tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Sept 19, 2015 18:01:16 GMT -5
Most years of late, we've still been very guard-centric teams. Usually, around 3 of the top 4 scorers lead in scoring and assists. There are exceptions but it's been fairly consistent. That's especially true if you consider a guy like LJ or AFree to be more a part of a 3 guard lineup than a true 3.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,864
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Post by EtomicB on Sept 19, 2015 22:03:32 GMT -5
I don't see what's wrong with this philosophy at all, kids who are 6-7 & up are much more skilled nowadays so having a system that emphasizes this can't be viewed as a negative imo.. So what if the staff isn't able to land what folks on the board consider top(NBA) talent at the guard spot, they can still get kids who can compliment the top talent they're getting at the forward spots.. I say play to your strengths.. I don't think you take the ball out of the guards' hands unless you have forwards and centers who can truly create. Otherwise too many times you have frontcourt players at the top of the key waiting for teammates to get open for backdoor passes or something like that. That's too much stagnation, that's too wasteful of the shotclock. This doesn't mean you don't give your frontcourt players opportunities if they do have the ability to create, but I have seen no evidence yet that the offense III runs becomes more efficient by handing the ball over to the guys in the frontcourt. If you have Scottie Pippen or Grant Hill types who could legitimately play the role of a point guard then by all means let the offense run through them. If you have a big that is just as comfortable on the perimeter as he is posting up on the block and can pass extremely well no matter where he is on the court then maybe he too is an ideal player to have the offense ran through. I'm not sure III has had such a player with the possible exception of Monroe. I'm not advocating eliminating entirely the Geens, Hibberts and Porters of the world from creating time to time. What I'm arguing is to not have that as the designated play to execute most times the Hoyas have the ball. It shouldn't be predetermined. In a perfect world maybe a coach doesn't take the ball out of it's guards hands but the reality is JT3 isn't operating in a perfect world so to me he should make the best of what he has to work with.. The team has looked terrible at times offensively lately but that was due to a lack of talent not so much the flaws in his system, we've seen how good the team can be when he has the right pieces in place.. There's no way you can get me to believe that the 05-06, 06-07 & 07-08 teams weren't efficient and fun teams to watch play.. There wasn't an NBA type guard on any of those teams.. In Copeland, White & Govan the team has 3 top 50 front-court players add 2 other top 100 kids in Derrickson & Agua.. This proves where JT3's strength's are in recruiting, now the task should be finding guards who can support them.. If they're bonafide NBA prospects that's cool by me but that's not my highest priority, fit is.. Imagine Jr./Sr. year Markel Starks or even Ashati Cook playing with this team? Expectations would be thru the roof, we know that neither were/are NBA talents.. Get me kids who can play at this level & fit the program & roster 1st & foremost..
