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Post by professorhoya on Jul 28, 2015 19:28:03 GMT -5
I am optimistic - but we may want to temper our expectations until we see how our bigs play against D1 level competition every night. I like it. At least we will have mobile players in the post, a seven footer altering shot selection, a more experienced LJ who (hopefully) will not get lost, plus the wingspans and height the doc mentioned. It's a new-look team. Btw, according to ESPN, Joshua averaged 20 mpg and Hopkins 22 mpg. Is there any way to figure out how much of MH's total minutes were played at the 4 and 5? Well they both started games. So any Hopkins minutes before either Josh/Hopkins were subbed out are with Hopkins at power forward. The rest at center. The only other guy who played center was Hayes so Hopkins probably played around 19 minutes a game at center and 3 mpg at power forward.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 28, 2015 20:26:27 GMT -5
We have a chance to be Final Four good this season.
I'm not saying definitively that's where we'll end up.
But that's our ceiling. We are that talented.
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ryang
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 115
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Post by ryang on Jul 28, 2015 21:24:02 GMT -5
We have a chance to be Final Four good this season. I'm not saying definitively that's where we'll end up. But that's our ceiling. We are that talented. Personally I don't see that as being the ceiling. I don't think our talent is there. I think as fans we start to like some of the players, but we sometimes confuse that with real talent. I know I am sometimes guilty of this myself.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 28, 2015 21:34:55 GMT -5
We have a chance to be Final Four good this season. I'm not saying definitively that's where we'll end up. But that's our ceiling. We are that talented. Personally I don't see that as being the ceiling. I don't think our talent is there. I think as fans we start to like some of the players, but we sometimes confuse that with real talent. I know I am sometimes guilty of this myself. I've said this before. This will be our most purely talented team since 07. Copeland, Peak, Govan, and White all have NBA potential. And that's not counting DSR. Not sue how you can't see the obvious bundles of talent on this roster, but it's all good.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 28, 2015 21:36:53 GMT -5
And experience won't be an issue either, since DSR is back and every member of the sophomore class saw significant playing time last season. We could probably use one more shooter. We could probably use one more rim protector/defender in the frontcourt. But other than that - or injury to DSR or Tre - I don't see many weaknesses on our roster
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,328
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Post by vv83 on Jul 28, 2015 21:45:18 GMT -5
Great to hear that daytonahoya31 is so high on our talent. The key to big success this year may well be having one of the real talented players step up and play at a conference player of the year level, the way Jeff Green did in 2007. It is great to have depth of talent across the roster. But you need someone who can step up and make the big play in the biggest games consistently. DSR, Peak, and Copeland all have the potential to be this kind of player this year.
While DSR is best positioned to play this role for the coming season, the player I am most curious about for this year is Peak. He probably has the most potential on the team. If everything clicks for him, he can be dynamic both attacking the basket and shooting from outside, while being a very strong defender. He has flashed the ability to do all these things at different points in his high school/college career - but did not deliver on this potential with any consistency last year. if he puts it together this year - I think we can look forward to a real successful season.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 28, 2015 21:48:57 GMT -5
Great to hear that daytonahoya31 is so high on our talent. The key to big success this year may well be having one of the real talented players step up and play at a conference player of the year level, the way Jeff Green did in 2007. It is great to have depth of talent across the roster. But you need someone who can step up and make the big play in the biggest games consistently. DSR, Peak, and Copeland all have the potential to be this kind of player this year. While DSR is best positioned to play this role for the coming season, the player I am most curious about for this year is Peak. He probably has the most potential on the team. If everything clicks for him, he can be dynamic both attacking the basket and shooting from outside, while being a very strong defender. He has flashed the ability to do all these things at different points in his high school/college career - but did not deliver on this potential with any consistency last year. if he puts it together this year - I think we can look forward to a real successful season. 95 percent of hoyatalk tabs Copeland as our best pro prospect. And while I think Issac is a potential lotto pick, I've had two NBA GM's tell me personally that they think Peak is our best pro prospect. I thought that was interesting, because I was in that 95 percent
