NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 1, 2015 8:41:17 GMT -5
Hollis is only in the NBA due to an unprecedented tank-job by the Sixers. Hollis lucked out, he did not make a good decision. Hollis got a partially guaranteed contract with the Thunder right after the draft. No one thought he made a good decision because he went undrafted, but no one expected he'd get a contract either. He had more information than we did. The board was wrong there. Correct, Hollis got a contract from the Thunder with like $500K guaranteed. Not too many of us, at age 21, would stay in school for one more year and let that type of money go. The Thunder signed him prior to his hernia surgery so Hollis indeed knew more than this board about his options. Perhaps DSR also knows more, but we will see.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Apr 1, 2015 8:48:53 GMT -5
1. I would love for DSR to make the NBA..for his own benefit and for the benefit of the program. That is a given. 2. I do not think the Hollis and DSR comparisons are very apt, other then the fact that Hoyatalkers did not think he would play in the league. As noted, he did have a guaranteed deal in place. Further, Hollis is a 6 ft 8 inch three point shooter who is long and has hops....it is not surprising there is some place for that in the NBA. I'm guessing he could be the 12th man,even on a legit NBA team, a Rasual BUtler type. But a prior poster thought DSR best compared to John Paxson...going back 30 eyars to find a comparable is a big problem. Let's hope I am wrong.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 1, 2015 8:53:35 GMT -5
1. I would love for DSR to make the NBA..for his own benefit and for the benefit of the program. That is a given. 2. I do not think the Hollis and DSR comparisons are very apt, other then the fact that Hoyatalkers did not think he would play in the league. As noted, he did have a guaranteed deal in place. Further, Hollis is a 6 ft 8 inch three point shooter who is long and has hops....it is not surprising there is some place for that in the NBA. I'm guessing he could be the 12th man,even on a legit NBA team, a Rasual BUtler type. But a prior poster thought DSR best compared to John Paxson...going back 30 eyars to find a comparable is a big problem. Let's hope I am wrong. I think he is comparable worst case scenario to Jimmer Fredette or Jeremy Lin who have both been in the association for a while. Best case scenario a less athletic third guard like Chauncey Billups. DSR reminds me skill set wise of a much shorter Larry Bird. Paxson could not rebound and was pretty frail.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 1, 2015 8:55:40 GMT -5
1. I would love for DSR to make the NBA..for his own benefit and for the benefit of the program. That is a given. 2. I do not think the Hollis and DSR comparisons are very apt, other then the fact that Hoyatalkers did not think he would play in the league. As noted, he did have a guaranteed deal in place. Further, Hollis is a 6 ft 8 inch three point shooter who is long and has hops....it is not surprising there is some place for that in the NBA. I'm guessing he could be the 12th man,even on a legit NBA team, a Rasual BUtler type. But a prior poster thought DSR best compared to John Paxson...going back 30 eyars to find a comparable is a big problem. Let's hope I am wrong. I think he is comparable worst case scenario to Jimmer Fredette or Jeremy Lin who have both been in the association for a while. Best case scenario a less athletic third guard like Chauncey Billups. DSR reminds me skill set wise of a much shorter Larry Bird. Paxson could not rebound and was pretty frail. Good points
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Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Buckets on Apr 1, 2015 9:02:34 GMT -5
This morning when we all woke up, the 2015 Gtown team had three potential NBA talents on the roster. Now, after DSR has committed to the draft, the 2015 Gtown team has........3 potential NBA talents on the roster. In other words, I hate to inform the gloom and doom guys of Hoyatalk that the 2015-2016 Gtown roster is.....still stacked with a boatload of talent. Having said that. Losing DSR is certainly a huge loss. He's a two-time all-conference guy. He's a great college point guard in an era where great college point guards win games. Most importantly, he's a guy who took - and made - big shots. That won't be easily replaced. Now, having said THAT, I think Tre Campbell in his own way has every bit a chance to be as good as DSR. No, he won't give you 25. But he's superbly quick, he's shown that he can shoot the ball, and he's shown that he has a big heart and doesn't run away from clutch situations. I have no reservations with giving him the ball for 30 minutes a night. None whatsoever. Now, of course, we have depth issues right now. We suddenly need another ballhandler. We suddenly need more depth in the backcourt in general. If we don't find a way to address that, the doom and gloom guys of Hoyatalk may finally have a point. If we do - via spring signings - the doom and gloom guys of Hoyatalk will probably have to go crawl back into their little holes for another year. If we can find the depth, we still have a ton of talent and a chance to be very very good next season. Starting lineup as of now Tre LJ Peak Paul White Isaac Copeland Either Bradley Hayes, or Jesse Govan I'll go to war with that lineup every night. In five years, multiple guys in that lineup will be playing in the NBA Yeah, but you say this every April. In April 2013 you said we were a top 10 team even if Porter left that would win 25-30 games, that Whittington was a potential lottery pick, and Starks was bound for the NBA. Sometimes things don't work out as planned. Saying this team has three potential NBA talents is extraordinarily generous to whatever two guys not named Isaac Copeland you're referring to. I assume one is the 6'5" shooting guard who can't shoot which is about as hot an NBA commodity as the unathletic combo guard. The other is either a poor man's Kyle Anderson (currently in the D-League) or well-regarded-not-elite big who's never stepped on a college court with questions surrounding defense, rebounding, and athleticism. All potential to be good college players, but not exactly hot NBA commodities based on skill sets shown to date. If you're willing to extrapolate from past performance to the far end of what is possible for every guy on the roster, the future looks pretty bright. Assuming we'll just find a capable graduate transfer guard seems pretty optimistic given our recruiting performance at guard. We just lost the preseason player of the year, our best outside shooter on a team that really needs it, and we have two guards on scholarship. This is a big blow.
