Loyal Hoya
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Post by Loyal Hoya on Mar 22, 2015 22:39:22 GMT -5
I don't believe in schadenfreude, but I can't say that I'm disappointed that the Terps and Wahoos were also shut out of the Sweet 16. Still, both teams had great seasons for which they should be congratulated. I hope to have a chance to play them in the not too distant future.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Mar 23, 2015 9:00:46 GMT -5
Have never had a problem with UVA fan. Md...very glad they lost. They are also much closer in terms of recruiting competition.
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Post by pghhoya on Mar 23, 2015 9:30:02 GMT -5
One last post in this thread for me. Now that I've had the chance to digest last night's loss, and the end of the season. . . 1. I wrote, much earlier this system, that this team was flawed, and that it would be a bumpy season while the freshmen had a chance to develop. I believe that I finished that post with the phrase "Let's enjoy the ride." Well, I enjoyed the ride. I did not expect this team to go far in the NCAAs due to the up-and-down nature of the season. Would I have liked to have seen the Hoyas get to the Sweet Sixteen. Of course. There was just too much inconsistency to ensure that it would happen, though, and that inconsistency was very predictable. 2. There is not a single soul on this board who believes that we merited a #4 seed this season. We were, by all accounts, overseeded. Utah was, by all accounts, underseeded. Utah was in the top fifteen almost all season. The highest we were ever ranked was #21. Had we been a #5 or #6 seed, and lost to a #4 Utah, there would have been very little complaint (or, maybe, should have been very little complaint). The NCAA Selection Committee did us a favor with the seeding, and we, as a fan base, foolishly believed that we deserved the #4 and reordered our expectations accordingly. 3. We can complain all we want about Joshua Smith's propensity for poor defensive technique and ensuing foul trouble, and we can complain all we want about Mikael Hopkins's lack of offensive ability. We cannot complain about their desire to improve and to play hard. We, as a fan base, keep expecting square pegs to adapt to round holes; Smith is who he is, and Hopkins is who he is. We got everything we could out of them, as players, and we cannot expect that they would suddenly become centers with greater abilities. One of the things that we have largely forgotten is that Tyler Adams was recruited by JT3 to play center, and we will never really know how that would have worked out because of Adams's health issues. If Adams is healthy, is there room for Smith on the roster? It's hard to extrapolate. We should have, as fans, accepted that flaw, but we continued to expect more; we set ourselves up for an unwarranted disappointment. 4. The eagerness of some posters to throw JT3 under the bus, with each and every loss, is astonishing and perplexing. Not every GU loss is a coaching failure. Sometimes, like last night, you play a better team, and you get beaten. On those occasions, it has nothing to do with heart, or desire, or toughness, or even execution, and it certainly has nothing to do with coaching. Are there in-game decisions that are questionable? Absolutely. Is there a better coach available right now, to take over the program, if you were inclined to simply judge the Hoya program on March success? I don't see one out there. In fact, there is an old adage that bears consideration: Be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it. 5. A lot is being written today about the perceived shortcomings of the Big East Conference in this year's tournament. If you look at the season-long rankings in the AP and USA Today, as well as RPI and ESPN's BPI, we rightfully could only have expected one team (Villanova) to get through to the Sweet Sixteen. The Big East did get one team through. . . .just not the one we thought would get through. The fact that the Pacific 12 and Atlantic Coast Conference have had strong runs this year does not diminish the Big East. Again, the NCAA's overseeding of GU was illusory. 6. All in all, it was an exciting and enjoyable season. We have great reason for optimism going into the 2015-2016 season; I look forward to seeing what Jessie Govan and Marcus Derrickson bring to the Hilltop. I look forward to seeing whether Akoi Agau can make a contribution once he is eligible. I look forward to seeing continued growth from the returning players. We have every reason to expect more from this group next year. From my perspective, it's time to stop looking back, and begin looking ahead. Amen, plus the following: -- Here's a bit of trivia for you. You know who this board was pushing as a replacement for Esh? Joe Scott, who was coaching Air Force at the time. He eventually replaced JTIII at Princeton, stayed two years (posting a sterling 11-19 record in year two), then hopped the first train to the University of Denver. Fran Dunphy's name was also thrown around -- he's done okay at Temple but there is no reason to believe he would have done better than JTIII at Georgetown. The idea that the grass is always greener is wrong -- ask Seton Hall, St. John's, Boston College etc. Look how long Providence struggled before Cooley got there. There are many more examples of this throughout Division I. -- The glory years have long been over -- Pops achieved his success during a much different time, when fewer teams could legitimately compete with him in TV exposure and recruiting. To a HS hotshot, GU has no meaningful athletic culture outside of basketball, a lousy off-campus home arena, so-so student support, and antiquated practice facilities (although the new athletic center should change that). In all of those respects, GU is really no different than DePaul. Perhaps we should feel fortunate that the program has done as well as it has. This is not "settling" - it is acknowledging facts over which the basketball team has had little or no control. -- The academics/"recruiting the right people" issue is real. Teams historically considered to be GU's rivals or in the tier to which people on this board believe GU should aspire are bigtime violators of NCAA rules (Connecticut, Syracuse, apparently North Carolina) or otherwise appear to turn their eyes away from uncomfortable situations (St. John's and Duke, among others). GU learned its lesson with Michael Graham, and to my knowledge that experience has not been repeated in the thirty years since. Anyone who thinks this has nothing to do with why some programs do better than others isn't paying attention. It ain't perfect, but it ain't bad either. Deal with it. Amen, I say again, Amen. To both of you. The only thing I would add is what my wife, a much wiser person than I, always reminds me: they are 18-19-20 year old young men. All of us, at 18-19-20, made less than perfect decisions, and we weren't under the glare of a million watts of TV lights. I am proud that our small but loyal (fanatical?) fan base supports the program JT3 and President DeGioia carefully shepherd. I believe our program represents us (students, alumni, and especially our values). Yes, I want to win. But, generally, we do.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Mar 23, 2015 10:36:29 GMT -5
On Utah, they're just really good. A level above us this year. But I'm still disappointed. Sweet 16 was completely possible for this team and we fell short. We get a different draw, we very well could have been playing this week.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 23, 2015 11:26:09 GMT -5
On Utah, they're just really good. A level above us this year. But I'm still disappointed. Sweet 16 was completely possible for this team and we fell short. We get a different draw, we very well could have been playing this week. Respectfully disagree. I am NOT impressed by Utah and really feel that the Hoyas were deserving of their seed and lost to an inferior team- but one that just outplayed them that night, not one that was inherently superior. The one moment that infuriated me most was the bogus travel call on DSR (watch the replay- he jerked his upper body but did not move his pivot foot) and JT III's weak reaction to that (an assistant should have had to restrain him). I would like to see some more emotion from the bench when we get robbed like that. Otherwise, we had a good game plan but failed to execute in the second half.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 23, 2015 11:49:37 GMT -5
On Utah, they're just really good. A level above us this year. But I'm still disappointed. Sweet 16 was completely possible for this team and we fell short. We get a different draw, we very well could have been playing this week. Respectfully disagree. I am NOT impressed by Utah and really feel that the Hoyas were deserving of their seed and lost to an inferior team- but one that just outplayed them that night, not one that was inherently superior. The one moment that infuriated me most was the bogus travel call on DSR (watch the replay- he jerked his upper body but did not move his pivot foot) and JT III's weak reaction to that (an assistant should have had to restrain him). I would like to see some more emotion from the bench when we get robbed like that. Otherwise, we had a good game plan but failed to execute in the second half. You can disagree all you want but Utah was ranked ahead of us all year by most accounts. We may have had a higher ceiling but we never quite got there except the one game against Nova. I also really don't get why people put so much emphasis on a coach's reaction. Mark Turgeon absolutely lost it on a foul call yesterday, didn't seem to help his team too much. Had III gotten a T, the game would have been even that much further out of reach from the 5 points they would have undoubtedly scored with 2 FTs and the ball.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 23, 2015 12:51:08 GMT -5
