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Post by yunghoya on Dec 16, 2015 14:23:08 GMT -5
The only thing I will say that kills our team is the offense. I cannot stand the princeton offense. When you are down double digits, passing the ball around for 20 seconds along the arc is not a way to get back in a game. You need to be aggressive. Our team only knows one offense and at some points it's sad to watch. JT3 can coach and recruit but please god change the offense. It's a new era. This isn't the 70's and 80's. We will never win national championships with this kind of offense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2015 14:23:38 GMT -5
LOL the 2012-13 team was a massive overachievement. Team was mostly just Otto, with markel as his robin. Look at the rest of that roster. And we were easily a top 8 team in the country. Arguably best defense in the country. NCAA 2 seed. Go ahead and point to the FGCU loss, but don't tell me jtiii didn't prepare that team to the point where any blue blood program would have been shaking in their boots if they had to play us. The FGCU loss is my point. You cannot say that team overachieved and still accept the loss to FGCU, especially when you have the #3 pick on your team. What was his statline for that game??? That team besides Otto was very ordinary and Otto unfortunately for us was very ordinary that day
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 16, 2015 14:28:34 GMT -5
As was Monroe against Ohio, which was inexcusable. Monroe should have had thirty or more against those punks.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 16, 2015 14:49:13 GMT -5
To quote the ad, "We Are Georgetown!!!" Sadly, when it comes to basketball, that means we are a middling former power that routinely craps the bed against mid-majors. I still root for the Hoyas and always will, but expectations are lowered. It honestly seems like we're becoming a mid-major ourselves. Just another team in the mix on a year to year basis in a conference run by Villanova. It's sad to watch. We're 10 games into the season and seriously arguing whether our worst loss is Radford or Monmouth. That alone tells you all you need to know about the state of this program. Very few teams have no down years from time to time. And, the season isn't over yet. We easily could make the NCAA tournament, get to the Sweet 16, and suddenly half the people on this board will say it's the best season we've had since 2007 (even if it isn't). We have been to the NCAA tournament most years and we have generally be competitive and finished at the top of our conference. I think by definition, most mid-majors don't even get to the tournament most years. This is just not true.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 16, 2015 14:50:40 GMT -5
The only thing I will say that kills our team is the offense. I cannot stand the princeton offense. When you are down double digits, passing the ball around for 20 seconds along the arc is not a way to get back in a game. You need to be aggressive. Our team only knows one offense and at some points it's sad to watch. JT3 can coach and recruit but please god change the offense. It's a new era. This isn't the 70's and 80's. We will never win national championships with this kind of offense. The offense was not good last night, but the defense was far worse. JT3 uses Princeton principles, but we do not and have not run a pure Princeton offense for several years. I am not saying tweaks aren't necessary, but generally this year offense has not been the problem, it has been defense.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 16, 2015 14:58:33 GMT -5
LOL the 2012-13 team was a massive overachievement. Team was mostly just Otto, with markel as his robin. Look at the rest of that roster. And we were easily a top 8 team in the country. Arguably best defense in the country. NCAA 2 seed. Go ahead and point to the FGCU loss, but don't tell me jtiii didn't prepare that team to the point where any blue blood program would have been shaking in their boots if they had to play us. The FGCU loss is my point. You cannot say that team overachieved and still accept the loss to FGCU, especially when you have the #3 pick on your team. It's simple to say the team both overachieved and still "accept" the loss to FGCU. It goes like this (I don't have access to historical Pomeroy data, so the rankings are RPI, flawed as that is): In 2012-2013, the Hoyas weren't as good as their NCAA seeding indicated. They got very hot at a key time (the end of the regular season and BET), winning 13 of their last 15, including several games against very good teams. Prior to that, though, they were 1-3 against the only four RPI top 50 teams they played (and that doesn't count the no-contest against Florida that they were behind to open the year, albeit closely). The reality is that they weren't quite as good as they played in that last key stretch, but the committee always rewards teams for big runs at the end of the year, so they got a higher seed than their overall body of work probably merited. In hindsight, perhaps the loss in the BET to Cuse was a sign that the Hoyas were reverting back to the mean. As it was, they were matched against FGCU, whose RPI was 73. A loss to a team with a ranking in that range shouldn't be surprising to a team that had been 1-3 against the top 50 before its hot run and only 2-1 against the top 100. Heck, the team overall (even including its hot stretch) was only 4-2 against teams rated between 50 and 100. Thus, losing to a team right in the middle of that range shouldn't really be considered all that surprising. You may not agree with that narrative, but I'd submit it's certainly reasonable.
