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Post by JohnnyJones on Dec 2, 2015 1:05:28 GMT -5
5 min to game time and there are literally about 150 people here. Maybe 30 students. Attendance: 4,062: the smallest regular season home crowd in 31 years. www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/bball.htmIt was particularly sparse tonight. I relocated back to the DC area in the summer of '11 and have missed a total of 4 Verizon games in the last 4+ seasons, so I usually have a pretty good sense of what the crowd will be like for a particular game - and I have for the most part accepted it. But I continue to be a bit puzzled by the student section. They do a great job for the one or two "big name" home games, but are there not even 100 students that are really into the basketball team (i.e., would show up for all home games, including Tuesday night v. UMES)? Kudos to the small group that showed up tonight and were into it, but it is stunning how few were there tonight. I expect Saturday will be the other end of the spectrum (although there are still some seats available in 100s/200s and a ton still unsold in the 400s).
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jester
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,006
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Post by jester on Dec 2, 2015 2:45:50 GMT -5
Weird game for me...just caught second half but for a while it seemed every inbound was extremely difficult. Also, y arrI think we need Kaleb a lot next game and he got barely any run. Not sure how much JTIII trusts Govan at this point, although given he might be out best option at C, he may need to.
DSR was very aggressive tonight (driving)...would like to see him to this where possible against elite competition. He has shot very few free throws save for this game though. '
Agreed on Ike and LJ Peak. As good as some of their skills are, there is a lot they need to improve on to be first round locks (when you should leave school). Dunn even stayed after all. That said, we need them to do what they do well night in night out.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 2, 2015 8:19:53 GMT -5
We didn't shoot well as a team and turned it over too much -- both obvious points -- but I thought our team defense was significantly better (though, of course, it should have been given the opponent).
We may as well all just get used to the fact that there will be any number of ways to be critical of substitution patterns in each and every game. That's the price of having so many permutations.
I have no problem getting DSR that much run, given his struggles so far. Important that he get as many positive game minutes as possible. Otherwise, though, I really don't want to see him playing 36 minutes in a game that was really only in doubt for a couple minutes (at most) in either half. The only other outlier, as others noted, was Paul's time. Hard to know what to think there. But you would think under normal circumstances his minutes would go up a bit and Reggie's would come down a bit.
Otherwise, a game like this just shows the challenge that III has. Yes, Ike played "only" 19, but where do more minutes for him come from (taking into account that Paul's were even lower)? Marcus, after all, only played 15. Even if you assume DSR gets a bit more rest and you go big at other positions, it's not going to amount to much. And Peak is going to (presumably) get 33 mins like he did. My point isn't that Ike shouldn't or won't get more minutes under normal circumstances -- he will -- but that necessarily means that others get less, especially if we assume Paul gets more. The challenge will be the same for Kaleb. The bottom line is (absent foul trouble, clearly poor individual play, or injury), there inevitably will be one or two guys that don't get enough run in every game.