Respectfully disagree. I am NOT impressed by Utah and really feel that the Hoyas were deserving of their seed and lost to an inferior team- but one that just outplayed them that night, not one that was inherently superior. The one moment that infuriated me most was the bogus travel call on DSR (watch the replay- he jerked his upper body but did not move his pivot foot) and JT III's weak reaction to that (an assistant should have had to restrain him). I would like to see some more emotion from the bench when we get robbed like that. Otherwise, we had a good game plan but failed to execute in the second half. You can disagree all you want but Utah was ranked ahead of us all year by most accounts. We may have had a higher ceiling but we never quite got there except the one game against Nova. I also really don't get why people put so much emphasis on a coach's reaction. Mark Turgeon absolutely lost it on a foul call yesterday, didn't seem to help his team too much. Had III gotten a T, the game would have been even that much further out of reach from the 5 points they would have undoubtedly scored with 2 FTs and the ball. Would've been up two possession even if they made both FTs btw. And if that fires us up, there's enough time to clinically come back, just sayin, even though I agree with your premise
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 23, 2015 13:03:51 GMT -5
Amen, plus the following: -- Here's a bit of trivia for you. You know who this board was pushing as a replacement for Esh? Joe Scott, who was coaching Air Force at the time. He eventually replaced JTIII at Princeton, stayed two years (posting a sterling 11-19 record in year two), then hopped the first train to the University of Denver. Fran Dunphy's name was also thrown around -- he's done okay at Temple but there is no reason to believe he would have done better than JTIII at Georgetown. The idea that the grass is always greener is wrong -- ask Seton Hall, St. John's, Boston College etc. Look how long Providence struggled before Cooley got there. There are many more examples of this throughout Division I. The board was not "pushing" for Joe Scott and Dunphy. Rather, the board reported (correctly) that each was contacted by the University during the search.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 23, 2015 13:05:46 GMT -5
General Thoughts: - Utah is probably better than us. They played better than us yesterday, and better than us, on average, all season. They made some really tough plays down the stretch and we didn't. They kept us from getting easy shots as well.
- That said, I would have really liked our team and especially our seniors, to go out completely on their own terms. That four call sequence -- the DSR "travel", the Trawick "block", the weird 1 and 1 and not two shot foul on Smith (when they had already gifted a weird should-have-been-on-the-floor-but-call-it-shooting earlier in the game to Utah, and then the 50/50 blocking foul on Trawick -- basically killed our chances. We went from perhaps one or two down to seven with very little time left.
- That's when our players made plays, like they did, but the refs took it out of their hands. It sucks to see someone like Trawick, who worked so hard, actually MAKE the play and get robbed because the refs are sloppy or out of position.
- I had a lot of fun watching this team this year despite the frustrations. It's true that if Josh could have lost more weight, or if he wouldn't be so idiotic in his fouls, we'd have been better. It's true that if Hopkins could just convert the easy shots, we'd have been much better. It's true that if we were a more consistent shooting team -- from layups to threes, we'd have been much better. It's true that if quite a few members of the team could stop fouling all the time, we'd be better. But all that said, we were around the 25th best team in the country. I find it hard to complain about that. It was a weird season -- few big wins, almost no bad losses. But I enjoyed much of it, and it's really hard to complain too much.
- I've been posting less and less, mostly because this board has become miserable. Just a ton of people posting the same old complaints, as if off a template, with no backup. How intolerable a person do you have to be to post a massive complaint thread after a NCAA win? Or just not post at all for several weeks only to come on after a loss with the same drivel you've been posting for ten years? I find myself spending more time at casual or just away from Georgetown fans because there are just too many people here who are miserable -- who simply cannot appreciate anything good or happy. Who are too invested in their personal crusade to ever enjoy a win or see that perhaps it isn't right.
