 2016. HOYA SAXA!!!
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 31, 2015 9:26:22 GMT -5
It seemed like when the guards were on the wing, they were looking to drive and kick to the opposite corner for the three. Peak and Copeland both hit threes on a drive and kick, and I know I saw that play run a few more times. May have been one of those "adjustments" folks were calling for.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 31, 2015 9:39:46 GMT -5
I admire what Hayes has done so far but still consider him a very limited player at this point. By no means is he at the level of Sims in the final year of his time at Georgetown. Mostly because Sims was quicker and more mobile. Govan is inexperienced and still learning. Both have important roles for this team and hopefully will improve rapidly. Reality check comes mid-afternoon on Saturday when they will face two big and athletic posts from Marquette. That is the time to prove their worth. Agree with you Cal. Plus, Sims was far more experienced all the way along. Hayes started playing in HS and was injured and missed two years. Sims played high level AAU ball and was Baltimore's Co-POY his senior year. HE also got minutes averaging 7-14 mpg his first three years. Definitely a disappointment until his senior year, but at least he was building off a stronger and deeper base than Hayes is. Sims was a better player senior year than Hayes is, but Hayes is far better than we expected this season. I hope his development and confidence continue to grow. We need him. But we need him to work in the post.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Dec 31, 2015 9:42:21 GMT -5
Reading this thread I think Govan's contributions in the game have been underplayed a bit. He gave us some solid minutes (4 point and 5 rebs in 16 minutes, nice FT stroke) but, more important, I thought he added a spark for a stretch there. He is only going to get better as BE play continues...
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Post by bearsandbulls on Dec 31, 2015 10:00:57 GMT -5
Hoyas definitely the better team last night. Always good to take one on the road in the BE. Team played well and crowd size due to holidays minimized home court advantage. This young team is building upward slowly.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Dec 31, 2015 10:04:55 GMT -5
I don't want to take anything away from what Hayes is doing, but saying that he's playing better than Senior year Henry Sims is ridiculous. Senior year Sims was a force on both ends of the floor. I couldn't agree more with your post which is why I made the comment. This board doesn't want to hear that so don't worry they will they us why. They have the knowledge. I don't remember the Sims being a force on offense other than incredibly good on offensive boards and put backs. After 3 years he finally learned what to do in the modified Princeton offense (which is now mostly gone, as most Freshmen had a tough time learning it, which limited their playing time). Sims was a beast defensively, specifically on the boards. Sims made a great improvement his senior year. Hayes is much better offensively than Sims was. I really want to see Hayes dunking and move away from the soft put backs that drift away, but likely has to do with his thumb still giving him problems. But, Sims didn't really have much of an offensive game his senior year outside of offensive rebounds. Sims errant passes still were a bit of a problem his senior year as well, which improve toward the end of that season. I also just don't remember Sims standing out. I don't remember the beast moments. I remember Trawick being a lot more of a beast that year and talking about Sims needing that same drive, passion, and beast level. I remember Sims standing out a few games that season, but it was far from a regular thing. He sure wasn't a beast all season. I look at Sims as the whole of that season and not just the bright spots.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Dec 31, 2015 10:05:35 GMT -5
Pretty obvious last night that Ike and Marcus can't shoot off the dribble. Ike especially looks horrible if he isn't planted before he shoots. Would love to see them go to the hoop more. Really only Peak and DSR seem able to drive and score. And Tre was okay, I.e. He didn't look awful but when will he become more than just okay?