I have no quibble with what he did at the five. If there's no foul trouble, Brad and Jesse will combine to get 35 mins or so per game and Trey will get five. How Brad and Jesse split that time likely depends on how they are playing and matchups. Trey takes the rotational spot of either guy in foul trouble, so he's likely to average more like 8-10 minutes.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Dec 2, 2015 8:31:10 GMT -5
I still don't get why he had all three main guards on the floor together for what seemed like 15 minutes, even though Peak looked a little gimpy.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 2, 2015 9:14:10 GMT -5
Coach wanted to get Campbell minutes and he was rusty. Bobbled the ball and turned it over on a few trips. Better against UMES then Cuse. Glad he got that out of his system. I would have thought White would have gotten a bit more run too. The student section was hideous and I hope that changes after the team reels off a bunch of wins. A crowd like that against a hot Monmouth team will really hurt. Gotta bring it against Cuse.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,385
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Post by drquigley on Dec 2, 2015 10:14:12 GMT -5
Something tells me this team is going to break our hearts. Very talented but very young. Why do Govan and Derrickson look lost and afraid? I think we need to get a little meaner. Jesse Sapp-Jabril Trawick mean. Really curious to see what a sold out home game against a hated rival does to these guys. Just like that hunch that told you that Tre Campbell was in imminent peril with his illness, right? I said in the Tre Campbell post that I'm glad my fears about his health were unfounded. But my concern over Govan and Derrickson's lack of aggression are legit. Both guys need to step up.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Dec 2, 2015 10:14:53 GMT -5
Coach wanted to get Campbell minutes and he was rusty. Bobbled the ball and turned it over on a few trips. Better against UMES then Cuse. Glad he got that out of his system. I would have thought White would have gotten a bit more run too. The student section was hideous and I hope that changes after the team reels off a bunch of wins. A crowd like that against a hot Monmouth team will really hurt. Gotta bring it against Cuse. That was clearly the case, as reflected in Thompson's postgame comments. If you want further proof, go back and watch JTIII's reaction when Tre hit that 3 in from of the Hoyas bench. He did a double fist pump! That may be the most demonstrative I've ever seen JTIII, all the more remarkable given the opponent and tomb-like atmosphere of the VC.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,948
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 2, 2015 10:25:14 GMT -5
We didn't shoot well as a team and turned it over too much -- both obvious points -- but I thought our team defense was significantly better (though, of course, it should have been given the opponent). We may as well all just get used to the fact that there will be any number of ways to be critical of substitution patterns in each and every game. That's the price of having so many permutations. I have no problem getting DSR that much run, given his struggles so far. Important that he get as many positive game minutes as possible. Otherwise, though, I really don't want to see him playing 36 minutes in a game that was really only in doubt for a couple minutes (at most) in either half. The only other outlier, as others noted, was Paul's time. Hard to know what to think there. But you would think under normal circumstances his minutes would go up a bit and Reggie's would come down a bit. Otherwise, a game like this just shows the challenge that III has. Yes, Ike played "only" 19, but where do more minutes for him come from (taking into account that Paul's were even lower)? Marcus, after all, only played 15. Even if you assume DSR gets a bit more rest and you go big at other positions, it's not going to amount to much. And Peak is going to (presumably) get 33 mins like he did. My point isn't that Ike shouldn't or won't get more minutes under normal circumstances -- he will -- but that necessarily means that others get less, especially if we assume Paul gets more. The challenge will be the same for Kaleb. The bottom line is (absent foul trouble, clearly poor individual play, or injury), there inevitably will be one or two guys that don't get enough run in every game. I have no quibble with what he did at the five. If there's no foul trouble, Brad and Jesse will combine to get 35 mins or so per game and Trey will get five. How Brad and Jesse split that time likely depends on how they are playing and matchups. Trey takes the rotational spot of either guy in foul trouble, so he's likely to average more like 8-10 minutes. This isn't as much about "substitution patterns" to me, it's much more about not playing one of your better players.. I can understand the 10 minutes on Saturday but the 6 minutes last night for PW doesn't make any sense unless he's still hurting & if that's the case don't play him at all until he's fully healthy..
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 2, 2015 10:34:40 GMT -5
We didn't shoot well as a team and turned it over too much -- both obvious points -- but I thought our team defense was significantly better (though, of course, it should have been given the opponent). We may as well all just get used to the fact that there will be any number of ways to be critical of substitution patterns in each and every game. That's the price of having so many permutations. I have no problem getting DSR that much run, given his struggles so far. Important that he get as many positive game minutes as possible. Otherwise, though, I really don't want to see him playing 36 minutes in a game that was really only in doubt for a couple minutes (at most) in either half. The only other outlier, as others noted, was Paul's time. Hard to know what to think there. But you would think under normal circumstances his minutes would go up a bit and Reggie's would come down a bit. Otherwise, a game like this just shows the challenge that III has. Yes, Ike played "only" 19, but where do more minutes for him come from (taking into account that Paul's were even lower)? Marcus, after all, only played 15. Even if you assume DSR gets a bit more rest and you go big at other positions, it's not going to amount to much. And Peak is going to (presumably) get 33 mins like he did. My point isn't that Ike shouldn't or won't get more minutes under normal circumstances -- he will -- but that necessarily means that others get less, especially if we assume Paul gets more. The challenge will be the same for Kaleb. The bottom line is (absent foul trouble, clearly poor individual play, or injury), there inevitably will be one or two guys that don't get enough run in every game. I have no quibble with what he did at the five. If there's no foul trouble, Brad and Jesse will combine to get 35 mins or so per game and Trey will get five. How Brad and Jesse split that time likely depends on how they are playing and matchups. Trey takes the rotational spot of either guy in foul trouble, so he's likely to average more like 8-10 minutes. This isn't as much about "substitution patterns" to me, it's much more about not playing one of your better players.. I can understand the 10 minutes on Saturday but the 6 minutes last night for PW doesn't make any sense unless he's still hurting & if that's the case don't play him at all until he's fully healthy.. Keeping him out of the scouting report for Saturday could also me a real thing...
