lda05816
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 606
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LJ
Jan 18, 2017 11:10:59 GMT -5
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Post by lda05816 on Jan 18, 2017 11:10:59 GMT -5
Not up for debate. We would be better with him. I think we'd be better with him, too. But I disagree that it's not up for debate. Two years ago, when DSR (briefly) flirted with leaving early, we all were so relieved that he eventually came back. In retrospect, might we have been a better team last season without him? Maybe. Seemed like we square pegged a round hole by asking him to run the point, and maybe without him dominating the ball, some of the other guys (Copeland?) might have developed differently. Maybe/maybe not. I'm not saying yes or no re: LJ. And - all else being equal - I'd rather have him next year than not. But the dynamics of the roster and the rotation can change significantly from one year to the next (e.g. at this time last year, Pryor and Mulmore were not on our radar and we all thought Hayes would be graduating), so it's hard to really project how things might shake out. The only reason we may have been better without DSR is because he was playing out of position. LJ will not be playing out of position next year if he returns and whoever fills in if he leaves will not be as good.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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LJ
Jan 18, 2017 12:28:21 GMT -5
rockhoya likes this
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 12:28:21 GMT -5
I think we'd be better with him, too. But I disagree that it's not up for debate. Two years ago, when DSR (briefly) flirted with leaving early, we all were so relieved that he eventually came back. In retrospect, might we have been a better team last season without him? Maybe. Seemed like we square pegged a round hole by asking him to run the point, and maybe without him dominating the ball, some of the other guys (Copeland?) might have developed differently. Maybe/maybe not. I'm not saying yes or no re: LJ. And - all else being equal - I'd rather have him next year than not. But the dynamics of the roster and the rotation can change significantly from one year to the next (e.g. at this time last year, Pryor and Mulmore were not on our radar and we all thought Hayes would be graduating), so it's hard to really project how things might shake out. The only reason we may have been better without DSR is because he was playing out of position. LJ will not be playing out of position next year if he returns and whoever fills in if he leaves will not be as good. Fair point. What I'm getting at is that it's possible that LJ leaves and we end up being better because: Waters ends up being a huge star/we get a great grad transfer or JuCo that we don't even know exists right now/one or more of Govan, Derrickson, Mosely makes a huge leap/etc etc etc...it's also possible that he stays and we're even worse because: Waters ends up sucking/Injuries kill us/Govan, Derrickson, Mosely all flatline in their development (or transfer!)/etc etc etc... It's easy as fans to think in a linear fashion, but somehow things never quite move so straightforwardly from one year to the next. If you had told me a year ago that neither White nor Copeland would be on the roster right now, and that Hayes, Pryor, and Mulmore would all be part of our rotation, I would have thought you were nuts, right? I would have figured White was going to come back from injury better than ever, Copeland was going to make the leap to All-Big East level performer, Hayes was going to graduate, and who the hell are Rodney Pryor and Jonathan Mulmore? A lot of moving parts all the time...
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lda05816
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 606
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LJ
Jan 18, 2017 12:53:06 GMT -5
Post by lda05816 on Jan 18, 2017 12:53:06 GMT -5
The only reason we may have been better without DSR is because he was playing out of position. LJ will not be playing out of position next year if he returns and whoever fills in if he leaves will not be as good. Fair point. What I'm getting at is that it's possible that LJ leaves and we end up being better because: Waters ends up being a huge star/we get a great grad transfer or JuCo that we don't even know exists right now/one or more of Govan, Derrickson, Mosely makes a huge leap/etc etc etc...it's also possible that he stays and we're even worse because: Waters ends up sucking/Injuries kill us/Govan, Derrickson, Mosely all flatline in their development (or transfer!)/etc etc etc... It's easy as fans to think in a linear fashion, but somehow things never quite move so straightforwardly from one year to the next. If you had told me a year ago that neither White nor Copeland would be on the roster right now, and that Hayes, Pryor, and Mulmore would all be part of our rotation, I would have thought you were nuts, right? I would have figured White was going to come back from injury better than ever, Copeland was going to make the leap to All-Big East level performer, Hayes was going to graduate, and who the hell are Rodney Pryor and Jonathan Mulmore? A lot of moving parts all the time... I definitely agree with you as I have been guilty of this myself. I see the incoming recruits and the exiting current players and think we will be better due to perceived talent increase. But you're right, there are a lot of unforeseen things that can happen in the offseason or recruits don't live up to expectation. The point I was making is after all the dust settles, our team would be better with LJ next year as opposed to without him even if that means we end up being worse than this year.