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,423
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Post by MCIGuy on Sept 20, 2015 6:13:39 GMT -5
In a perfect world maybe a coach doesn't take the ball out of it's guards hands but the reality is JT3 isn't operating in a perfect world so to me he should make the best of what he has to work with.. Perfect world? The one thing college basketball has in great supply is quality guard play. I’m not only referring to guards who make it to the NBA, I’m talking about the countless guards that can run a team, execute a fastbreak, give the ball to the right teammate at the right time, be the head of the defense, press effectively when needed. You act as if I’m asking III to discover a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. Instead what I’m asking of him is a bit more realistic : put the ball more in the hands of his guards. And if his guards aren’t good enough to take on such a responsibility, something that like 95% of guards at other programs can do in their sleep, then perhaps it is time to recruit better guards. IMO last season’s team had more raw talent than most of III’s previous Gtown teams. It faltered on offense more than it should have. That team with Otto, Henry Sims, Whittington, Hollis Thompson, Jason Clarke and Starks had a lot of talent as well but way too often struggled to put points on the board. The team led by senior Austin Freeman and Chris Wright had a bunch of highly regarded recruits on its roster but nonetheless could be downright brutal on offense any given game. The faltering of the offense for III’s teams, particularly during the more high profile games, has been an issue for quite awhile. The three teams that I mentioned as examples were all good enough to win enough games to make the NCAA tournament but they never delivered any major accomplishments nor could any of them make it past the first weekend of the NCAA tourney. Despite all of that HT fans appear to have some revisionist idealistic memory of what those days. So much so that I can recall people just a couple of seasons back suggesting that III needed to find another Henry Sims type of player to run his offense through. Really? I love Henry but did the Hoyas win anything of note when he himself was doing that his senior season? You gotta go back to eight to ten years for your examples? Obama didn’t even have gray hair then. That’s how long ago it was. Coaches on top of their games tend to not have to wait such a long stretch before getting their teams back to the high standards they set for their programs. This isn’t even open for debate. But I will concur that the teams you mentioned were indeed more efficient on offense. Sometimes though it hardly seem to matter. There were games in which those Hoyas would shoot well above 60% in a half and still barely scored 35 points over the course of those twenty minutes. Which of course kept the opponent in the game because it took the Hoyas too long to pull away. Were those teams fun to watch? Depends on the person. III has lost out on the vast majority of the recruits that he pursued the hardest. I guess those players didn’t get as much a thrill after watching those milk-the-clock teams as others did. Of course since that time the Hoyas have become less efficient on offense despite having dissimilar teams over the past six or seven years. When the Hoyas, despite having high seeds, were sent packing prematurely from the tourney during those seasons much of the blame was attributed to the defense instead of being attributed to an offense that had become unreliable (too many instances of low shooting percentages ) when the stakes got higher. And those Hoyas ended up losing to teams that for the most part didn’t have NBA guards either, just guards who were given the freedom to play to their strengths. Such a strength that he still mostly swing and misses with the frontcourt players he pursues the hardest. He should be able to recruit elite players of all positions, including guards. If you have championship aspirations as he does you can’t get by with only acquiring guards who are average. That would be squandering the more elite frontcourt talent he brings in. That being sad I think III has recruited better quality guards than you are giving him credit for. Freeman. Wright. Clarke. Starks. DSR. Peak. Those are all at least top 100 guys. The problem is III has as of yet not been able to get any one of those guys to the NBA. So he has been either unlucky in terms of the talent level those guys end up having or he does not put them in a position to enhance their skills and put up the numbers that would draw the interest of NBA scouts . Or maybe it’s a bit of both. Expectations should be through the roof with this bunch and the guards they have now. But if the team doesn’t play to its strength (using its depth and length in the forward position to be aggressive on both ends of the court and wear out opponents) then it wouldn’t matter if we had Sleepy Floyd on this squad. III would simply take it out of Sleepy’s hands and have Govan running the offense from the three point line.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,351
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Post by calhoya on Sept 20, 2015 7:08:28 GMT -5
I believe that the problem with this team's offense the past couple of seasons has as much to do with the incomplete post players as with the lack of complete guards. Yes, the guards struggle with their outside shot, with even DSR being a streaky shooter. However, the offense that this team runs, even with the modifications made by the coaches in recent years, requires a scoring threat in the post. Players like Lubick and Hopkins did not provide that threat and Josh Smith, for a variety of reasons, including conditioning and inability to stay on the floor for any length of time, did not provide that threat on a consistent basis. Even Henry Sims only represented a scoring threat his final year. In the 4-5 positions the last few years, the Hoyas have only truly presented a threat when they have gone small with Porter and Copeland (he has height but still not big enough to be a natural 4). Finally, I agree with MCI that they guard recruits have been much better than many perceive.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 20, 2015 12:13:22 GMT -5