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Post by bicentennial on Apr 1, 2015 9:06:40 GMT -5
My point in naming Paxson is that sometimes a team sees a specific role for a player that fits in their general scheme. Hopefully if DSR is not signing with Falk, whoever he is signing with (?Dematha Agent) has specific teams in mind that might want a guard who is a spot up 3 point shooter with a nack for rebounding and has a reasonable assist/turnover ratio. If not in the US then certainly there are squads in Europe that can use that player!
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 1, 2015 9:15:08 GMT -5
The Paxson comparison is interesting, because I thought that one thing DSR could improve on during his last year in college was to become a truly elite shooter on that level. At this point, I think he is a very good, but streaky, shooter. I think he has the capacity to become (holds back urge to vomit) a shooter of JJ Reddick's caliber, and to project for the NBA in similar fashion. He needs to get a quicker release and become more comfortable with guys right in his face to get near that level.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Apr 1, 2015 9:16:57 GMT -5
Put me in the lonely camp of being excited about the team going forward without DSR. I'm a big fan of his and we'll miss his scoring and overall game, but I don't think his style of play necessarily opened things up for our other players. He is such a good shooter, we defaulted to him so much and rightfully so. But he was often shut down by longer and athletic defenders, and I think our success will be more driven by our other players. Maybe I'm in denial, but insert Tre and another a capable ball handling/passing/penetrating guard and I remain damn optimistic. Put me in this camp as well dungeon! I believe we will find someone in the transfer market who will come in and help mitigate the loss of DSR. I also truly believe this team is the most talented team III has had since the 2010 team. I look at it this way...in 2013 with Otto look at the talent around him. There really was not much. A frosh DSR who was solid. A junior Markel who was a little better than solid. But who else?? No offense to these guys but Jabril, Mikael, Nate, Moses, Bowen: that was the rest of our rotation and that is a group filled with role players who were limited in at least one aspect of the game, if not more. And we still ended up being a 2 seed in the tournament and ranked in the top 10 for a decent chunk of the season. That team was not very old and relied primarily on sophs and juniors. Now, I'm not going to say Ike will play himself into going 3rd in next year's draft like Otto did BUT I do believe he will play his way into being a surefire first rounder next year if he chooses to leave. So with that being said, it is obvious that Ike will have to have a great year similar to Otto. If that's the case which I believe it will be I don't see how this team cannot be as good as that team. There's just so much more talent on this team. LJ will use the last game to propel his work this offseason. Every team in the country would love to have a player as skilled and intelligent as PW. He will be better next year and more than likely won't have a lull again like he did this season now that he has a year of experience. Tre is fearless. Just think the kid has the "it" factor. He's a gamer, is tough, can shoot, and handle. Hayes builds off his tournament, Jessie provides 15 mins a game of a low post threat, and Akoy gives us a tough 15 mins a game providing some shot blocking and post offense. Not to mention Derrickson who is the big this offense has been lacking over the years with his ability to stretch the floor. He's the big we've been missing and he's strong enough already to play from day one. Especially since he's in better shape. Then sprinkle in some time for Kaleb Johnson. I admit I'm an optimist, but I truly believe this team will be very good. Like 3 seed in the tourney good next year. Might take a couple on the chin in the non conference but I expect to compete for the Big East title as things start to click and Akoy gets thrown into the fold in January. Don't underestimate the leadership of this rising sophomore class. I think we look back on this group in a few years as the group that brought us back to the national stage. Damn, I hope I'm right. Hoya Saxa Put me in this camp as well. I think people are underestimating how significantly the 4 freshman contributed/played so many minutes. If all 4 of them even make half the leap Jeff Green did, we are going to be pretty good. CBB is an underclassmen's game, and III is starting to realize that more and more. 5-10 years ago it would have been crazy for someone like Coach K to turn his team over to a freshman PG, but that's just the way it is now. I'm more worried about depth than anything else.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Apr 1, 2015 9:20:55 GMT -5
On a brighter note, think how much more attractive a transfer destination we just became to the 5th year guard prospects out there. Hopefully the staff can convey that message.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Apr 1, 2015 9:24:53 GMT -5
