EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,905
|
Post by EtomicB on Mar 31, 2015 15:39:15 GMT -5
In one scenario you're discussing a lack of ballhandling while returning a two year starter and All-BE player at PG and in this current scenario our new starters don't even have backups. I was never discussing a lack of ball handling, I was discussing the lack of depth in the back court for G'town.. The lack of depth was there even with DSR on board and it could have possibly reared its ugly head at anytime.. unfortunately(for G'town) that time is now.. Predicting whether DSR was going to turn pro doesn't matter at all..
|
|
Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,303
|
Post by Cambridge on Mar 31, 2015 15:39:25 GMT -5
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:41:24 GMT -5
The first part seems unrealistic, and the second part off base. You think he would've signed with an agent so quickly if nobody believed in him. Most of the reason there hasn't been draft chatter about him is because no one expected him to declare early, but that's not the whole reason. Call me crazy, but I see someone who put up 17ppg as a sophomore having enough talent to at least catch an eye or two. I'll concede that there's a less than 50% chance that his draft stock would have improved in a material way, but I still don't think it was impossible. As to the second, I'm sure there ARE people saying he's good enough to be drafted, etc., but I simply believe they're wrong! If he's aware of the fact that he isn't going to get drafted, but still thinks this is the right move, then he may be making a mistake (or maybe not) but it isn't because he has an outsized opinion of himself. Oh, I just meant the part of expecting his percentages to necessatily jump. It would be just as likely that he shoot 29% from three coming back. I mean, players are more in control of their fates that you may think. Sure he's not going to play his way into the lottery, but it's not exactly like his draft prospects are baseless. And to suggest that he has an agent that is just generally misinformed is silly to me.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:42:49 GMT -5
In one scenario you're discussing a lack of ballhandling while returning a two year starter and All-BE player at PG and in this current scenario our new starters don't even have backups. I was never discussing a lack of ball handling, I was discussing the lack of depth in the back court for G'town.. The lack of depth was there even with DSR on board and it could have possibly reared its ugly head at anytime.. unfortunately(for G'town) that time is now.. Predicting whether DSR was going to turn pro doesn't matter at all.. Agree to disagree, you seem to be missing my point.
|
|
seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,664
|
Post by seaweed on Mar 31, 2015 15:47:07 GMT -5
3) I know we like to see guys get their degrees, but it really is only a piece of paper for many of them. They'll be career players overseas, some in countries that you've never heard of. They'll come back home and do something related to basketball. And if they decide they want to go into the working world, not having a degree is not going to hold them back. No Georgetown Alum is going to turn down DSR because he didn't take a second theology course in his senior year, or write a final sociology paper on race and gender relations in early 20th century Japan.[/quote] Speak for yourself.
|
|
Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
|
Post by Elvado on Mar 31, 2015 15:48:12 GMT -5
Yea I like that. Not nearly as quick as a young Jameer though and that will hurt him. A thicker build is the end of the comparison between DSR and Jameer. I love the Hoyas but DSR is nowhere near as good as Jameer was in college, nor will his game translate as well to pro ball. We are talking about a National Player of the Year in Nelson.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,905
|
Post by EtomicB on Mar 31, 2015 15:49:09 GMT -5
I was never discussing a lack of ball handling, I was discussing the lack of depth in the back court for G'town.. The lack of depth was there even with DSR on board and it could have possibly reared its ugly head at anytime.. unfortunately(for G'town) that time is now.. Predicting whether DSR was going to turn pro doesn't matter at all.. Agree to disagree, you seem to be missing my point. Your point was that no one had any idea that DSR was gonna turn pro, therefore saying the staff should have been prepared is hindsight.. I say the staff should prepare for the unexpected especially when they have open slots available.. I'm good with agreeing to disagree..
