SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 22, 2005 13:26:40 GMT -5
Yes, look at the Wizards! And the Redskins! And the Caps! And the Nats! And the Ravens and Orioles and Terps and...
There's a lot of competition in DC. We're never going to average 20k like Louisville or Syracuse.
More importantly, there's a huge stratification in that average. There's a lot of games where we draw 6k and a decent number in the teens.
You can maximize revenue by picking which games are in MCI.
Would a better investment of the money be a annuity that pays the coach's salary or something? Maybe. But an on-campus location creates student interest, has practice facilities, can be used for concerts/ convocation/ graduation and is easier to fundraise for.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GUHoya07 on Apr 22, 2005 13:35:07 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with excuses, its about giving our program the things it needs to succeed in the future.
I agree with everyone who says that students shouldnt be complaining about the trip to MCI, but on the other hand its a pain in the ass having to hear it from you guys. The fact of the matter is that unless you are a die-hard fan you ARE going to complain about the bus or metro ride over there. It usually ends up being a 25-30 minute (longer in bad traffic) bus ride each way with the traffic and city driving and when you add in the fact that there are usually not enough buses coming back from MCI and people have to take metro back and then GUTS or walk across Key Bridge it becomes a serious issue for anyone that isnt a die-hard. The fact is that the average GU student will complain about the bus ride and its time for you to stop with the walking to school up hill both ways barefoot in the snow type complaints about students these days.
You have to factor in at least an extra hour now for games. On campus they would only take up 2 hours and at MCI they take up at least 3. Now, when you are trying to get a borderline Georgetown student to go to a game that extra hour is an enormous factor.
And no one is saying that MCI isnt a great facility, and all the restaurants blah blah blah. However, it is not a good college arena, its pretty terrible for college games.
If you can figure out a way to get about 4,000 more alums to every game and get them off their asses cheering and clapping then MCI would be pretty good, but still NOTHING compared to a real on campus arena. MCI or any other off campus arena will hurt us severely down the road if we dont start planning for that on campus arena.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Apr 22, 2005 13:50:37 GMT -5
Need we start another petition? Thats funny. I wonder where all those guys (over 3000, right?) who signed the petition are these days,eh? I mean, I haven't heard a peep from all, ehem, 3000+ of them. Maybe its because petitioning for something constructive like rasing money for an on-campus arena doesn't make the newspaper or television news.  |
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Apr 22, 2005 13:51:28 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with excuses, its about giving our program the things it needs to succeed in the future. I agree with everyone who says that students shouldnt be complaining about the trip to MCI, but on the other hand its a pain in the ass having to hear it from you guys. The fact of the matter is that unless you are a die-hard fan you ARE going to complain about the bus or metro ride over there. It usually ends up being a 25-30 minute (longer in bad traffic) bus ride each way with the traffic and city driving and when you add in the fact that there are usually not enough buses coming back from MCI and people have to take metro back and then GUTS or walk across Key Bridge it becomes a serious issue for anyone that isnt a die-hard. The fact is that the average GU student will complain about the bus ride and its time for you to stop with the walking to school up hill both ways barefoot in the snow type complaints about students these days. You have to factor in at least an extra hour now for games. On campus they would only take up 2 hours and at MCI they take up at least 3. Now, when you are trying to get a borderline Georgetown student to go to a game that extra hour is an enormous factor. And no one is saying that MCI isnt a great facility, and all the restaurants blah blah blah. However, it is not a good college arena, its pretty terrible for college games. If you can figure out a way to get about 4,000 more alums to every game and get them off their asses cheering and clapping then MCI would be pretty good, but still NOTHING compared to a real on campus arena. MCI or any other off campus arena will hurt us severely down the road if we dont start planning for that on campus arena. Well, then, the solution of course would be to work really hard from now until next basketball season starts (and all the way through the next basketball season if you have to) to make it so that more GU students ARE die-hard basketball fans. For whom going to a game is SUCH an AWESOME experience that the bus ride business doesn't bother them. But you knew I was going to say that, 007. ;D The way I see it, the issue of making the MCI an intimidating home arena and building our own little House of Intimidation next to the McD tennis courts are on separate tracks. Neither one is easy, but you can work towards both. 007's right, as is everyone else who argues that NOTHING will compare to an on-campus arena. But I disagree that the MCI Center has to be "pretty terrible" for college basketball. I don't believe, as I said somewhere else earlier this week, that the BUILDING makes the team/atmosphere. The FANS do!! I've been to games at the MCI Center with great atmospheres. It is more than possible if everybody--from students to alumni to kids of alumni to friends of the university and those guys scalping tickets next to the Metro station--put in the effort to come on out and make MCI an intimidating place. We're all frustrated about the lack of "something we can do" about the on-campus arena. I can only hope that "something" will come in time. But let's not forget that other track we've got going here. We shouldn't be neglecting some obvious things we CAN be doing to make our current home a little more "home-like" in the meantime. |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 22, 2005 13:52:47 GMT -5