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LJ
Jan 18, 2017 12:58:13 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 18, 2017 12:58:13 GMT -5
Absolutely, there's no guarantee we'd be better next year than this year regardless of whether LJ comes back. But I think the real point is that we'd be better with him than without him. That's not even up for debate, is it? Not up for debate. We would be better with him. Related, I hate the myth that "no one develops" under JTIII. Sure, there are lots of examples of players that don't (and you mention some). But there are tons of examples of players that have. LJ is one of them! I'd suggest he's been better every year he's been here. So, in his case, I do think it would be reasonable to suggest he'd improve some more going into next year. I think this is an example of where folks are familiar with their own roster (and the "failures" on it) and are only familiar with the players on other teams that have improved for the obvious reason that you don't see the ones that don't (since they don't play, transfer, etc.). I'll use Villanova as an easy example since everyone is so complimentary of Wright these days (and rightfully so). In 2011, their recruiting class consisted of four players, all three or four star recruits and three of them ranked in the ESPN100. Tyrone Johnson played one year, got plenty of minutes but didn't do much, and immediately transferred. Achraf Yacoubou was also a top 100 recruit, he played 10 MPG his first two years, didn't do much, and transferred. The final four star recruit was Markus Kennedy -- who also transferred after one year and went on to a good career at SMU. That leaves Darrun Hilliard, who was lowest rated and had the best career. One out of four. Now, the next couple years, they had great recruiting classes, guys developed, they win a championship, and so on. But we could do the same at virtually any school. Those players you mentioned were not upperclassmen. If you look at my list, I only included our upperclassmen. The listed upperclassmen have not improved. That's not up for debate. BTW, I'm not saying that players don't develop under JT3. We've seen Jabril do it and LJ as you said, among others. I don't agree with you that "there are tons of examples of players that have". If that were so, we'd be a better team with so many upperclassmen this year. I just said don't go for the "we're going to be better next year" just because you're counting on natural development. If you believe that Bradley has not improved since his freshman year, your memory is a little faulty. Granted his play this year seems no better than last season, and possibly a step back.
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LJ
Jan 18, 2017 13:04:25 GMT -5
Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 18, 2017 13:04:25 GMT -5
LJ looks like a possible second rounder at the moment...having said that, he may or may not return. I hope that he makes the best decision for himself and his family.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,357
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LJ
Jan 18, 2017 17:04:55 GMT -5
Post by prhoya on Jan 18, 2017 17:04:55 GMT -5
Not up for debate. We would be better with him. Those players you mentioned were not upperclassmen. If you look at my list, I only included our upperclassmen. The listed upperclassmen have not improved. That's not up for debate. BTW, I'm not saying that players don't develop under JT3. We've seen Jabril do it and LJ as you said, among others. I don't agree with you that "there are tons of examples of players that have". If that were so, we'd be a better team with so many upperclassmen this year. I just said don't go for the "we're going to be better next year" just because you're counting on natural development. If you believe that Bradley has not improved since his freshman year, your memory is a little faulty. Granted his play this year seems no better than last season, and possibly a step back. I'm on record as to his improvement throughout his career and how he wasn't used properly. I'm not sure what has happened this season after last year's season. Maybe he's forcing everything. But, there's still time...
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McBricks
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
What Rocks.