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Post by hibbertfor3 on Dec 16, 2015 15:33:14 GMT -5
Can't we just start a thread titled "JT3 Coaching Discussion" or something like that. For all the obvious reasons there is NO way JT3 is on the hot seat so why keep coming back to this thread? Lock it up and let's get on track My biggest accomplishment since becoming an adult
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Dec 16, 2015 15:38:24 GMT -5
To quote the ad, "We Are Georgetown!!!" Sadly, when it comes to basketball, that means we are a middling former power that routinely craps the bed against mid-majors. I still root for the Hoyas and always will, but expectations are lowered. It honestly seems like we're becoming a mid-major ourselves. Just another team in the mix on a year to year basis in a conference run by Villanova. It's sad to watch. We're 10 games into the season and seriously arguing whether our worst loss is Radford or Monmouth. That alone tells you all you need to know about the state of this program. I can't argue with your last sentence. However, your statement about being in a conference run by Villanova? Lame. Quite an over-reaction.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 16, 2015 15:43:17 GMT -5
Can't we just start a thread titled "JT3 Coaching Discussion" or something like that. For all the obvious reasons there is NO way JT3 is on the hot seat so why keep coming back to this thread? Lock it up and let's get on track My biggest accomplishment since becoming an adult Congrats to the PC Police...would't want anyone to feel offended that after losing to Radford and Monmouth at home, on top of continual early round NCAA Tournament exists since 2007, that anybody would be on the hot seat. How dare anybody suggest such an outrageous idea! Where's my safe space?
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 16, 2015 16:07:43 GMT -5
A few things stick out to me.
We all know the offense needs to change no matter who does it. The idea of having your big men at the top of the key when you really dont run a PNR offense is ridiculous. We have have way too many guys in general standing around the perimeter which is why our rebounding stinks but I would settle for just keeping the big guy down low at this point.
The defense usually only atrocious when we play small quick teams. We have big slow guys so the tiny guys just blow past them and the defense crumbles just trying to help. This is more of a philosophy/recruiting thing than a coaching thing.
The one thing I haven't seen discussed is why does coach continue to schedule these games? I know you have to schedule a bunch of games but you know pretty much who is on the opponents roster and should avoid these teams at all costs. It seems like he may be trying to exercise the demons but really his is just adding to them and hurt the resume at the same time. Its clear what "lesser" teams beat us but yet he doesn't seem to change things. Playing them is not helping with beating them clearly.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 16, 2015 16:57:12 GMT -5
The FGCU loss is my point. You cannot say that team overachieved and still accept the loss to FGCU, especially when you have the #3 pick on your team. It's simple to say the team both overachieved and still "accept" the loss to FGCU. It goes like this (I don't have access to historical Pomeroy data, so the rankings are RPI, flawed as that is): In 2012-2013, the Hoyas weren't as good as their NCAA seeding indicated. They got very hot at a key time (the end of the regular season and BET), winning 13 of their last 15, including several games against very good teams. Prior to that, though, they were 1-3 against the only four RPI top 50 teams they played (and that doesn't count the no-contest against Florida that they were behind to open the year, albeit closely). The reality is that they weren't quite as good as they played in that last key stretch, but the committee always rewards teams for big runs at the end of the year, so they got a higher seed than their overall body of work probably merited. In hindsight, perhaps the loss in the BET to Cuse was a sign that the Hoyas were reverting back to the mean. As it was, they were matched against FGCU, whose RPI was 73. A loss to a team with a ranking in that range shouldn't be surprising to a team that had been 1-3 against the top 50 before its hot run and only 2-1 against the top 100. Heck, the team overall (even including its hot stretch) was only 4-2 against teams rated between 50 and 100. Thus, losing to a team right in the middle of that range shouldn't really be considered all that surprising. You may not agree with that narrative, but I'd submit it's certainly reasonable. The 2012-13 Hoyas were a strong defensive team that got great when Otto went insane offensively. For a long stretch, he was shooting about 70% from mid-range (estimated number, but he was so automatic).