Thats funny. I wonder were all those guys who signed the petition are these days,eh? I mean, I haven't heard a peep from all, ehem, 3000+ of them. Maybe its because petitioning for something constructive like rasing money for an on-campus arena doesn't make the newspaper or television news. I don't think anyone signed the petition to be on the news. |
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SoCalHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
No es bueno
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Post by SoCalHoya on Apr 22, 2005 13:55:01 GMT -5
And as DFW has pointed out many times, it wouldn't just be a basketball court, it would serve as a convocation center and support many other academic needs of the University.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 22, 2005 13:55:49 GMT -5
Thats funny. I wonder where all those guys (over 3000, right?) who signed the petition are these days,eh? I mean, I haven't heard a peep from all, ehem, 3000+ of them. Maybe its because petitioning for something constructive like rasing money for an on-campus arena doesn't make the newspaper or television news. The petition and separate letter-writing campaign both made the print media, just so you know. Why? It was a strong demonstration of dissatisfaction with the current state of affairs. You've heard a peep from me and quite a few others on this board. The folks you haven't heard a peep from are in Healy 2 and other GU offices. That's the sad part that you fail to address. |
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GUHoya07 on Apr 22, 2005 14:02:39 GMT -5
Thats funny. I wonder where all those guys (over 3000, right?) who signed the petition are these days,eh? I mean, I haven't heard a peep from all, ehem, 3000+ of them. Maybe its because petitioning for something constructive like rasing money for an on-campus arena doesn't make the newspaper or television news. What's your problem? I mean, what do you expect those people to be doing, walking around campus with nametags on donating money and picketing for an on campus arena? Ok, you expect them to join the Hoop Club and put their money where their mouth is, I agree with that. However, the Hoop Club isn't good at promoting itself and the university hampers its efforts. People aren't gonna join the Hoop Club when they dont even know about it and when the club doesn't do much to promote itself and get new members. A lot of work remains to be done, I just don't see a reason to insult all the people that signed that petition. I see it as a positive that all those people are potential targets for Hoop Club membership and involvement in the program, now lets get them involved. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 22, 2005 14:05:40 GMT -5
What's your problem? I mean, what do you expect those people to be doing, walking around campus with nametags on donating money and picketing for an on campus arena? Ok, you expect them to join the Hoop Club and put their money where their mouth is, I agree with that. However, the Hoop Club isn't good at promoting itself and the university hampers its efforts. People aren't gonna join the Hoop Club when they dont even know about it and when the club doesn't do much to promote itself and get new members. A lot of work remains to be done, I just don't see a reason to insult all the people that signed that petition. I see it as a positive that all those people are potential targets for Hoop Club membership and involvement in the program, now lets get them involved. Amen and Hallelujah! I think the key question that GU needs to decide is whether they want to invite fan participation or whether they want to run the program off the fumes of Hoya Paranoia. The University currently does a mediocre job of promoting and publicizing the program, to say nothing of attracting the participation of alumni and fans in the HHC and other such endeavors. |
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Apr 22, 2005 14:07:40 GMT -5
mighigan, in addition to SF's and 2007's points, I have a few others:
- don't forget, that 8750 number for our attendance in 2003 was buoyed by 2 games: Syracuse (where almost all the fans were Orange) and Duke, were 60% of the fans were Dukies. Those 2 came close to sell-outs (tho they were not sellouts). You know how many sellouts we've had since MCI opened, much less in the last 10 years? One. GU-Yukon in 1996 at the now-closed USAIR arena. During the Ivo-Othella-Jerome years. Fact is, even in the best of times we really don't draw too well.
Further, a ton of our attendance is buoyed by freebies. In 2003, that was a whopping 2-3k a game. So when you lower the 8750 number by, say, 2000 (low estimate) you get 6750. Then lower it further when you take out the two anomylous near-sellouts, you get about 4k paying customers. And that adds up to huge losses coming from our "home" court, which is our virtual only source of revenue. And if you go back even to our best years in the 80s, we have NEVER drawn as well as we would need to to make MCI work, long term. And bottom line is, this aint the 80s.
