DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 22, 2005 8:34:07 GMT -5
In the years before he was typecast as the angry pilot of a wayward ship, Craig Esherick got ahead of the University and publicly talked about the “R” word—renovation—to the Washington Post. Today marks the fifth year anniversary that the topic of on-campus basketball was formally discussed in the press.
As discussed in the April 22, 2000 Post (the link is no longer active at the Post site), the project was the stuff that dreams were made of—a modern, fan-friendly facility within the walls of old McDonough Gym, a 6,000 to 7,000 seat arena (depending on the source) sunken into the foundations that could not only serve as a less expensive option to MCI Center for non-conference games, but a long awaited and much needed convocation center that could serve to house academic, cultural, and artistic events on the campus. For two generations of students which had never seen a meaningful game on its own campus, the opportunity to reconnect the sport to its campus roots was a slam-dunk. At $22 million, it was an idea whose time had come.
To be fair, Georgetown wasn’t going to build this overnight. Athletic Director Joe Lang told the Post (and later The HOYA) as much, that the unnamed Convocation Center couldn’t be completed until the Multi-Sport Facility (then scheduled to go online circa 2003) was finished, moving offices out of McDonough. He told the press that it would be at least five years before the Convocation Center could get started.
Well, it’s five years later. And what’s discouraging is not just that nothing’s happened (the Multi-Sport is only now starting a three phase construction effort) but that the idea does not seem to be part of the public discourse anymore, at least beyond this message board. I’ve talked with members of the Hoop Club who seemed resigned to the fact that Georgetown will never play on-campus basketball again in our lifetimes, and that we will pay rent at MCI Center indefinitely.
What a huge, huge mistake that would be.
Facilities aren’t just about fans, they’re about commitment. Prospective players see it. Prospective coaches too. Georgetown caught a break with Coach Thompson because he has some degree of heritage with Georgetown and the spartan conditions of McDonough are at least tolerable to him. Many years from now, will the next coach be as forgiving, or even interested? Will coaches and recruits take a pass on a school that simply doesn’t show any interest in providing facilities and offices that won’t even meet standards for its Big East peers?
As for what happens the day if Georgetown can't pay the MCI rent anymore, or when the program's deficits are judged prohibitive by the University, that's another issue. But if men's basketball support as a whole is a defined priority in the upcoming capital campaign, people will respond. But if Georgetown never asks, or otherwise chooses not to do so, Georgetown will be steering one of its most valuable and visible assets right off the front page and into a uncertain and diminished future.
It's no less important in 2005 than it was five years ago, and perhaps even more so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2005 8:39:37 GMT -5
Again - i'm 100% with you DFW. I don't share your concern about recruits necessarily (I think playing in an NBA arena is still a bit of a draw), but I do with everything else.
And once again - what do you propose WE, the loyal Hoya fans of the HoyaTalk Board - do about it? Write letters insisting the arena be part of the new capital campaign? Start up our own fundraising efforts? Sneak into McD's basement and sabotage the foundation FORCING work to be done on the ol' bag? What?!
Also, what is the third phase of the MSF project? I know Phase 1 is the new field and scoreboard and the east bleachers, and I thought Phase 2 was the west bleachers and press box which included the lockers and offices in the underbelly, as well as the fencing and other aesthetic touches needed. So what's the third?
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hoya01
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by hoya01 on Apr 22, 2005 8:43:35 GMT -5
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 22, 2005 10:46:23 GMT -5
So, what are we going to do about it? What's your proposal, DFW? You have the ears of over 1,000 slightly psychotic Hoya fans...
This post comes up, what, once every two weeks? At one point someone discussed setting up a trust or something, and the powers that be shot that down pretty quick.
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hoyahoyasaxa
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Sead Dizdarezvic doesn't write term papers. The words rearrange themselves out of fear.
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Post by hoyahoyasaxa on Apr 22, 2005 11:16:10 GMT -5
So, what are we going to do about it? What's your proposal, DFW? You have the ears of over 1,000 slightly psychotic Hoya fans... Yup, and once every two weeks someone asks DFW what he thinks we should do, and he never responds.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 22, 2005 11:18:26 GMT -5
Hunger strike, anyone?
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nodak89
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Roy Roy Royyyyy!!!