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 28, 2015 22:26:39 GMT -5
Great to hear that daytonahoya31 is so high on our talent. The key to big success this year may well be having one of the real talented players step up and play at a conference player of the year level, the way Jeff Green did in 2007. It is great to have depth of talent across the roster. But you need someone who can step up and make the big play in the biggest games consistently. DSR, Peak, and Copeland all have the potential to be this kind of player this year. While DSR is best positioned to play this role for the coming season, the player I am most curious about for this year is Peak. He probably has the most potential on the team. If everything clicks for him, he can be dynamic both attacking the basket and shooting from outside, while being a very strong defender. He has flashed the ability to do all these things at different points in his high school/college career - but did not deliver on this potential with any consistency last year. if he puts it together this year - I think we can look forward to a real successful season. 95 percent of hoyatalk tabs Copeland as our best pro prospect. And while I think Issac is a potential lotto pick, I've had two NBA GM's tell me personally that they think Peak is our best pro prospect. I thought that was interesting, because I was in that 95 percent That would be ridiculous if 95% actually thought Copeland was the best pro prospect. The majority believing so? Fine with me. But anywhere near 95%? That would be absurd. Then again HT has never had a collective man-crush on Peak as they do Copeland so it shouldn't surprise me.
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deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,850
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Post by deacon on Jul 28, 2015 22:48:25 GMT -5
Great to hear that daytonahoya31 is so high on our talent. The key to big success this year may well be having one of the real talented players step up and play at a conference player of the year level, the way Jeff Green did in 2007. It is great to have depth of talent across the roster. But you need someone who can step up and make the big play in the biggest games consistently. DSR, Peak, and Copeland all have the potential to be this kind of player this year. While DSR is best positioned to play this role for the coming season, the player I am most curious about for this year is Peak. He probably has the most potential on the team. If everything clicks for him, he can be dynamic both attacking the basket and shooting from outside, while being a very strong defender. He has flashed the ability to do all these things at different points in his high school/college career - but did not deliver on this potential with any consistency last year. if he puts it together this year - I think we can look forward to a real successful season. 95 percent of hoyatalk tabs Copeland as our best pro prospect. And while I think Issac is a potential lotto pick, I've had two NBA GM's tell me personally that they think Peak is our best pro prospect. I thought that was interesting, because I was in that 95 percent I'm 100% in that 95% and find that very interesting. Did they say why they believe that?
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Post by pahoyafan1 on Jul 28, 2015 23:18:26 GMT -5
95 percent of hoyatalk tabs Copeland as our best pro prospect. And while I think Issac is a potential lotto pick, I've had two NBA GM's tell me personally that they think Peak is our best pro prospect. I thought that was interesting, because I was in that 95 percent I'm 100% in that 95% and find that very interesting. Did they say why they believe that? I thought Peak had the highest ceiling of anyone on the court when he played at Whitney (yes higher than Jalil at the time). I've been higher on him and Tre than most though (Govan too). I am also in the camp who agrees we have final four type talent this year. We have five guys with significant experience in relation to college basketball so as long as one of our bigs becomes consistent we will be a dangerous team. I think Govan fits that bill
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wnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by wnyhoya on Jul 29, 2015 6:22:11 GMT -5
I'm in the group that believes Final Four is this team's ceiling. Just too much talent. Look at the teams that advance in the NCAA tournament - they all have NBA talent driving that run. Duke did, Kentucky did, Wisconsin did, and MSU was the outlier this year. I'm not saying we have 3 lotto picks on this roster like some of those teams but we have 2 1st rounders IMO (Peak and Copeland), DSR and PW who I believe will both get a chance in the league, Govan who very well could be a 1st rounder down the road (at least drafted), and Derrickson who may get a shot down the road. That's talent folks without even mentioning Tre and Akoy. I hope it all clicks come March. Hoya Saxa
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,265
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Post by Locker on Jul 29, 2015 6:50:04 GMT -5