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Post by yunghoya on Dec 16, 2015 18:02:19 GMT -5
And what's up with these terrible passes in the offense? The laziest passes I've ever seen turn right into two points for our opponent. If its not there don't pass it! It looks like the players have one option to pass it to and if its not there then they have no idea what to do, even when they still have their dribble. The slow pace/ pass oriented offense also seems to have a huge affect on our players handling ability, especially when the other team is in a press. Not good not good at all. We need the players to be able to create for themselves. And Bradley Hayes... stop over committing on defense to protect the arc!! You're not fast enough to beat players back down low.
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Dec 16, 2015 20:38:46 GMT -5
9 years later does this article still ring true? Reward Thompson With a New Contract and a RaiseExcerpts: Every year Georgetown is required to file for public record a tax document known as an IRS Form 990. This document lists, among other things, the University’s five highest-paid employees other than officers, directors and trustees. For the tax year beginning July 1, 2004 and ending June 30, 2005 ” the most recent data available ” Thompson III ranked fifth on this list, with a base salary of about $390,000 and benefits and deferred compensation totaling about $7,000.
Given Georgetown’s general financial struggles, it may be unfair to suggest that Thompson receive a contract similar to someone like Pitino, at least at this juncture. But in truth, a contract extension is about more than just dollar amounts. It’s something that Thompson deserves as a token of the University’s appreciation for all of his hard work. It would also set a good precedent within our athletic department that if you work hard and have success, you’ll be rewarded.
If a reward isn’t enough motivation, imagine what Georgetown basketball might be like if Thompson decided not to continue coaching. If the notion is disconcerting to you, it probably should be, considering the way the program went into a tailspin after the first Coach Thompson retired in 1999. But one of these days, Wildcat fans are going to grow weary of Tubby Smith’s sub-par recruiting, and the University of Kentucky is going to be looking for someone who is a strong recruiter with a proven track record as a head coach. Thompson would fit the bill.
And maybe one day in the future the Maloof brothers will cut ties with head coach Eric Musselman (who was recently arrested for DUI) and offer Coach Thompson the opportunity to be reunited with his mentor Pete Carril as head coach of the Sacramento Kings.
While neither of these scenarios present imminent threats, it’s just a matter of time before some wealthy program or organization comes and throws the bank at JT III. It would be nice if we had already shown him our financial commitment and compensated him for his efforts.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Dec 16, 2015 21:33:15 GMT -5
Gotta love it when a nine-year old opinion column in The Hoya is used as a resource for discussion in our manic-depressive review of JT3's coaching prowess.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 16, 2015 22:24:30 GMT -5
And what's up with these terrible passes in the offense? The laziest passes I've ever seen turn right into two points for our opponent. If its not there don't pass it! It looks like the players have one option to pass it to and if its not there then they have no idea what to do, even when they still have their dribble. The slow pace/ pass oriented offense also seems to have a huge affect on our players handling ability, especially when the other team is in a press. Not good not good at all. We need the players to be able to create for themselves. And Bradley Hayes... stop over committing on defense to protect the arc!! You're not fast enough to beat players back down low. The offense and a defensive press against us are mutually exclusive. If anything, a pass-heavy offense should be helpful in learning the skills to beat a press. And the closest we have to guys that can create for themselves are Peak and DSR, in that order. Peak, however, hasn't made great decisions as of yet. I liked the drive and kick to Copeland towards the end of the Monmouth game (he could have done it again on one of the next possessions too but decided to take it all the way which was a horrible shot to have taken at any point in the game much less when there was a glimmer of making it a game) and I hope it's a sign of things to come. LJ does make some circus shots because he's athletically gifted but he takes far too many of those and, seemingly, he makes up his mind to take them well in advance of taking them. He's got a little Chris Wright in him that way. That's OK though. He's a sophomore and it means he's being aggressive and a little selfish and that's something, in moderation, that will serve him and his team well. If LJ improves his decision making, he could be the best option for creating shots or stopping a scoring drought and putting that kind of pressure on the defense. DSR always has the stop and go, spin, fade away that has bailed us out at times and he's really good at that. And he's good at making sure he's drawing contact but, most of the time, he's not getting to the rack. We need at least one guy as a threat to do that. I think LJ has the skills to do that and I'm hoping that he will.