Now, also keep in mind that, aside from sopping up large losses from MCI- which we have ever since it opened- they have us over a barrel on rent negotiations.
And this does not even begin to cover the expenses the program runs- trainers, equipment, travel, etc that can't be covered by home arena revenue because there is virtually none.
MCI is a nice PRO facility. Better than the Crap Centre. As a student, I also bussed out to the crap centre. Believe it or not, it takes only slightly less time to get to MCI from G'town because of traffic- yes, downtown traffic is THAT bad.
Sure, downtown has lots of restaurants etc, which as an alum I take part of when I go to games. But I don't go to games for the restraurants outside the game- no one does. You go to a college ball game for the college ball. And the fact is that MCI is simply too big for our needs.
Did you see the NIT game against CSF? THAT's that a college ball environment is like. See a game played by Duke at Cameron? That is a bit bigger than we'd be talking about in an oncampus arena. TV goes there, it's a great atmosphere. TV does not come to 1/2-full pro arenas.
Bottom line: do you want GU hoops to be pushed under for the realities of modern college athletics so you can go to a few bars outside MCI, or do you want to see Hoya hoops set for years to come no matter who the coach is, and with increased ability to attract/retain coaches and talent? In the bottom of your heart, I suspect what the answer is.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Apr 22, 2005 14:10:08 GMT -5
way, I should note here that HHC membership is up quite a bit this year- a lot of people have begun to put their money where their mouth is. This is a trend I suspect might continue, so don't be too harsh on the petitioners. A lot of them were students for whom game attendance is a big deal too.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 22, 2005 14:13:05 GMT -5
YB, this is slightly off-topic, but it relates to your post above. Why shouldn't the HHC create a "junior" or student membership. Let's say $15 gets you in the pipeline for ticket preference, a student section t-shirt, newsletter privileges, and access to the open practice.
Say that's offered in conjunction with an $85 season ticket package... A junior membership would bring it up to $100, a nice round number, and you'd be able to have 2 student section t-shirts, which is HUGE for the 2 home game weeks when laundry becomes a problem.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by YB on Apr 22, 2005 14:37:34 GMT -5
this idea has been brought up and is in discussion.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 22, 2005 15:01:09 GMT -5
The point about "where are the petitioners?" has been made before and I just want to see if anyone has any direct information on one of the questions.
The issue with the Hoop Club is that University policies prohibit any "interest group" from soliciting support from a broad-section of alumni unless an alum has identified themselves as having at least minimal interest in that area. That's why the out-of-towners are in a bind. But....with the petition, my understanding was that this counted.
My understanding was that everyone (excepting current students...since current University rules prohibit direct fundraising from them--not a good rule IMO) who signed the petition received a solicitation this year from the Hoop Club. Is there anyone out there who signed the petition and hadn't previously been a donor that can confirm or deny this?
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Apr 22, 2005 15:01:31 GMT -5
YB, this is slightly off-topic, but it relates to your post above. Why shouldn't the HHC create a "junior" or student membership. Let's say $15 gets you in the pipeline for ticket preference, a student section t-shirt, newsletter privileges, and access to the open practice. Say that's offered in conjunction with an $85 season ticket package... A junior membership would bring it up to $100, a nice round number, and you'd be able to have 2 student section t-shirts, which is HUGE for the 2 home game weeks when laundry becomes a problem. I'm not seeing the real benefit here for my hypothetical extra 15 bucks. Ticket preference? I mean, it's not like we sell the student season tickets out EVER. And the student section is open seating, so it's not like you can get a special reserved seat. Extra Student section t-shirt? I mean, aren't there two schools of thought here? One, you wash clothes once a week, so unless wash day is Sunday or Saturday night, you should be fine for a two-game week. Two, your the kind of college student who washes their clothes every once-in-a-barely-ever, so wearing the shirt twice in a week shouldn't bother you. Honestly, if you only wear that shirt TO GAMES, doing that twice in a week is not a big deal. Newsletter privileges? Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't I read some of those online before? Access to the open practice? Okay, i guess that's a cool thing. But student season tickets are WAY too expensive as it is. 85 bucks is quite a bit--especially since a). as recently as my freshman year they were 60 bucks b). given our "better" non-conference scheduling recently, we're playing fewer home games per year. It'd be a tough sell to get that "average" student who complains about the bus ride to MCI to pony up an extra 15 bucks unless you really offered them something nice. Of course, now getting those die-hard young recent graduates like me into the Hoop Club at a low-low entry level membership fee is something worth working on. Me personally, since I'm still on the "old kid still buying student tickets on the DL/working towards Young Alumni section" track, HHC ticket guarantees don't do it for me yet. I'd like some assurance I'd be getting...I don't know...a chance for real INPUT into how "things are done" if I may use a deliberately vague term. That'd be my thing anyhow. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 22, 2005 15:11:05 GMT -5