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,753
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 31, 2015 15:50:39 GMT -5
This is all a long way of saying that if we followed your blueprint, we wouldn't be an NCAA Tourney qualifier on a consistent basis because we wouldn't have the talent to get there. Maybe that's OK with you, but I think it's unrealistic to expect we can have it both ways in this environment. I know there are some exceptions in terms of programs, but not many, and not consistently. Heck, Duke (like Georgetown) didn't have an early entrant for a long-time and K was adamant about not recruiting them. And then he realized he couldn't compete without doing it, so he did. Wait, I have a blueprint? No, Georgetown has a blueprint. It's no secret, and no bait-and-switch. If you, as a recruit, are not interested in earning a degree, don't take the offer. If you do, give it your full commitment.
|
|
Hoyaholic
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 748
|
Post by Hoyaholic on Mar 31, 2015 15:57:41 GMT -5
No, Georgetown has a blueprint. It's no secret, and no bait-and-switch. If you, as a recruit, are not interested in earning a degree, don't take the offer. If you do, give it your full commitment. So in your eyes DSR broke some solemn oath he made to Georgetown? OK, sure.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,753
|
Post by blueandgray on Mar 31, 2015 15:58:01 GMT -5
I can't blame DSR for wanting to start his professional career a year early....even if the kid scored 20 a game, he still doesn't pleay in the NBA. I just wish he would have given the staff the heads up ahead of time. Everyone seriously thought he was coming back and now we are left in a precarious position. It's no ones fault but ours, it just a tough position to be in.
|
|
|
Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:59:05 GMT -5
This is all a long way of saying that if we followed your blueprint, we wouldn't be an NCAA Tourney qualifier on a consistent basis because we wouldn't have the talent to get there. Maybe that's OK with you, but I think it's unrealistic to expect we can have it both ways in this environment. I know there are some exceptions in terms of programs, but not many, and not consistently. Heck, Duke (like Georgetown) didn't have an early entrant for a long-time and K was adamant about not recruiting them. And then he realized he couldn't compete without doing it, so he did. Wait, I have a blueprint? No, Georgetown has a blueprint. It's no secret, and no bait-and-switch. If you, as a recruit, are not interested in earning a degree, don't take the offer. If you do, give it your full commitment. It's clearly not Georgetown's blueprint, or else we wouldn't have taken Greg Monroe. We wouldn't have tried like heck to recruit Nerlens Noel (among others). So, I think that's simply not true. More broadly, if we said to a recruit the following, we would never be good enough to meet anyone's expectations on this board: "Son, I really want you at Georgetown. But I only want you to come here if you commit to me right now that you intend to get your degree on time so that you play four years of basketball, and I'm going to hold you to that commitment even if you've developed as much as you're going to develop and you can make significant money playing basketball." You may not like it, and that's perfectly fine, but I don't see how you can fully reconcile what I know are your high aspirations for success with the reality of today's era.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:59:13 GMT -5
Agree to disagree, you seem to be missing my point. Your point was that no one had any idea that DSR was gonna turn pro, therefore saying the staff should have been prepared is hindsight.. I say the staff should prepare for the unexpected especially when they have open slots available.. I'm good with agreeing to disagree.. I just meant people coming back and saying "I told you so" like DSR leaving was a reasonable part in the equation of the discussion being had about guard depth. Before it was more of a concern (considering we just went through a runner up BE year with equal or lesser ball handling than we would've had with DSR coming back next year) and now it's absolutely a certainty that we don't have depth in the backcourt. .
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2015 16:00:37 GMT -5
Yea I like that. Not nearly as quick as a young Jameer though and that will hurt him. A thicker build is the end of the comparison between DSR and Jameer. I love the Hoyas but DSR is nowhere near as good as Jameer was in college, nor will his game translate as well to pro ball. We are talking about a National Player of the Year in Nelson. So you're thinking like a Brandon Jennings comparison?