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 31, 2015 10:25:34 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more with your post which is why I made the comment. This board doesn't want to hear that so don't worry they will they us why. They have the knowledge. I don't remember the Sims being a force on offense other than incredibly good on offensive boards and put backs. After 3 years he finally learned what to do in the modified Princeton offense (which is now mostly gone, as most Freshmen had a tough time learning it, which limited their playing time). Sims was a beast defensively, specifically on the boards. Sims made a great improvement his senior year. Hayes is much better offensively than Sims was. I really want to see Hayes dunking and move away from the soft put backs that drift away, but likely has to do with his thumb still giving him problems. But, Sims didn't really have much of an offensive game his senior year outside of offensive rebounds. Sims errant passes still were a bit of a problem his senior year as well, which improve toward the end of that season. I also just don't remember Sims standing out. I don't remember the beast moments. I remember Trawick being a lot more of a beast that year and talking about Sims needing that same drive, passion, and beast level. I remember Sims standing out a few games that season, but it was far from a regular thing. He sure wasn't a beast all season. I look at Sims as the whole of that season and not just the bright spots. clearly having a bad memory of that season. Sims averaged points 11.6 a game and was really consistent for us that year. Jabril only average 3.4 points per game. he had games of 19, 8, 8, 8, 24(memphis), 14, 13, 8, 7, 17, 12, 7, 11, 13, 10, 10, 8, 16, 12, 10, 13, 13, 6, 9, 10, 7, 12, 12, 5, 20 (pitt), 22 (cinci), 15(belmont), 4(NC state)
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 31, 2015 10:25:51 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more with your post which is why I made the comment. This board doesn't want to hear that so don't worry they will they us why. They have the knowledge. I don't remember the Sims being a force on offense other than incredibly good on offensive boards and put backs. After 3 years he finally learned what to do in the modified Princeton offense (which is now mostly gone, as most Freshmen had a tough time learning it, which limited their playing time). Sims was a beast defensively, specifically on the boards. Sims made a great improvement his senior year. Hayes is much better offensively than Sims was. I really want to see Hayes dunking and move away from the soft put backs that drift away, but likely has to do with his thumb still giving him problems. But, Sims didn't really have much of an offensive game his senior year outside of offensive rebounds. Sims errant passes still were a bit of a problem his senior year as well, which improve toward the end of that season. I also just don't remember Sims standing out. I don't remember the beast moments. I remember Trawick being a lot more of a beast that year and talking about Sims needing that same drive, passion, and beast level. I remember Sims standing out a few games that season, but it was far from a regular thing. He sure wasn't a beast all season. I look at Sims as the whole of that season and not just the bright spots. You must be thinking of his junior year. Or mistaking him for Lubick. Or something. I don't know how else to explain your description of Sims'senior year. He had an array of post moves, was much more comfortable in the pinch post either driving to the hoop or passing (two thing I have never seen Brad do), and was more mobile generally. Trawick was not a key cog on that team. For what it's worth, I think both of our centers showed some improvement in yesterday's game and further development. I thought the interior defense was pretty good. I liked the passing out of the post better. And I thought Jesse's one spinning post move was the most aggressive post move I've seen from him. I wish it had gone down for the sake of his confidence. If the sixteen minutes Jesse got last night (and will, roughly, continue to get) isn't enough to provide for his development, then there's something wrong more generally.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Dec 31, 2015 10:41:55 GMT -5
Any conference win on the road is a good one. That said, I hope we can continue to shoot over 40% from 3 and make 10 threes a game because you can win a lot of games doing that. DSR did not play well in the second half, but he did close out the game with two nice assists. It will only get harder from here (except SJU).
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Locker on Dec 31, 2015 10:48:43 GMT -5
Henry's assist rate in 2012 was 27.3 -- good for #163 in the nation among all players and probably one of the two or three highest rates for any big man in college basketball that year.
In fact, only one Hoya during the JT3 era has ever produced assists at a higher rate (per possession) -- Chris Wright in 2011 (32.1).
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blueeagle
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Win or lose, it's the school we choose.
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Post by blueeagle on Dec 31, 2015 10:54:54 GMT -5
Good road win. We played well enough and DePaul couldn't hit their shots.
This season, I think we will only go as far as Hayes and our 3-point shooting will take us. A legitimate inside presence will allow better ball movement, and consistent 3-point shooting will open up lanes for penetration (by LJ, DSR, and maybe KJ). Our offense relies heavily on outside shooting as most of our players are more capable of hitting spot up jumpers than they are at dribbling into the lane and finishing at the rim. The backdoor will only be available a handful of times all game. As previously stated, Ike, Marcus, Reggie, and Tre have been unable to demonstrate any consistent ability to drive into the lane to punish the opposing defense. I was hoping Paul could fill this role along with LJ and DSR.
Defense and rebounding remain works in progress.
Confidence has a lot to do with how young players perform and push through adversity. Let's put a string of wins together and get ready for a strong showing in March. The talent and the pieces are there. The mindset has to be sharpened.
