hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 31, 2015 15:25:41 GMT -5
No doubt? Why? He's making a stupid decision. Why assume he will wise up and get his degree? Stupid decision according to you... I always think Andre Miller. DSR has a better jumper and Miller has better PG skills. Size and athleticism are similar.
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lda05816
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Post by lda05816 on Mar 31, 2015 15:25:51 GMT -5
What is the NBA comp for DSR? I wish him the best and if he makes a roster, it looks great for recruiting, but I couldn't really come up with a player who he resembles. Jameer Nelson? Yea I like that. Not nearly as quick as a young Jameer though and that will hurt him.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Mar 31, 2015 15:26:47 GMT -5
Some hot sports opinions to follow, but I remain loyal to John Thompson's stand from 40+ years ago: he wasn't interested in recruits who weren't interested in a degree. Nor should we. Unless a player is a lottery pick, out of eligibility, or flunking out, he should always be back for his senior year. DSR did not hold up his end of the bargain, plain & simple. Where does this "lottery pick" standard come from? Why are you loyal if you leave as the 10th pick in the draft but you're a traitor if you leave as the 20th pick? Seems like an artificial standard to avoid having to call out the Jeff Greens and Otto Porters of the world. Also, you may not like it, but DSR didn't have a bargain with us, let alone you. He had a bargain with JT3 and his teammates. And I would bet a lot of money that his teammates and his coach, even if they're disappointed in his decision, will support his right to make it for himself.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:26:48 GMT -5
What's with people playing the "I told you so card" now that they have the benefit of hindsight? Correct me if I'm wrong but did any of the posters clamoring for more ballhandling exactly predict that DSR would be gone? No they didn't but the question of possible injury to current back court players was posed many times.. The point was even with DSR on board the program needed more help in the backcourt for next season.. True, but that was a separate discussion from this one. Now DSR is no longer part of the program. It's a whole different dynamic.
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 31, 2015 15:27:18 GMT -5
There's a small army of Hoyas that are playing or have played overseas. Hope he is tapping that network for advice.
Someone must have told him he's got a shot at being late first round or second round. But a lot of kids are told the same thing, and it is a fairy tale. Hopefully he's listening to basketball people and not an eccentric uncle whose favorite player was Marvin Barnes.
I didn't think Hollis was NBA material either, but his physical profile helped get him over the hump -- he's the right size and plays the right position. Not sure this is true of DSR, although he has the mental outlook to be an NBA player.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:28:10 GMT -5
What's with people playing the "I told you so card" now that they have the benefit of hindsight? Correct me if I'm wrong but did any of the posters clamoring for more ballhandling exactly predict that DSR would be gone? Didn't have to predict he would be gone to realize we could use more ball handling... Is that semi competent? And if we got a 5th year PG commit today instead of DSR leaving would you have still been right? No, it's not semi-competent and your logic sucks.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 31, 2015 15:28:13 GMT -5
Next year, we'll once again be good. We had a chance to be great. Well, I guess we could be great in 2016-17, but that requires no one to go pro early, no one to get hurt, no one to screw up their academics and all of our top 100 recruits to be good. And no stupid tournament losses. Jeff, Greg Monroe, Otto, Hollis, DSR, Tyler, Greg Whittington, Chris Braswell, Josh, Nate, Reggie, Hopkins. It's really hard to see this program putting everything together for a big run. So, DSR was our last remaining hope to be a great team? That seems a little melodramatic. Nope. Just that everything about our history says we're always going to be one piece away (and, I just remembered that I forgot to include Chris Wright's injury in my list of things that have gone wrong, so that's nice). The difference b/w good and great next year is DSR's decision to go pro. We aren't a national title contender without him. The difference between good and great in 2016-17 will be Isaac going pro, or Govan developing on a Sims-like timeline, or somebody getting hurt or somebody not getting up for their flash mob final. And even if everything goes right one of these years, we'll still probably have to play Michigan State in the second round.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 31, 2015 15:28:15 GMT -5
No they didn't but the question of possible injury to current back court players was posed many times.. The point was even with DSR on board the program needed more help in the backcourt for next season.. True, but that was a separate discussion from this one. Now DSR is no longer part of the program. It's a whole different dynamic. How so exactly?