The point about "where are the petitioners?" has been made before and I just want to see if anyone has any direct information on one of the questions. The issue with the Hoop Club is that University policies prohibit any "interest group" from soliciting support from a broad-section of alumni unless an alum has identified themselves as having at least minimal interest in that area. That's why the out-of-towners are in a bind. But....with the petition, my understanding was that this counted. My understanding was that everyone (excepting current students...since current University rules prohibit direct fundraising from them--not a good rule IMO) who signed the petition received a solicitation this year from the Hoop Club. Is there anyone out there who signed the petition and hadn't previously been a donor that can confirm or deny this? I am a current student, but I have yet to hear of anyone who signed the petition and received a solicitation. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 22, 2005 15:13:41 GMT -5
I'm not seeing the real benefit here for my hypothetical extra 15 bucks. Ticket preference? I mean, it's not like we sell the student season tickets out EVER. And the student section is open seating, so it's not like you can get a special reserved seat. Extra Student section t-shirt? I mean, aren't there two schools of thought here? One, you wash clothes once a week, so unless wash day is Sunday or Saturday night, you should be fine for a two-game week. Two, your the kind of college student who washes their clothes every once-in-a-barely-ever, so wearing the shirt twice in a week shouldn't bother you. Honestly, if you only wear that shirt TO GAMES, doing that twice in a week is not a big deal. Newsletter privileges? Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't I read some of those online before? Access to the open practice? Okay, i guess that's a cool thing. But student season tickets are WAY too expensive as it is. 85 bucks is quite a bit--especially since a). as recently as my freshman year they were 60 bucks b). given our "better" non-conference scheduling recently, we're playing fewer home games per year. It'd be a tough sell to get that "average" student who complains about the bus ride to MCI to pony up an extra 15 bucks unless you really offered them something nice. Of course, now getting those die-hard young recent graduates like me into the Hoop Club at a low-low entry level membership fee is something worth working on. Me personally, since I'm still on the "old kid still buying student tickets on the DL/working towards Young Alumni section" track, HHC ticket guarantees don't do it for me yet. I'd like some assurance I'd be getting...I don't know...a chance for real INPUT into how "things are done" if I may use a deliberately vague term. That'd be my thing anyhow. 1. By ticket preference, I mean for post-graduation general admission tickets. You get better seats if you are a long-standing HHC member, so this has some benefit. 2. Newsletter was offered to students once, as a teaser. It fell off after the initial letter. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2005 16:06:54 GMT -5
As I said in my original response to DFW's post -
WHAT THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO? Anyone have any brilliant ideas? I personally don't know enough about who the check writers truly are in this instance, but if anyone knows I'd gladly help write a draft of a letter we could all send to Person X indicating how badly we believe a Convocation Center should be in the new capital campaign.
I have no idea how to create such a thing, but if someone needs help making an on-line petition page, I'm down.
If private fundraising is the way to go, and someone's setting up some kind of legal entity to do so, I offer my burgeoning legal skills to do so.
The point is, enough talk. Seriously. This thread should end NOW unless poeple start posting ideas on what to do. No more WORHTLESS debate about on campus versus off campus. This is getting pathetic. Let's move on from the WHY to the WHAT we should do.
The rest of this dialogue is getting horribly tired. No more "we have to invest in the future or else." No more "off campus isn't so bad." No more "you're crazy, we need it to get recruits." We've heard it all. Its old. Enough.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 22, 2005 16:10:12 GMT -5
I think the petition idea could work well, but perhaps this time around, the signatories should be required to supply contact information, which would not be listed on the petition itself or at least hidden for privacy reasons. Perhaps this could be integrated into DFW's 1789 Initiative such that signatories make pledges of different monetary value.
No monetary collection involved, just a demonstration of interest and how the money really is there.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 22, 2005 16:17:45 GMT -5
I agree with Jersey:
Start a petition. Along with a signature, have people also give:
1) Contact info (for followup and for HHC purposes)
2) Amount they would be willing to donate. (I understand a pledge isn't the same as the money, but it's still better than just a signature)
Also, some kind of letter writing campaign would be good, I think, though I have no idea who to send it to. Perhaps the new person in charge of fundraising?
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