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2015 16:01:49 GMT -5
This is all a long way of saying that if we followed your blueprint, we wouldn't be an NCAA Tourney qualifier on a consistent basis because we wouldn't have the talent to get there. Maybe that's OK with you, but I think it's unrealistic to expect we can have it both ways in this environment. I know there are some exceptions in terms of programs, but not many, and not consistently. Heck, Duke (like Georgetown) didn't have an early entrant for a long-time and K was adamant about not recruiting them. And then he realized he couldn't compete without doing it, so he did. Wait, I have a blueprint? No, Georgetown has a blueprint. It's no secret, and no bait-and-switch. If you, as a recruit, are not interested in earning a degree, don't take the offer. If you do, give it your full commitment. You're mistaken, the offer isn't for a degree. It's to play salary-free for a year in the hope that you'll string along four healthy ones, while simultaneously tending to the same responsibilities every other student does...
|
|
nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
|
Post by nychoya3 on Mar 31, 2015 16:02:15 GMT -5
Wise words from someone that gets it: Uh, Jeff Green left early. And we would have been the favorites for the national championship his senior season had he stayed. I think it's great that he came back and got his degree, and DSR has the opportunity to do that as well. At least have the courage of your convictions and say Jeff didn't hold up his end of the bargain too rather than saying Jeff gets a pass because he got paid more money right away.
|
|
|
Post by puppydog100 on Mar 31, 2015 16:02:36 GMT -5
I would not be surprised it another Hoya player announces he is transferring. Stay tuned.
Be very careful with posts that are purely speculative. They have a habit of disappearing without warning.
|
|
hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,816
|
Post by hoyazeke on Mar 31, 2015 16:02:47 GMT -5
This is all a long way of saying that if we followed your blueprint, we wouldn't be an NCAA Tourney qualifier on a consistent basis because we wouldn't have the talent to get there. Maybe that's OK with you, but I think it's unrealistic to expect we can have it both ways in this environment. I know there are some exceptions in terms of programs, but not many, and not consistently. Heck, Duke (like Georgetown) didn't have an early entrant for a long-time and K was adamant about not recruiting them. And then he realized he couldn't compete without doing it, so he did. Wait, I have a blueprint? No, Georgetown has a blueprint. It's no secret, and no bait-and-switch. If you, as a recruit, are not interested in earning a degree, don't take the offer. If you do, give it your full commitment. "You young whipper snappers get off my lawn." :mad::mad::mad:
|
|
|
Post by tullamore2 on Mar 31, 2015 16:03:38 GMT -5
This is all a long way of saying that if we followed your blueprint, we wouldn't be an NCAA Tourney qualifier on a consistent basis because we wouldn't have the talent to get there. Maybe that's OK with you, but I think it's unrealistic to expect we can have it both ways in this environment. I know there are some exceptions in terms of programs, but not many, and not consistently. Heck, Duke (like Georgetown) didn't have an early entrant for a long-time and K was adamant about not recruiting them. And then he realized he couldn't compete without doing it, so he did. Wait, I have a blueprint? No, Georgetown has a blueprint. It's no secret, and no bait-and-switch. If you, as a recruit, are not interested in earning a degree, don't take the offer. If you do, give it your full commitment. You are wrong sir. Georgetown & JT3 don't have any "blueprint". Did Georgetown tell Greg Monroe the "blueprint" that they expected him to stay 4 years when they were recruiting him? Did Georgetown expect the #1 recruit in high school Nerlens Noel to stay 4 years if he chose Georgetown? You need a reality check.........this isn't the 1950's.
|
|
Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
|
Post by Elvado on Mar 31, 2015 16:04:13 GMT -5
A thicker build is the end of the comparison between DSR and Jameer. I love the Hoyas but DSR is nowhere near as good as Jameer was in college, nor will his game translate as well to pro ball. We are talking about a National Player of the Year in Nelson. So you're thinking like a Brandon Jennings comparison? No. What I am saying is it is unfair to DSR and an insult to Nelson to compare them.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2015 16:07:03 GMT -5
So you're thinking like a Brandon Jennings comparison? No. What I am saying is it is unfair to DSR and an insult to Nelson to compare them. Then throw out a better comparison? If there isn't a better one then what do you expect people to say? At least they're trying. They can have similarities to their games without being similarly talented players....you act like Jameer would've crawled out of bed and averaged 17 alongside a senior Markel as a soph....
|
|