Posts: 1,173
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LJ
Jan 24, 2017 13:30:49 GMT -5
Post by McBricks on Jan 24, 2017 13:30:49 GMT -5
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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LJ
Jan 24, 2017 13:41:28 GMT -5
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 24, 2017 13:41:28 GMT -5
LJ has lost his J. Someone stated in another thread that it could be fatigue from all of the minutes early in the year. It could be the groin strain. I don't know but at this moment it may be wise for LJ to come back and team up with Tremont to improve his stock. I still say that he will be drafted if he declares because a GM will fall in love with his athleticism....IMO
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,508
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LJ
Jan 24, 2017 13:50:28 GMT -5
Post by bostonfan on Jan 24, 2017 13:50:28 GMT -5
LJ has lost his J. Someone stated in another thread that it could be fatigue from all of the minutes early in the year. It could be the groin strain. I don't know but at this moment it may be wise for LJ to come back and team up with Tremont to improve his stock. I still say that he will be drafted if he declares because a GM will fall in love with his athleticism....IMO I really think that groin strain has hampered him lately. That is one of those injuries that lingers for a long time and the only real cure is rest, which he is not getting, in that he plays almost the entire game. Give him credit to play through the injury. I think it has effected his jump shot and his ability to finish around the rim. He was making everything around the rim early in the year but now he is missing some of those opportunities he is creating. Just losing a little bit of lift will cause some of the shots to rim out where early on he was finishing everything. Hope his health improves and whatever decision he makes about next season works out for him and his family.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,591
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LJ
Jan 30, 2017 17:41:03 GMT -5
tashoya likes this
Post by DanMcQ on Jan 30, 2017 17:41:03 GMT -5
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McBricks
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
What Rocks.
Posts: 1,173
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Post by McBricks on Jan 30, 2017 18:09:33 GMT -5
LJ looks like a possible second rounder at the moment...having said that, he may or may not return. I hope that he makes the best decision for himself and his family. I certainly wouldn't hold a player back from wanting to go play professionally and make some cash. Trust me, if anyone had offered me $500K+ to leave school early for a job, I would have jumped at it. But let's be honest, LJ simply isn't ready for the NBA. He'd likely get an offer overseas and if that's what he wants to do, then he should go for it. But as someone who watches a lot of NBA ball, there is no way he could compete without a ton of hard work. And even then, he's lucky to make a roster. If this team continues to improve this season, I hope people close to him counsel him to stay with the program, get a degree and be a true leader next year.
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hoyas315
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,102
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Post by hoyas315 on Jan 31, 2017 16:24:43 GMT -5
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LJ
Jan 31, 2017 17:18:15 GMT -5
tashoya likes this
Post by centercourt400s on Jan 31, 2017 17:18:15 GMT -5
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lda05816
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 606
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Post by lda05816 on Jan 31, 2017 18:23:15 GMT -5
Man the Big East is loaded. The Naismith player of the week only gets Weekly Honor Roll in conference
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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LJ
Jan 31, 2017 19:33:32 GMT -5
Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 31, 2017 19:33:32 GMT -5
Man the Big East is loaded. The Naismith player of the week only gets Weekly Honor Roll in conference I didn't look it up, but I wondered who had a better week than LJ!
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,328
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LJ
Jan 31, 2017 20:10:02 GMT -5
Post by tashoya on Jan 31, 2017 20:10:02 GMT -5
Way to go, LJ! Well deserved!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 1, 2017 0:00:45 GMT -5
Whether he goes pro or stays next year, LJ needs to spend dozens of hours this summer working on driving hard to the hoop - then stopping hard to go up for the 8-10 foot jumper. He could score 25 a game.
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hoyalaw33
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 134
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Post by hoyalaw33 on Feb 1, 2017 0:10:07 GMT -5
And-1 on a great drive, a HUGE block!!, and then closes the game out with a wonderful lay-in. Kid makes winning basketball plays. Went back and watched the last 2 minutes. I think most people assume the guy on Depaul just missed a lay-up with about 40 seconds, but in reality Peak came weak side and got a hand on it. That play might have saved our season. Heck of an effort
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 1, 2017 0:58:02 GMT -5
Kid had 5 TOs (two offensive fouls), which is bad, but in crunch time, when we needed him, he came through. He played winning ball at the right time.
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Post by goyahoya69 on Feb 1, 2017 15:05:08 GMT -5
every now and then, pryor will go on a shooting streak and amaze us, but i hope none of us forget that peak is undoubtedly our best player and one of the best in the country. i love that kid and hope he does whatever is best for him and his family after this year. maybe that means entering the draft, trying out the NBA, and if he fails, going overseas to make money. or maybe that means putting all of that on hold for one more year so that he can get his degree.
this kid seems to bring it every game, and i assume that translates to other facets of his life as well. i dont see any lack of motivation being a problem for LJ, regardless of what his post-gtown career holds.
if this really is his last year as a hoya, i hope we can give him a better sendoff than we gave markel, DSR, and other hoyas who deserved more on the court in their final year here.
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