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Post by nodak89 on Apr 22, 2005 11:28:06 GMT -5
Without violating any privacy rules, is there an address to send an email to the OAUR for us hinterlanders? Here's what I found for a US mail address on georgetown.edu Office of Alumni & University Relations Box 571253 5th floor Washington, DC 20057-1253
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 22, 2005 12:07:13 GMT -5
Yup, and once every two weeks someone asks DFW what he thinks we should do, and he never responds. Not respond? I've been on this board eight years! My opinions have been noted frequently in the past. (See www.hoyabasketball.com/thoughts/arena02.htm for background.) However, my opinion is not important, it's the University opinion which counts. All I'm saying is that if basketball is not a campaign priority it will have long term effects on the viability of the program going forward.It doesn't take a "storm the castle" approach, only to keep the communications going with GU that this is important to a cross-section of the student and alumni community. If we settle for less, than that's exactly what we'll get.
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Apr 22, 2005 12:07:51 GMT -5
Without violating any privacy rules, is there an address to send an email to the OAUR for us hinterlanders? The only website search mention I found of them would make it appear their email address is giving@georgetown.edu which may say something about their priorities for alumni relations.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 22, 2005 12:10:07 GMT -5
Not respond? I've been on this board eight years! My opinions have been noted frequently in the past. (See www.hoyabasketball.com/thoughts/arena02.htm for background.) However, my opinion is not important, it's the University opinion which counts. All I'm saying is that if basketball is not a campaign priority it will have long term effects on the viability of the program going forward.It doesn't take a "storm the castle" approach, only to keep the communications going with GU that this is important to a cross-section of the student and alumni community. If we settle for less, than that's exactly what we'll get. I think it is time to storm the castle. Whether it be incessant emails or giving only to a center, an off-line escrow account or whatever, they obviously aren't listening to this nice discourse. My next gift will be earmarked specifically for the John Thompson, Jr. Convocation Center. If they don't wanna fundraise for it, my money can sit in a bank. And with that defiant gesture, the entire GU fundraising community s Editeds. Sigh. Oh, to win the lottery.
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SoCalHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
No es bueno
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Post by SoCalHoya on Apr 22, 2005 12:12:49 GMT -5
Need we start another petition?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 22, 2005 12:15:12 GMT -5
Not respond? I've been on this board eight years! My opinions have been noted frequently in the past. (See www.hoyabasketball.com/thoughts/arena02.htm for background.) However, my opinion is not important, it's the University opinion which counts. All I'm saying is that if basketball is not a campaign priority it will have long term effects on the viability of the program going forward.It doesn't take a "storm the castle" approach, only to keep the communications going with GU that this is important to a cross-section of the student and alumni community. If we settle for less, than that's exactly what we'll get. I think the issue is that you haven't commented too much, if at all, on what the fans, students, alumni could do to bring this about, given how the University isn't pushing the thing forward. Obviously, the 1789 Initiative and other things are good ideas, but they are ideas for the University that they aren't willing to take up. I am at a loss myself for how to approach the communications issue. I sent e-mails last year as part of YB's effort to no fewer than 4 people at the University. I heard back from exactly one person, who was involved in the HHC. Needless to say, the HHC folks are probably not the folks who need to be persuaded. I ultimately never wrote back to him, although I had drafted a lengthy treatise about my pet peeves in GU athletics, Sports Information Control among them. As for the other recipients of the mass e-mails, not everyone in contemporary society responds to their e-mails, but it would have taken about an hour to come up with a generic response to the original e-mail that would address concerns and welcome a dialogue. Needless to say, my not receiving anything from them was not appreciated.
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Post by michiganhoya on Apr 22, 2005 12:22:43 GMT -5
ummm ... I suggest that you guys watch the NBA playoff series between the Wizards and the Bulls. The MCI Center will look pretty damn good. We need to attract more fans. No one was b*tching and moaning when GU was a top five team all those years at the Crapital Center. Firing Esh and hiring JT3 was better than building an arena.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 22, 2005 12:46:27 GMT -5
Firing Esh and hiring JT3 was better than building an arena. I agree, Mich. However, there are a couple of issues with MCI. 1) MCI's rent is substantial and severely impacts our program profitability. Since the majority of funds for an on campus facility would be donated, the difference between on-campus maintenance costs and MCI's rent can go directly to paying our coaches to stay and recruiting budgets. 2) We do not practice at MCI, watch film, lift weights. Recruiting is harder when recruits realize that they could either practice in Texas' $40M practice facility with lazy boys and mahogany finished lockers or our middle-school caliber gym. 3) Though big games would likely still be played at MCI, I suspect that having a 7,000+ person arena on campus would give us at least one more significant win a year. Had we had those in Mike's soph and junior years, we'd have made the tourney. Some folks do overstate the benefits of an on-campus arena. But it would still be a significant help to the program.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 22, 2005 12:49:52 GMT -5
michigan, you sort of miss the point here. I love the hire of 3 as well, but he left PU because GU is big-time ball and he wanted to coach at the highest level. Think 5 years down the road, when the New Big East splits. GU will no longer be in a superconference, playing in an arena where we would need to draw 9,000 paid customers TO BREAK EVEN. Such is the rent situation.