Put me in this camp as well dungeon! I believe we will find someone in the transfer market who will come in and help mitigate the loss of DSR. I also truly believe this team is the most talented team III has had since the 2010 team. I look at it this way...in 2013 with Otto look at the talent around him. There really was not much. A frosh DSR who was solid. A junior Markel who was a little better than solid. But who else?? No offense to these guys but Jabril, Mikael, Nate, Moses, Bowen: that was the rest of our rotation and that is a group filled with role players who were limited in at least one aspect of the game, if not more. And we still ended up being a 2 seed in the tournament and ranked in the top 10 for a decent chunk of the season. That team was not very old and relied primarily on sophs and juniors. Now, I'm not going to say Ike will play himself into going 3rd in next year's draft like Otto did BUT I do believe he will play his way into being a surefire first rounder next year if he chooses to leave. So with that being said, it is obvious that Ike will have to have a great year similar to Otto. If that's the case which I believe it will be I don't see how this team cannot be as good as that team. There's just so much more talent on this team. LJ will use the last game to propel his work this offseason. Every team in the country would love to have a player as skilled and intelligent as PW. He will be better next year and more than likely won't have a lull again like he did this season now that he has a year of experience. Tre is fearless. Just think the kid has the "it" factor. He's a gamer, is tough, can shoot, and handle. Hayes builds off his tournament, Jessie provides 15 mins a game of a low post threat, and Akoy gives us a tough 15 mins a game providing some shot blocking and post offense. Not to mention Derrickson who is the big this offense has been lacking over the years with his ability to stretch the floor. He's the big we've been missing and he's strong enough already to play from day one. Especially since he's in better shape. Then sprinkle in some time for Kaleb Johnson. I admit I'm an optimist, but I truly believe this team will be very good. Like 3 seed in the tourney good next year. Might take a couple on the chin in the non conference but I expect to compete for the Big East title as things start to click and Akoy gets thrown into the fold in January. Don't underestimate the leadership of this rising sophomore class. I think we look back on this group in a few years as the group that brought us back to the national stage. Damn, I hope I'm right. Hoya Saxa Put me in this camp as well. I think people are underestimating how significantly the 4 freshman contributed/played so many minutes. If all 4 of them even make half the leap Jeff Green did, we are going to be pretty good. CBB is an underclassmen's game, and III is starting to realize that more and more. 5-10 years ago it would have been crazy for someone like Coach K to turn his team over to a freshman PG, but that's just the way it is now. I'm more worried about depth than anything else. We. Have. No. One. That. Shoots. The. Three-Ball. Consistently. Yes, in limited usage some/all of our sophomores showed flashes, but seriously this is a major problem. We need a guard that can shoot the 3 or else it doesn't work. Picking up a spring signee '15 won't help immediately and seems like there are limited options in the transfer market. What about JUCO? I love our sophomores and think some/all of them will be special, but losing DSR hurts the most from behind the arc.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 1, 2015 9:24:54 GMT -5
My point in naming Paxson is that sometimes a team sees a specific role for a player that fits in their general scheme. Hopefully if DSR is not signing with Falk, whoever he is signing with (?Dematha Agent) has specific teams in mind that might want a guard who is a spot up 3 point shooter with a nack for rebounding and has a reasonable assist/turnover ratio. If not in the US then certainly there are squads in Europe that can use that player! Yes but you said going back 30 years ago and implied that there hadn't been a comparable guard in the modern game circa 2015. And that is simply not true as you have guys like Jimmer Fredette and Jermey Lin, even Steve Kerr (who came after Paxson) in the league will a similar skillset. Europe is a given back up plan IMO. I would think that there's been some kind of agreement with an NBA team that DSR will be picked at a certain spot in the 2nd or late first if he comes out now. Kind of a variation on the Larry Bird junior eligible rule that allowed Red Auerback to select Larry Bird much lower (6th in the draft as opposed to one or two) in the draft than would have happened if Bird was selected as a senior. Of course it would be nice to have the junior eligible rule still so that DSR could be drafted and then finish out his senior year at Georgetown.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 1, 2015 9:25:49 GMT -5
On a brighter note, think how much more attractive a transfer destination we just became to the 5th year guard prospects out there. Hopefully the staff can convey that message. Matt Carlino, seventh year eligible graduate player.