I believe that the problem with this team's offense the past couple of seasons has as much to do with the incomplete post players as with the lack of complete guards. Yes, the guards struggle with their outside shot, with even DSR being a streaky shooter. However, the offense that this team runs, even with the modifications made by the coaches in recent years, requires a scoring threat in the post. Players like Lubick and Hopkins did not provide that threat and Josh Smith, for a variety of reasons, including conditioning and inability to stay on the floor for any length of time, did not provide that threat on a consistent basis. Even Henry Sims only represented a scoring threat his final year. In the 4-5 positions the last few years, the Hoyas have only truly presented a threat when they have gone small with Porter and Copeland (he has height but still not big enough to be a natural 4). Finally, I agree with MCI that they guard recruits have been much better than many perceive. I agree with most of this. It's true that JT3 has not recruited elite NBA-level guards, but it is true that he has recruited very good guards and nearly all of them have improved significantly while on the Hoyas. That's why I am excited to see Campbell develop - he is probably the best freshman guard we have had recently (perhaps with the exception of DSR), which means if he improves he could be really, really, good. Maybe not an NBA prospect, but he could be a great college player. In my mind, recruiting the top level wings/big men is more important than guards (though obviously, in an ideal world, you want both). There are far more quality guards than front court players. It's also amazing what some March success could do. If we made the Final Four again this year, my guess is suddenly we would be more appealing to the 2017 guards.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
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Post by lichoya68 on Sept 20, 2015 14:59:48 GMT -5
Sad too bad for him and his family HOYAS jy3 and pops and the GUYS vs creanie and indiana IT IS ABOUT MUCH MORE THAN JUST THE BBALL best of luck to him hoya FAMILY yup thats it go hoyas the best is yet to come.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
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Post by lichoya68 on Sept 20, 2015 15:00:13 GMT -5
PS if hes six four im like seven foot just saying
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Sept 21, 2015 9:23:43 GMT -5
stay in touch. Crean could get bounced with a shaky year or more campus issues.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 3, 2015 11:12:04 GMT -5
Bumping from my prior post. Crean won't be around. Maybe the kid just loves Indiana but a different coach and system will be coming to Bloomington next year. Not sure if we would still want him, but if so, stay in touch.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 3, 2015 11:21:00 GMT -5
I hope he is not too into Diet Coke...
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Dec 4, 2015 0:00:12 GMT -5
Plus Curtis had family in Indianapolis. Key word had. Pep Hamilton is no longer the offensive coordinator of the Colts.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Mar 6, 2016 17:59:26 GMT -5
stay in touch. Crean could get bounced with a shaky year or more campus issues. Do you plan on bumping this again as Indiana destroys Maryland? Bumping from my prior post. Crean won't be around. Maybe the kid just loves Indiana but a different coach and system will be coming to Bloomington next year. Not sure if we would still want him, but if so, stay in touch.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,392
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 6, 2016 20:23:25 GMT -5
Bumping from my prior post. Crean won't be around. Maybe the kid just loves Indiana but a different coach and system will be coming to Bloomington next year. Not sure if we would still want him, but if so, stay in touch. Curious, Columbia. Indiana is ranked 11/12, 9 in KenPom, and won the B1G regular season. Why do you feel Indiana and Crean will part ways?
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Post by daymondmyles on Mar 7, 2016 7:43:36 GMT -5
Columbia said that back in the early part of the season not recently.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 7, 2016 10:07:41 GMT -5
Exactly! They were ready to throw Crean under the bus after early losses to UNLV, Wake and getting demolished by DUke. Surprisingly when MCD all-american went out their play improved as they actually play defense now.
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Post by daymondmyles on Mar 7, 2016 13:15:43 GMT -5
Here's to hoping for the same effect when DSR leaves next year.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,864
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 3, 2017 17:37:23 GMT -5
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FrazierFanatic
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,553
Member is Online
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 3, 2017 17:43:18 GMT -5
We were in it to the end with this guy. Different staff, but hopefully we get involved again.
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Dec 3, 2017 17:46:08 GMT -5
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,864
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 3, 2017 18:23:53 GMT -5
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