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,358
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Post by calhoya on Dec 2, 2015 10:35:43 GMT -5
My son attended his third Hoya game last night with a couple of other students. He was shocked at the lack of energy in the crowd and indicated he had been to high school games here in SoCal with bigger and more engaged crowds. Too bad for the players.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,669
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Post by seaweed on Dec 2, 2015 10:55:32 GMT -5
This isn't as much about "substitution patterns" to me, it's much more about not playing one of your better players.. I can understand the 10 minutes on Saturday but the 6 minutes last night for PW doesn't make any sense unless he's still hurting & if that's the case don't play him at all until he's fully healthy.. Keeping him out of the scouting report for Saturday could also me a real thing... I like to think that coach plays the mental game at this level. With PW and Ike sitting, 'cuse doesn't get a good look at the two guys who are most likely to break down the zone from the foul line. That's what I like to think...
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 2, 2015 11:01:06 GMT -5
Last comment on crowd, I think this is a main reason we don't get some recruits. If you put together a priority list for a high school kid, Gtown checks many of the boxes. With facilities now off the list of being a negative (or soon to be), our crowd experience is weak. Students are the main driver of a good crowd. I have talked about a curtain which would help but last night was a loser any way you slice it. MD, Kansas, kentucky, Indiana, Duke, UNC, Pitt and many other sub-par programs have + crowd experiences. Gtown's is bad except for three to four big Saturday games a year. This year, Nova, Cuse, maybe Xavier & Butler should all be fine. It is in those other games that you need three thousand students showing up. Just really bad.
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 2, 2015 11:23:19 GMT -5
My son attended his third Hoya game last night with a couple of other students. He was shocked at the lack of energy in the crowd and indicated he had been to high school games here in SoCal with bigger and more engaged crowds. Too bad for the players. Tell him the students are a large part of the atmosphere...you make your own experience.
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Post by grandmahoya on Dec 2, 2015 11:31:35 GMT -5
Coach wanted to get Campbell minutes and he was rusty. Bobbled the ball and turned it over on a few trips. Better against UMES then Cuse. Glad he got that out of his system. I would have thought White would have gotten a bit more run too. The student section was hideous and I hope that changes after the team reels off a bunch of wins. A crowd like that against a hot Monmouth team will really hurt. Gotta bring it against Cuse. Echo sentiments about Monmouth Univ. They're on a roll right now and if we do not get a good home crowd as we hope to get for Syracuse, a loss to them could be disastrous for our season. We can't take Monmouth Univ. lightly. They beat Notre Dame and are already getting votes.
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Post by wrestlemania on Dec 2, 2015 12:12:46 GMT -5
My son attended his third Hoya game last night with a couple of other students. He was shocked at the lack of energy in the crowd and indicated he had been to high school games here in SoCal with bigger and more engaged crowds. Too bad for the players. Tell him the students are a large part of the atmosphere...you make your own experience. My daughter is a student at GU, and from what I've observed it's apparent that the basketball program is suffering from generational shift. We are now 30 years removed from the national championship, nearly 20 years from JTII's retirement, and almost a decade from the last Final Four. And students have many more entertainment options available to them nowadays, sports-related or otherwise. Throw in the inconvenience of the Verizon Center, the recent first round flame-outs and the diminished stature of the Big East, and it becomes no surprise that only a handful of students attended the UMES game. I don't see this trend reversing anytime soon absent another rocket or two to the Final Four, and even then I'm not sure that the uptick would be overwhelming. These are different times.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 2, 2015 12:14:00 GMT -5
We need to move all games to a bird-infested arena in Landover pronto!!!