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Just Cos
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Eat 'em up Hoyas
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Post by Just Cos on Dec 16, 2015 23:12:16 GMT -5
We had open looks that we missed. And for the love of basketball we don't run the Princeton offense. Issue is defense and rebounding. Someone remove my the wall so I stop banging my head.
Happy to talk defense and rebounding (and JTIII's contribution to that problem) but blaming the offense? WTF
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Bay99
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Post by Bay99 on Dec 16, 2015 23:35:05 GMT -5
We had open looks that we missed. And for the love of basketball we don't run the Princeton offense. Issue is defense and rebounding. Someone remove my the wall so I stop banging my head. Happy to talk defense and rebounding (and JTIII's contribution to that problem) but blaming the offense? WTF Agree it shouldn't be called the Princeton offense, but why is it blame-free? We run the same stuff regardless of situation or opponent. We rarely make any in-game adjustments with visible impact when we're trailing. (See also: Monmouth, 2nd half.) When we get in bad spots, we seem to trust "experience" (a term used lightly for guys like Hayes and Cameron) over any other factor, whether the (fabled but rarely rewarded under JTIII) hot hand (Govan) or just trying something different when nothing else is working, like a lineup without Hayes or Govan on the floor when our size "advantage" is clearly not influencing the score. Again, I completely agree that "the Princeton offense is killing us" narrative is silly. But we must be one of the easiest teams in the country to scout and game-plan for at the moment.
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wnyhoya
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Post by wnyhoya on Dec 17, 2015 0:01:12 GMT -5
We had open looks that we missed. And for the love of basketball we don't run the Princeton offense. Issue is defense and rebounding. Someone remove my the wall so I stop banging my head. Happy to talk defense and rebounding (and JTIII's contribution to that problem) but blaming the offense? WTF Agree it shouldn't be called the Princeton offense, but why is it blame-free? We run the same stuff regardless of situation or opponent. We rarely make any in-game adjustments with visible impact when we're trailing. (See also: Monmouth, 2nd half.) When we get in bad spots, we seem to trust "experience" (a term used lightly for guys like Hayes and Cameron) over any other factor, whether the (fabled but rarely rewarded under JTIII) hot hand (Govan) or just trying something different when nothing else is working, like a lineup without Hayes or Govan on the floor when our size "advantage" is clearly not influencing the score. Again, I completely agree that "the Princeton offense is killing us" narrative is silly. But we must be one of the easiest teams in the country to scout and game-plan for at the moment. I agree. I like our offense as a base but the issue is we very, very rarely run any additional sets exclusive from the base offense. There is very little variation and adjustment from opponent to opponent which is just ridiculous. Just like how you should change your defense based on an opponent's strengths and weaknesses (i.e. good shooters-run them off the 3 point line, not great shooters but love to drive-sag off and go under screens, etc.) you have to do the same offensively to make the defense uncomfortable. Defenses which like to get up and pressure you must spread out and attack off the bounce with the idea of finishing at the rim or kicking when help comes. When defenses sag and pack the line, you have to run your stuff and really execute your offenses and other sets. The problem is twofold. First, when we go up against aggressive defenses we still try to execute our offense and we end up looking like we did last night: have our 5 guy pushed way outside the high post which makes it harder to execute properly save for an occasional backdoor cut. Instead of running the base offense in this instance every time we need to attack off the dribble and just play basketball. Part of the reason we may not do this is how many guys do we have that can consistently get by their man off the bounce? Probably a recruiting issue. Second, when we play teams who