- And even though this hasn't been a tourney for upsets so far, but I have to question anyone who doesn't realize that single-elimination tournaments are inherently more of a crapshoot AND there's a huge amount of parity except for maybe the top 2-3 teams in college basketball. UCLA, of all teams, has now made it farther than not only us, but Villanova, UVA, Iowa State and Baylor. Does anyone really think they are a better team? That Steve Alford is somehow magical? The level of critical thinking on this board sometimes stuns me.
- Thanks so much to the senior class. I was very hard on Hopkins for a long time, but he had a very nice run at the end of his senior year. Trawick had a HELLUVA senior year. Bowen worked his way into a valuable contributor. Tyler Adams might be the best teammate ever, all things considered. Josh Smith proved a lot of people wrong and frankly, this team doesn't make the tournament without him. Best of luck to all of them!
Great post. Agree with all of it.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 23, 2015 13:29:56 GMT -5
On Utah, they're just really good. A level above us this year. But I'm still disappointed. Sweet 16 was completely possible for this team and we fell short. We get a different draw, we very well could have been playing this week. Respectfully disagree. I am NOT impressed by Utah and really feel that the Hoyas were deserving of their seed and lost to an inferior team- but one that just outplayed them that night, not one that was inherently superior. The one moment that infuriated me most was the bogus travel call on DSR (watch the replay- he jerked his upper body but did not move his pivot foot) and JT III's weak reaction to that (an assistant should have had to restrain him). I would like to see some more emotion from the bench when we get robbed like that. Otherwise, we had a good game plan but failed to execute in the second half. 1. Are we really going to discuss how strongly JT3 did or did not react? Do you happen to see if anyone was smiling? 2. If JT3 showed more emotion "when we get robbed like that," would that have made a difference in that specific game? You obviously think so, because you state that but for JT3's lack of emotion, "we had a good game plan[.]" 3. Your assertion is simply wrong. He did have a very strong reaction. Trust me, I was just a few rows back and saw the whole thing. Plus, go back and watch the videotape and you'll see evidence contrary to your claim.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 23, 2015 13:36:39 GMT -5
I have watched the video of the play and of III's reaction and am very confident in my position. Agree to disagree.
Look, I am hardly slamming III, given that I cited that one moment as the only thing I take issue with. I praised his game plan, and just to clarify if I caused any confusion, believe that he coached a fine game.
I would like to see III be more demonstrative at times, but that is just my preference. I think that we could have stolen a few calls down the stretch if we made a bigger deal of getting such a raw deal on that critical play, but who knows. Again, that was my only issue.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 23, 2015 13:38:53 GMT -5
I have watched the video of the play and of III's reaction and am very confident in my position. Agree to disagree. Look, I am hardly slamming III, given that I cited that one moment as the only thing I take issue with. I praised his game plan, and just to clarify if I caused any confusion, believe that he coached a fine game. I would like to see III be more demonstrative at times, but that is just my preference. I think that we could have stolen a few calls down the stretch if we made a bigger deal of getting such a raw deal on that critical play, but who knows. Again, that was my only issue. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were at the game and saw more than the 3 seconds shown by CBS. Where were your seats?