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 2, 2015 12:46:59 GMT -5
Tell him the students are a large part of the atmosphere...you make your own experience. My daughter is a student at GU, and from what I've observed it's apparent that the basketball program is suffering from generational shift. We are now 30 years removed from the national championship, nearly 20 years from JTII's retirement, and almost a decade from the last Final Four. And students have many more entertainment options available to them nowadays, sports-related or otherwise. Throw in the inconvenience of the Verizon Center, the recent first round flame-outs and the diminished stature of the Big East, and it becomes no surprise that only a handful of students attended the UMES game. I don't see this trend reversing anytime soon absent another rocket or two to the Final Four, and even then I'm not sure that the uptick would be overwhelming. These are different times. Thats what people have been saying for ages. Part of the reason why Hoya Blue/Stonewalls were formed this century. All I'm saying is if you're going to the game (especially as a student), you're there to have fun and make noise, not dwell on the 30+ year olds ready for bed at 7 on a Tuesday night after a long day (one of which I'm quickly becoming). The atmosphere in College basketball isn't starting with the alumni, it's with the students. *This is random rambling, not necessarily focused at last night or your children at GU.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 2, 2015 13:24:52 GMT -5
My son attended his third Hoya game last night with a couple of other students. He was shocked at the lack of energy in the crowd and indicated he had been to high school games here in SoCal with bigger and more engaged crowds. Too bad for the players. These games against weak opponents really should probably be at McDonough. A good standard would be a sub-300 quality type opponent in November or December automatically merits McDonough. I realize McDonough isn't great either, but we could certainly get more students to attend these types of games at McDonough, the building would not look empty, and it might just cause some enthusiasm on campus that will spill over to the Verizon Center. I realize the odds of it happening are low, but once the practice facility is finished, I think the highest sports priority should be finishing the 2000-era proposed renovation of McDonough that would have raised its capacity to 5,500 and modernized it. The reality is, we don't need the Verizon Center for the weak OOC home games.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,358
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Post by calhoya on Dec 2, 2015 13:27:34 GMT -5
My daughter is a student at GU, and from what I've observed it's apparent that the basketball program is suffering from generational shift. We are now 30 years removed from the national championship, nearly 20 years from JTII's retirement, and almost a decade from the last Final Four. And students have many more entertainment options available to them nowadays, sports-related or otherwise. Throw in the inconvenience of the Verizon Center, the recent first round flame-outs and the diminished stature of the Big East, and it becomes no surprise that only a handful of students attended the UMES game. I don't see this trend reversing anytime soon absent another rocket or two to the Final Four, and even then I'm not sure that the uptick would be overwhelming. These are different times. Thats what people have been saying for ages. Part of the reason why Hoya Blue/Stonewalls were formed this century. All I'm saying is if you're going to the game (especially as a student), you're there to have fun and make noise, not dwell on the 30+ year olds ready for bed at 7 on a Tuesday night after a long day (one of which I'm quickly becoming). The atmosphere in College basketball isn't starting with the alumni, it's with the students. *This is random rambling, not necessarily focused at last night or your children at GU. Completely understood your point.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Dec 2, 2015 14:18:06 GMT -5
IMHO, I don't believe this team starts to really gel/click until Paul White is placed into the starting line-up and is playing significant minutes (30+).
As good as Marcus is as a freshman, I don't think he has the ability/confidence yet to move with the ball, create, and initiate offense. I think he can be a dynamic weapon off the bench as a spot-up shooter and clean-up rebounder down low.
Paul adds a dimension that opens up shots for cutters, spot-up shooters, and for players posting on the block.
This move seems very obvious to me, and hoping White's minutes have been limited because of injury/fitness recovery. I really hope he starts on Saturday against the Cuse and is ready to go. Both White and Copeland can do major damage at the free throw line against the Cuse's 2-3 zone.
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