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Post by tullamore2 on Mar 31, 2015 15:28:54 GMT -5
Some hot sports opinions to follow, but I remain loyal to John Thompson's stand from 40+ years ago: he wasn't interested in recruits who weren't interested in a degree. Nor should we. Unless a player is a lottery pick, out of eligibility, or flunking out, he should always be back for his senior year. DSR did not hold up his end of the bargain, plain & simple. He didn't "hold up his end of the bargain"? What does he owe you? How is he any different than any other student? Because he plays basketball for the team you root for? Did Paul Allen, Michael Dell, Mark Zuckerberg & Bill Gates hold up their end of the bargain when they left college? DSR isn't allowed to make a living so you can have pleasure watching basketball? Neanderthal viewpoint.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 31, 2015 15:29:46 GMT -5
All that considered, you can't always plan for life and a degree in this system is not necessarily at the top of everyone's priority list. Not everyone wants the same thing out of life, much less college or sports. Why begrudge someone for making a decision that was obviously tough on him? If, with the promise of a free education at Georgetown University, a degree is not at the top of a recruit's priority list, decline the offer and look elsewhere. I'll never begrudge an Otto Porter or a Jeff Green who had a remarkable opportunity in front of them, or even a Victor Page who, to be fair, couldn't stay afloat academically even if he wanted to stay. But to walk away after three years and no guarantees is short a short-sighed decision it strains credulity. One need only look at the quote from Jim Barry on the front page--valid then, valid now: "I wanted to make sure I had a good education to fall back on in case basketball didn’t work out."
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:30:56 GMT -5
I'm waiting for the April's Fool tweet...
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:31:48 GMT -5
True, but that was a separate discussion from this one. Now DSR is no longer part of the program. It's a whole different dynamic. How so exactly? In one scenario you're discussing a lack of ballhandling while returning a two year starter and All-BE player at PG and in this current scenario our new starters don't even have backups.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 31, 2015 15:32:31 GMT -5
Another plus is we have tons of guard minutes to offer 5th year transfer for next year as well as those in '16 as we need depth desperately at this point. Just realized we have no one on the roster that can consistently hit the 3-ball. Not a good look for JTIII's offense.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:33:14 GMT -5
Look, it's all hypothetical now and irrelevant, but I don't think his stock necessarily was stuck in place. As you say, he improved a good deal this year, particularly on the defensive end. There's no reason to think he wouldn't improve a good deal more next year. And with a more balanced lineup (potentially), it's possible he would have gotten a significant number of additional open looks next year. If he finished the year as a 49% 3PT shooter, that would have opened doors for him at the NBA level, regardless of the size/athleticism concerns that weren't going to change. And if he has an outsized opinion of himself? Well, that's why you need to get some good advice. After all, the only thing that matters in terms of being drafted (or being invited to a camp) is what others think of you. Maybe they're all wrong, and you're right, but it doesn't make a difference. The first part seems unrealistic, and the second part off base. You think he would've signed with an agent so quickly if nobody believed in him. Most of the reason there hasn't been draft chatter about him is because no one expected him to declare early, but that's not the whole reason. Call me crazy, but I see someone who put up 17ppg as a sophomore having enough talent to at least catch an eye or two. I'll concede that there's a less than 50% chance that his draft stock would have improved in a material way, but I still don't think it was impossible. As to the second, I'm sure there ARE people saying he's good enough to be drafted, etc., but I simply believe they're wrong! If he's aware of the fact that he isn't going to get drafted, but still thinks this is the right move, then he may be making a mistake (or maybe not) but it isn't because he has an outsized opinion of himself.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Mar 31, 2015 15:33:48 GMT -5
Numbered thoughts:
1) If this is a financial need thing, then fine. He'll make money next year. 2) He absolutely could raise his NBA stock by staying a year. It certainly wouldn't drop from "undrafted" to "really undrafted." 3) I know we like to see guys get their degrees, but it really is only a piece of paper for many of them. They'll be career players overseas, some in countries that you've never heard of. They'll come back home and do something related to basketball. And if they decide they want to go into the working world, not having a degree is not going to hold them back. No Georgetown Alum is going to turn down DSR because he didn't take a second theology course in his senior year, or write a final sociology paper on race and gender relations in early 20th century Japan.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:36:02 GMT -5