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Post by wrestlemania on Apr 1, 2015 9:28:56 GMT -5
Regarding the impact on next year's team, it's better that he leaves if this is truly what he wants to do. Summers didn't do anyone any favors by having one foot out the door.
Like it or not, kids with DSR's talent and ambition attend college to play basketball, not the other way around. Comparisons to Victor Page are ridiculous -- everyone knows there were other issues there that probably would have torpedoed his playing career anyway.
Pops was not as hostile to early departures as people seem to believe -- he actively looked into whether Patrick Ewing should leave after his junior year, and had no real complaints about Iverson. His son gets it too -- the program will be fine.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Apr 1, 2015 9:33:23 GMT -5
Put me in this camp as well. I think people are underestimating how significantly the 4 freshman contributed/played so many minutes. If all 4 of them even make half the leap Jeff Green did, we are going to be pretty good. CBB is an underclassmen's game, and III is starting to realize that more and more. 5-10 years ago it would have been crazy for someone like Coach K to turn his team over to a freshman PG, but that's just the way it is now. I'm more worried about depth than anything else. We. Have. No. One. That. Shoots. The. Three-Ball. Consistently. Yes, in limited usage some/all of our sophomores showed flashes, but seriously this is a major problem. We need a guard that can shoot the 3 or else it doesn't work. Picking up a spring signee '15 won't help immediately and seems like there are limited options in the transfer market. What about JUCO? I love our sophomores and think some/all of them will be special, but losing DSR hurts the most from behind the arc. Tre Campbell was 21 for 58 from 3. That's 36%. DSR was 39%. Is it really that insane to think he, Peak, White and Copeland will become better at shooting 3s? If it makes you feel better, look at the different from DSR from freshman year to sophomore year. I agree that losing DSR is huge for next year, but Im not that pessimistic about the team as a whole.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 1, 2015 9:33:34 GMT -5
Put me in this camp as well. I think people are underestimating how significantly the 4 freshman contributed/played so many minutes. If all 4 of them even make half the leap Jeff Green did, we are going to be pretty good. CBB is an underclassmen's game, and III is starting to realize that more and more. 5-10 years ago it would have been crazy for someone like Coach K to turn his team over to a freshman PG, but that's just the way it is now. I'm more worried about depth than anything else. We. Have. No. One. That. Shoots. The. Three-Ball. Consistently. Yes, in limited usage some/all of our sophomores showed flashes, but seriously this is a major problem. We need a guard that can shoot the 3 or else it doesn't work. Picking up a spring signee '15 won't help immediately and seems like there are limited options in the transfer market. What about JUCO? I love our sophomores and think some/all of them will be special, but losing DSR hurts the most from behind the arc. Not really sure JuCo is really an option for us anymore (look at the academic powerhouses who have commits), but 247 has a class ranking, and it looks like there are some 3 star guards available, although they are mostly at MidWest / Southwest schools 247sports.com/Season/2015-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=JuniorCollegeI have no idea what a 3 star JuCo talent means.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 1, 2015 9:36:56 GMT -5
Put me in this camp as well. I think people are underestimating how significantly the 4 freshman contributed/played so many minutes. If all 4 of them even make half the leap Jeff Green did, we are going to be pretty good. CBB is an underclassmen's game, and III is starting to realize that more and more. 5-10 years ago it would have been crazy for someone like Coach K to turn his team over to a freshman PG, but that's just the way it is now. I'm more worried about depth than anything else. We. Have. No. One. That. Shoots. The. Three-Ball. Consistently. Yes, in limited usage some/all of our sophomores showed flashes, but seriously this is a major problem. We need a guard that can shoot the 3 or else it doesn't work. Picking up a spring signee '15 won't help immediately and seems like there are limited options in the transfer market. What about JUCO? I love our sophomores and think some/all of them will be special, but losing DSR hurts the most from behind the arc. If you don't see Tre, at the very least, knocking down the three consistently next year then I don't know what to tell you...