pack the line defensively, like Xavier last year (look how that went), we don't have any other sets outside the base offense, which doesn't really work against that defense. Our offense is designed to have the middle open for backdoor cuts and the occasional drive off a hand-off from the big. When teams pack the line the middle is usually pretty clogged preventing these things. To beat it you either have to have a multitude of different, creative sets to get the defense moving or have shooters at all 5 positions to spread the floor and open up the middle a bit more. We have neither of these things. When our offense has had success this year it's mostly bc BJ has had a great game inside or we've shot the ball well from 3. When both of those aren't working, like against Monmouth, our offense struggles. Just my two cents
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Just Cos
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Eat 'em up Hoyas
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Post by Just Cos on Dec 17, 2015 1:29:18 GMT -5
But how many looks did we get from the corner that didn't fall? How come we can exploit the zone against Cuse but fail to against other opponents? I think confidence in running the offense is a bigger issue. But that's behind rebounding and defense.
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Dec 17, 2015 1:57:53 GMT -5
9 years later does this article still ring true? Reward Thompson With a New Contract and a RaiseExcerpts: Every year Georgetown is required to file for public record a tax document known as an IRS Form 990. This document lists, among other things, the University’s five highest-paid employees other than officers, directors and trustees. For the tax year beginning July 1, 2004 and ending June 30, 2005 ” the most recent data available ” Thompson III ranked fifth on this list, with a base salary of about $390,000 and benefits and deferred compensation totaling about $7,000.
Given Georgetown’s general financial struggles, it may be unfair to suggest that Thompson receive a contract similar to someone like Pitino, at least at this juncture. But in truth, a contract extension is about more than just dollar amounts. It’s something that Thompson deserves as a token of the University’s appreciation for all of his hard work. It would also set a good precedent within our athletic department that if you work hard and have success, you’ll be rewarded.
If a reward isn’t enough motivation, imagine what Georgetown basketball might be like if Thompson decided not to continue coaching. If the notion is disconcerting to you, it probably should be, considering the way the program went into a tailspin after the first Coach Thompson retired in 1999. But one of these days, Wildcat fans are going to grow weary of Tubby Smith’s sub-par recruiting, and the University of Kentucky is going to be looking for someone who is a strong recruiter with a proven track record as a head coach. Thompson would fit the bill.
And maybe one day in the future the Maloof brothers will cut ties with head coach Eric Musselman (who was recently arrested for DUI) and offer Coach Thompson the opportunity to be reunited with his mentor Pete Carril as head coach of the Sacramento Kings.
While neither of these scenarios present imminent threats, it’s just a matter of time before some wealthy program or organization comes and throws the bank at JT III. It would be nice if we had already shown him our financial commitment and compensated him for his efforts.If we underachieve again this year, that is not surviving first weekend of the NCAA tournament, i think JT3 does deserve some paycheck cut. He was awarded for his "hard work" after the FF season, which has been almost a decade, and has underachieved every year since then. If this bball program is a Thompson family business and he has the lifetime security for it, at least reduce his salary that is comparable to the expectation of a small jesuit school that some people now believe that we are mid-majors. Heck, mid-major program's coach does not earn top 10 college coach salary. his paycheck reduction will either give him motivation to "work hard" again to achieve the level of 2007 FF season, or leave this program to find another coaching gig at a similar level. Can you guys think of any programs that are at Gtown caliber that will hire JT3 right away?
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