All that considered, you can't always plan for life and a degree in this system is not necessarily at the top of everyone's priority list. Not everyone wants the same thing out of life, much less college or sports. Why begrudge someone for making a decision that was obviously tough on him? If, with the promise of a free education at Georgetown University, a degree is not at the top of a recruit's priority list, decline the offer and look elsewhere. I'll never begrudge an Otto Porter or a Jeff Green who had a remarkable opportunity in front of them, or even a Victor Page who, to be fair, couldn't stay afloat academically even if he wanted to stay. But to walk away after three years and no guarantees is short a short-sighed decision it strains credulity. One need only look at the quote from Jim Barry on the front page--valid then, valid now: "I wanted to make sure I had a good education to fall back on in case basketball didn’t work out."This is what's wrong with the NCAA and college sports today, people like you acting like athletes are being given handouts and didn't work hard to earn a scholarship. There were no four year scholarships in case you didn't know, I.e. Schools don't even commit to players for four years so why would a player have to commit to a school for four? Stop trying to make this about education because neither you nor I know DSRs motivations for declaring, nor do we know how much progress he has made towards his degree and what arrangements he has made to finish up.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 31, 2015 15:36:56 GMT -5
Some hot sports opinions to follow, but I remain loyal to John Thompson's stand from 40+ years ago: he wasn't interested in recruits who weren't interested in a degree. Nor should we. Unless a player is a lottery pick, out of eligibility, or flunking out, he should always be back for his senior year. DSR did not hold up his end of the bargain, plain & simple. Sorry, but this is nonsense. You fault a person for choosing to leave school because he feels it's in his best interest? DSR appears to have given it his all during his three years. The world has evolved from 40+ years ago, thank heaven. This is the environment in 2015, not the 1970's. And who says he's not interested in a degree?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 31, 2015 15:37:10 GMT -5
Wise words from someone that gets it:
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hoyainspirit
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When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 31, 2015 15:38:44 GMT -5
Didn't have to predict he would be gone to realize we could use more ball handling... Is that semi competent? And if we got a 5th year PG commit today instead of DSR leaving would you have still been right? No, it's not semi-competent and your logic sucks. OK, rock...
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 31, 2015 15:38:54 GMT -5
All that considered, you can't always plan for life and a degree in this system is not necessarily at the top of everyone's priority list. Not everyone wants the same thing out of life, much less college or sports. Why begrudge someone for making a decision that was obviously tough on him? If, with the promise of a free education at Georgetown University, a degree is not at the top of a recruit's priority list, decline the offer and look elsewhere. I'll never begrudge an Otto Porter or a Jeff Green who had a remarkable opportunity in front of them, or even a Victor Page who, to be fair, couldn't stay afloat academically even if he wanted to stay. But to walk away after three years and no guarantees is short a short-sighed decision it strains credulity. One need only look at the quote from Jim Barry on the front page--valid then, valid now: "I wanted to make sure I had a good education to fall back on in case basketball didn’t work out."Here's the thing, DFW: What is at the top of virtually every Top-100 recruit's priority list is developing in such a way as to make a living playing basketball in the NBA. That's probably been true for 30 years (heck, longer), but it's now the expectation among that cadre of recruits that once you are qualified to make that living, you leave college and do it. This is all a long way of saying that if we followed your blueprint, we wouldn't be an NCAA Tourney qualifier on a consistent basis because we wouldn't have the talent to get there. Maybe that's OK with you, but I think it's unrealistic to expect we can have it both ways in this environment. I know there are some exceptions in terms of programs, but not many, and not consistently. Heck, Duke (like Georgetown) didn't have an early entrant for a long-time and K was adamant about not recruiting them. And then he realized he couldn't compete without doing it, so he did.
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