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 1, 2015 9:40:54 GMT -5
Regarding the impact on next year's team, it's better that he leaves if this is truly what he wants to do. Summers didn't do anyone any favors by having one foot out the door. Like it or not , kids with DSR's talent and ambition attend college to play basketball, not the other way around. Comparisons to Victor Page are ridiculous -- everyone knows there were other issues there that probably would have torpedoed his playing career anyway. Pops was not as hostile to early departures as people seem to believe -- he actively looked into whether Patrick Ewing should leave after his junior year, and had no real complaints about Iverson. His son gets it too -- the program will be fine. Plus DSR is already 22. He would be over 23 and a half before next years draft. The oldest players drafted last year were McDermott who had just turned 22, Shabazz Napier an old 21 and Adrien Payne who had just turned 23. NBA generally likes younger prospects, and drafting an almost 24 year old rookie would work against DSR adding another factor that could hurt his draft status. Fourth year players also tend to have that working against them as well as there is a perception that you would have come out earlier if you were NBA level. (You look at Freeman, Wright, Starks. Coming back for a 4th year really didn't help them). And then you have the economic opportunity cost. Forgoing a year of six figure salary (from the NBA or Europe or China) that you wouldn't be able to make up. And if he were somehow able to get a 4 year rookie contract and play really well, DSR would be basically 28 year old before being able to negotiate a long term big contract and once again his age would likely hurt the value of the bigger long term contract.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Apr 1, 2015 9:42:53 GMT -5
We. Have. No. One. That. Shoots. The. Three-Ball. Consistently. Yes, in limited usage some/all of our sophomores showed flashes, but seriously this is a major problem. We need a guard that can shoot the 3 or else it doesn't work. Picking up a spring signee '15 won't help immediately and seems like there are limited options in the transfer market. What about JUCO? I love our sophomores and think some/all of them will be special, but losing DSR hurts the most from behind the arc. If you don't see Tre, at the very least, knocking down the three consistently next year then I don't know what to tell you... Can Campbell shoot upper 30s% from 3 with over 100 3PAs next year? I don't know...maybe. He definitely showed some potential which was a terrific surprise because, from what I could tell, that wasn't necessarily a noted strength of his game coming out of HS. He has a great looking stroke so with a lot of reps, there is definitely hope. I can't say I expect that he will maintain a great shooting % from outside if he is keyed on in DSR's absence. Anyway, proven high usage 3pt% is totally absent in next year's team. That's not to say it won't materialize from one or more of our guys but you gotta admit, it is an unknown.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 1, 2015 9:42:55 GMT -5
Put me in this camp as well. I think people are underestimating how significantly the 4 freshman contributed/played so many minutes. If all 4 of them even make half the leap Jeff Green did, we are going to be pretty good. CBB is an underclassmen's game, and III is starting to realize that more and more. 5-10 years ago it would have been crazy for someone like Coach K to turn his team over to a freshman PG, but that's just the way it is now. I'm more worried about depth than anything else. We. Have. No. One. That. Shoots. The. Three-Ball. Consistently. Yes, in limited usage some/all of our sophomores showed flashes, but seriously this is a major problem. We need a guard that can shoot the 3 or else it doesn't work. Picking up a spring signee '15 won't help immediately and seems like there are limited options in the transfer market. What about JUCO? I love our sophomores and think some/all of them will be special, but losing DSR hurts the most from behind the arc. I agree completely. Adding another solid shooter when we had DSR in the fold was my main goal given the loss of Trawick. That said, Cope shot it at a higher percentage than did DSR this year, White was awfully close (and that's including his lengthy slump), and so was Tre. Yes, much lower usage, but it's not like everyone remaining on the roster is Bowen. It's far from inconceivable that those three guys (all playing much more significant minutes and using more possessions) all shoot it at roughly the percentage DSR did. It'd just be spread around more, but the cumulative effect might be better. That's a lot of maybes, but it's not crazy-think. Now....I was hoping all those things would happen AND we'd have DSR, but oh well.....
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Apr 1, 2015 9:49:58 GMT -5
We. Have. No. One. That. Shoots. The. Three-Ball. Consistently. Yes, in limited usage some/all of our sophomores showed flashes, but seriously this is a major problem. We need a guard that can shoot the 3 or else it doesn't work. Picking up a spring signee '15 won't help immediately and seems like there are limited options in the transfer market. What about JUCO? I love our sophomores and think some/all of them will be special, but losing DSR hurts the most from behind the arc. If you don't see Tre, at the very least, knocking down the three consistently next year then I don't know what to tell you... Heck, I said the same thing about Reggie last year and I bet you don't know what to tell me. In other words, as brasky said, we don't have the proven high-frequency shooter(s) and it doesn't hurt to get one now if available.
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