Duke was 12th defensively but they were 125th in defensive rebounding and 113th in 2P% defense. So people are right that they were just average at defensive rebounding and guarding the rim. Opponents got 61% of their points from 2pt range the 3rd worse mark in the country, so clearly they had deficiencies. They made up for it by 1) Not fouling (4th nationally) 2) defended the 3 well (44th), were above average in steals (63rd). The "not fouling" part is where the Hoyas have a huge chance of improving their efficiency on defense. It's been discussed on HT plenty, but I still don't think most fans realize just how awful it has been. Count me in the camp that thinks next year's team will have a much higher collective hoops IQ and will significantly reduce the number of silly fouls committed -- both on defense and on offense.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Jul 29, 2015 7:01:32 GMT -5
I am optimistic - but we may want to temper our expectations until we see how our bigs play against D1 level competition every night. I like it. At least we will have mobile players in the post, a seven footer altering shot selection, a more experienced LJ who (hopefully) will not get lost, plus the wingspans and height the doc mentioned. It's a new-look team. Btw, according to ESPN, Joshua averaged 20 mpg and Hopkins 22 mpg. Is there any way to figure out how much of MH's total minutes were played at the 4 and 5? Even if you had those numbers, I think it would still be a bit misleading. The number of times those two guys played in foul trouble and, as such, had to alter how they played (not that they did that all that well in terms of picking up fouls) likely detracts from how representative those stats are of their typical play.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Jul 29, 2015 7:11:33 GMT -5
I have no idea what the ceiling of this squad is considering I haven't seen them play together yet. That said, even when I see them play together, I'll probably still be wrong. That said, on paper, it's a really talented group. I'm curious to see how all of the moving parts fit together (if they do) and how they'll come together and progress to cover some likely problem areas (mostly defensively). I'm excited for DSR because he should be able to, more than in past years, let the game come to him as opposed to always having to be the focus of the offense. He should be able to play more free and easy because there will be more options on offense than we're accustomed to seeing in the past handful of seasons. I can't wait to see the dude pictured at left and the other sophomores to see the results of the work they've put in. I also can't wait to see the freshmen and to see live what so many on this board have been reporting on since their signings. Even in down years, I get pretty excited for the season to start. This year, I'm pumped.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 29, 2015 9:18:38 GMT -5
95 percent of hoyatalk tabs Copeland as our best pro prospect. And while I think Issac is a potential lotto pick, I've had two NBA GM's tell me personally that they think Peak is our best pro prospect. I thought that was interesting, because I was in that 95 percent That would be ridiculous if 95% actually thought Copeland was the best pro prospect. The majority believing so? Fine with me. But anywhere near 95%? That would be absurd. Then again HT has never had a collective man-crush on Peak as they do Copeland so it shouldn't surprise me. I can see why people would put Peak higher. He can get to the rim in college -- good pro players don't settle for pull up jumpers in college. Against college D, good pro players get to the rack. He's also furthest along on defense; you can see him defending the 2 in the NBA. And he's got acceptable NBA 2 size thought he can't play anywhere else. Add in that SG tends to be the weakest position in the NBA (though center is thinner) and if he can learn to shoot, he's got a very good shot. Copeland may end up a bit of a tweener. It's tough to see him bulking up too much, so his role as a stretch four may always be a bit more of a role player, because he may never be tough enough to bang with the big fours. Like Peak, he's got appropriate height for his likely position, but he's not advantaged in the NBA unless he's playing the 3, and I can see more questions about Copeland defending the 3 than Peak the 2. Copeland doesn't have a great handle or step. On the other hand, he's a much better shooter than Peak, he has the height, and he's scrappier than people give him credit for. I can see both ways.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Jul 29, 2015 9:25:41 GMT -5
Watching Peak play with the national team this Summer, I was struck by his improvement on defense. That alone enhances his value to the team and to a potential pro team. For the first time, I started to think that Peak could have a legitimate shot at going professional after this upcoming season. At this point, it depends on his shooting and whether he can develop into an acceptable outside threat. Seems to have put in the work this off-season.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 29, 2015 9:31:27 GMT -5
The overall level of team talent is interesting. Compared to 2007, I'd say this:
* 2007 had four NBA players in the frontcourt, though 2 of them had shorter careers. Two of those players are NBA starts and both the NBA starters were juniors. The other two were freshmen, and one was very ready to contribute as a role player and the other came off the bench.