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wnyhoya
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Post by wnyhoya on Dec 31, 2015 10:58:17 GMT -5
It seemed like when the guards were on the wing, they were looking to drive and kick to the opposite corner for the three. Peak and Copeland both hit threes on a drive and kick, and I know I saw that play run a few more times. May have been one of those "adjustments" folks were calling for. Loved how our guards were looking to attack. DSR had multiple chances to take some questionable threes where he jabs and shoots but rather decided not to and kept probing the lane. Although he had some shots blocked going to the basket he opens so much up for us by attacking. Hopefully he continues this going forward. Thought we also did a nice job in the second half of hitting the roller off of some of the ball screens. If teams hedge hard like they usually do against us we have to make them pay with a quick entry, or if there is over rotation on the backside to defend the roll, a quick skip to the corner/wing. Very encouraged by this performance, probably moreso than other posters. Also LJ looked so much more engaged tonight and under control for the most part. Ike needs to stay down on defense and stop standing up straight. Now I'm just rambling...good win, on to Marquette.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Dec 31, 2015 10:58:47 GMT -5
By his senior year, Hank was a very polished college big man. Could pass, handle, shoot from 16 feet, in addition to the rebounding and defense. Love everything Hayes is doing for us this year, but no comparison between the two in terms of overall offensive game.
And further...Great win over Depaul!!!
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 31, 2015 11:19:30 GMT -5
By his senior year, Hank was a very polished college big man. Could pass, handle, shoot from 16 feet, in addition to the rebounding and defense. Love everything Hayes is doing for us this year, but no comparison between the two in terms of overall offensive game. And further...Great win over Depaul!!! I think Hayes compares pretty favorably, actually. In his senior year, Sims averaged 11.6 ppg and 6 rpg on 46.3% from the field. Hayes is currently averaging 9.6 ppg, 8.2 rpg on 53.8% from the field. If anything, we just need Bradley to get more post touches.
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gahoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by gahoya on Dec 31, 2015 11:21:41 GMT -5
Hayes has to be the shortest 7 footer in college basketball. I'm all in favor of Jessie getting PT over him. Jessie hasn't been able to finish bunnies this year (not that Hayes has been good at that, recently), but as that comes he will become a force. A lot better on the p&r then Hayes, showed a nice move (missed unfortunately) in that quick drop step, proving that he has more than just the same repetitive jump hook. Also doesn't jump at every shot on the floor like Hayes does, which ends up w/ Hayes either fouling or taking himself out of the play. And hopefully Govan will show he has the hand strength to hold onto a rebound for once. Brad's hands are just soft in the wrong way.
Really, I just don't understand how Hayes keeps getting mentioned for these most improved awards. Sure, he improved a lot and had a few great games early. But lately, I think Hayes has just looked flat out bad, and I'm enjoying watching Jessie play.
Still haven't seen the center-less line up, though.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Dec 31, 2015 11:23:15 GMT -5
By his senior year, Hank was a very polished college big man. Could pass, handle, shoot from 16 feet, in addition to the rebounding and defense. Love everything Hayes is doing for us this year, but no comparison between the two in terms of overall offensive game. And further...Great win over Depaul!!! I think Hayes compares pretty favorably, actually. In his senior year, Sims averaged 11.6 ppg and 6 rpg on 46.3% from the field. Hayes is currently averaging 9.6 ppg, 8.2 rpg on 53.8% from the field. If anything, we just need Bradley to get more post touches. Good points. Should not have said "no comparison". I really meant that Henry was a much more polished and diverse player, with the good handle, passing and outside shooting. Bradley is actually probably better in the low post in terms of scoring.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 31, 2015 11:32:26 GMT -5
The major problem is how terrible Hayes is defensively. He really has no idea what he is doing on that side of the court.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Dec 31, 2015 11:38:53 GMT -5
By his senior year, Hank was a very polished college big man. Could pass, handle, shoot from 16 feet, in addition to the rebounding and defense. Love everything Hayes is doing for us this year, but no comparison between the two in terms of overall offensive game. And further...Great win over Depaul!!! I had forgotten about Sims' 16 foot shot, particularly around the elbow. He had good bounce with good 2 dribble handle to drive. Hayes doesn't have the bounce (hardly at all) nor quickness, but had good speed, which he shows getting down court on breaks. Hayes does have the ability (due to size and length) to change shots and plays when he is on defense. Sims didn't quite have this, but Sims did have good leaping and blocking skills. Sims athletic game is similar to the type of game Govan has, but Jesse is a much better shooter mid-range and outside (his handle and passing need a bit more work). Sims played well on the balls of his feet, where Hayes is more flat footed (that really needs to change, when he came in he was more balls of his feet as a good chunk of his high school game was as a 2 or 3 before a growth spurt). Thanks for the reminders on Sims. Sims didn't hit his stride until they were into Big East play. He was much improved coming into the start of his senior year, but it all didn't gel until BE play got going. As the season went on he improved as well.
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