It is unreasonable to think that we can draw that many for every game in ever year. Even during the best Thompson years, our average was around 14k. The down years averaged 8k, and many of those totals were comped.
Do the math- MCI is very expensive and will get more so because they know we have no other viable option. If we have a viable option, we can probably get more on-campus games- better atmosphere and home court advantage and cheaper costs- and also drive our rent down for MCI.
This increases our chances of KEEPING JT3 or other high-level coaches.
Gotta think down the road here!
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Apr 22, 2005 13:04:15 GMT -5
ummm ... I suggest that you guys watch the NBA playoff series between the Wizards and the Bulls. The MCI Center will look pretty damn good. We need to attract more fans. No one was b*tching and moaning when GU was a top five team all those years at the Crapital Center. Firing Esh and hiring JT3 was better than building an arena. You're just ignoring all the other crucial factors with a post like this. We didnt have to make choice between a new arena and new coach, the new coach with the new on campus arena is what we need. I'm sick of nothing ever being done about this, we need to come up with a real strategy to bring this up with the university and make them think about it. We're not accomplishing anything with all our talk and no action. Let's come up with some real ideas here. What do we have to do? Maybe next year Hoya Blue can go door to door and gather donations for an arena. Even if we only get like 50 cents from people being able to say that like 4,000 students donated to an on campus arena would be a pretty good thing to show how much interest and support there is for this. I mean, we have to do something! This is crazy, ignoring the arena and acting like there is nothing wrong here is just complete ignorance on the part of the university.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 22, 2005 13:05:42 GMT -5
Not a bad idea. We could have someone rattle a cup outside the student section before home games.
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Post by michiganhoya on Apr 22, 2005 13:18:43 GMT -5
I'm sorry that I mentioned JT3 in my earlier post.
My main point is: I like the MCI Center. It is convenient. It is near a Metro. It is near a lot of bars and places to eat. It has nice amenities. If GU won more often, more tickets would be sold.
I'm not sure where the 9,000 break even number came from, but I'll accept that for a moment.
In 2003, according to the NCAA (http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/2003_basketball_attend.pdf) 49 teams averaged more than 9,000 in attendance. The 50th team? Georgetown w/8,796. I don't accept the fact that a winning GU program can't average more than 9,000 a game. Look at the Wizards!
Besides a weight and training facility, what more do recruits need that they currently do not get at GU? Plus, look at the players, they do get bigger and stronger as their careers progress. For the program that produced Jahidi White, Dikembe, Alonzo and PE I, I don't buy that we don't have a winning weight training program.
Like many of the people on this board, when I went to GU I got on a bus that took somewhere between 45 minutes and an hour an half to get to the Crapital Center. That was not fun. I don't have any sympathy for whiney students who now complain about be driven into the heart of the Penn Quarter in DC to go to the MCI Center.
Players who are not attending GU primarily for the education (which should be a draw in and of itself) want to play at the next level. The best way to get to the next level is to play well (of course) but to also play in a lot of games that are televised. They need (and should want) exposure, not some fancy on campus tiny gym. They should want to play in front of 19,000 fans.
And again, for non-students who live in the metropolitan DC area, the MCI Center is a great place to go. You can get dinner, you can take the Metro, and their is ample (but expensive) parking.
The griping about facilities on this board always seems to me to be some sort of gigantic excuse to cover up all of the current and past shortcomings in terms of coaching, players, incessant transfers, etc.
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Joe Hoya
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You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
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Post by Joe Hoya on Apr 22, 2005 13:24:03 GMT -5
Not a bad idea. We could have someone rattle a cup outside the student section before home games. Most of the students would decide to "get you on the way back", so you'd have to do it afterwards as well.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 22, 2005 13:25:47 GMT -5
Michigan, I think you make some valid points that did not necessarily come across in your initial post. I think the question comes down to whether you would rather have a new on-campus facility or not. Leave MCI out of the picture for a moment.
The fact remains that McD is falling apart and is inadequate for the broader needs of GU athletics, to say nothing of the basketball program.
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