* The rest of the team was more of less role players - RS junior energy guy down low with near-NBA talent; junior shooter and sophomore onions at guard. A backup defensive freshmen guard. We went 7-8 deep with decent physical talent but overall nothing elite past the 2 NBA starters.
* I'd say if we are comparing, the 2007 team had 2 NBA starters, 4 NBA players and an "almost there." Our current team is probably rolling out 3-4 NBA players and maybe anywhere from 1-3 fringe players, depending on your feelings. But I'm not absolutely certain yet there's an NBA starter in the bunch -- Peak, Copeland or Govan will need to make some kind of production leap like Otto or Jeff or Roy to lock that in. It's the star level talent on an NBA level that I don't know that 2015 has.
* That team was more experienced. It had an eight man crew in reality, and it was 3 frosh, 1 soph, 3 juniors and a 1 RS junior. 2 of the frosh came off the bench and were defintiely 7-8 in the rotation. This year we have an unknown rotation, but it's fairly certain that it's going to be 1 Sr and a lot of sophomores, at least 1 frosh and the chances of the rest of the junior and senior class getting 30 mpg across all of them seems kinda slim, even if you toss in RS Soph Agau.
* That said ... The 2007 frontcourt was more talented on a per minute basis across the board and most likely more productive. But the Peak / DSR / Campbell group has a chance to really blow away the 2007 backcourt. The 2007 backcourt minimized mistakes and hit big shots. But this 2015 backcourt is going to have to do it in volume, on defense ... more than just be efficient. Because while I love Copeland, Govan, White, etc, I don't see them outperforming Hibbert / Green / Summers / Ewing / Macklin.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 10:21:44 GMT -5
I like our potential but potential doesn't win games production does. Going to be interesting to see how our Sophs play wih an X on their back now that defenses will be game planning against them. Also interested to see how Jessie defends on the Perimeter considering teams will be putting him in PNR all season long. Can he be effective and not pick up quick silly fouls.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jul 29, 2015 10:29:16 GMT -5
WE WILL SEE but pretty darn excited here this team has more than potential it has great TALENT and DEPTH yup wowowoo we WILL surprise bring on the twerps MAYBE rated number one preseason OH HOYAS
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by vv83 on Jul 29, 2015 11:25:32 GMT -5
I like our potential but potential doesn't win games production does. Going to be interesting to see how our Sophs play wih an X on their back now that defenses will be game planning against them. Also interested to see how Jessie defends on the Perimeter considering teams will be putting him in PNR all season long. Can he be effective and not pick up quick silly fouls. Jessie defending the pick and roll has been pretty ugly in Kenner games this summer, and that is against competition a couple of levels down the scale from what he'll face in the regular season. He is a smart kid, he'll learn how to defend on the perimeter better. But he is not very quick laterally, so he struggles when asked to hedge or switch. For the short term, our best bet might be conservative "drop back into the lane" PnR defense that has become more prevalent in the NBA. Give the guard an open mid range shot if his defender can't fight through the pick quickly enough. But don't allow penetration that breaks down the defensive scheme completely. This approach puts a lot of pressure on the guards to fight through picks and recover quickly. But if we ask Jessie to hedge/switch right now, we may see a lot of guards flying unchecked into the lane.
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