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 23, 2015 14:27:37 GMT -5
I have watched the video of the play and of III's reaction and am very confident in my position. Agree to disagree. Look, I am hardly slamming III, given that I cited that one moment as the only thing I take issue with. I praised his game plan, and just to clarify if I caused any confusion, believe that he coached a fine game. I would like to see III be more demonstrative at times, but that is just my preference. I think that we could have stolen a few calls down the stretch if we made a bigger deal of getting such a raw deal on that critical play, but who knows. Again, that was my only issue. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were at the game and saw more than the 3 seconds shown by CBS. Where were your seats? Nobody has gotten more run out of being in Portland than our guy Larry.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 23, 2015 16:01:15 GMT -5
I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were at the game and saw more than the 3 seconds shown by CBS. Where were your seats? Nobody has gotten more run out of being in Portland than our guy Larry. Not trying to be that guy, but if he's going to be a Edited and make a stupid point, I'll call him out on it.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 23, 2015 18:02:40 GMT -5
I have never understood the III is too passive argument. From what I've seen, it's just not true.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 23, 2015 18:55:00 GMT -5
Can someone tell me why shots of the UTAH coach were shown about 100 times to virtually none for JT3? I noticed it early on and then really noticed it. It was like there was only one coach in the building that game. GU must have coached themselves. That kind of thing doesn't "just happen". A decision was made. Not right.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Mar 23, 2015 19:03:00 GMT -5
WaPo's Thomas Boswell's take on the weekend:
It wasn't a good weekend for classy gentlemen coaches -- the kind I'd like to see at an institution that represented me -- Tony Bennett, John Thompson III and Mark Turgeon. Too bad. I'd prefer that people/coaches like that succeed, rather than Calipari, Huggins, Pitino.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 24, 2015 10:32:39 GMT -5
On Utah, they're just really good. A level above us this year. But I'm still disappointed. Sweet 16 was completely possible for this team and we fell short. We get a different draw, we very well could have been playing this week. Respectfully disagree. I am NOT impressed by Utah and really feel that the Hoyas were deserving of their seed and lost to an inferior team- but one that just outplayed them that night, not one that was inherently superior. The one moment that infuriated me most was the bogus travel call on DSR (watch the replay- he jerked his upper body but did not move his pivot foot) and JT III's weak reaction to that (an assistant should have had to restrain him). I would like to see some more emotion from the bench when we get robbed like that. Otherwise, we had a good game plan but failed to execute in the second half. I'm with you Hoyalove. It seems like the fanbase wants to make Utah better than they are to feel better about the loss. We should have won the game. Once again our star player didn't come up big when we needed him the most. In order to win in the tourney you need two players to play at a high level each game. DSR has to be one of our two for us to go far in a tournament.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 24, 2015 11:06:24 GMT -5
Respectfully disagree. I am NOT impressed by Utah and really feel that the Hoyas were deserving of their seed and lost to an inferior team- but one that just outplayed them that night, not one that was inherently superior. The one moment that infuriated me most was the bogus travel call on DSR (watch the replay- he jerked his upper body but did not move his pivot foot) and JT III's weak reaction to that (an assistant should have had to restrain him). I would like to see some more emotion from the bench when we get robbed like that. Otherwise, we had a good game plan but failed to execute in the second half. I'm with you Hoyalove. It seems like the fanbase wants to make Utah better than they are to feel better about the loss. We should have won the game. Once again our star player didn't come up big when we needed him the most. In order to win in the tourney you need two players to play at a high level each game. DSR has to be one of our two for us to go far in a tournament. Vegas, RPI, and the year-long rankings disagree. Not that they are the be-all-and-end-all, but what do you have to support your position that we were the better team and should have won?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 24, 2015 11:09:57 GMT -5
Respectfully disagree. I am NOT impressed by Utah and really feel that the Hoyas were deserving of their seed and lost to an inferior team- but one that just outplayed them that night, not one that was inherently superior. The one moment that infuriated me most was the bogus travel call on DSR (watch the replay- he jerked his upper body but did not move his pivot foot) and JT III's weak reaction to that (an assistant should have had to restrain him). I would like to see some more emotion from the bench when we get robbed like that. Otherwise, we had a good game plan but failed to execute in the second half. I'm with you Hoyalove. It seems like the fanbase wants to make Utah better than they are to feel better about the loss. We should have won the game. Once again our star player didn't come up big when we needed him the most. In order to win in the tourney you need two players to play at a high level each game. DSR has to be one of our two for us to go far in a tournament. Why "should we have won the game"? Is it because "our star player didn't come up big"? I agree that the reason we lost was primarily because DSR didn't have a great game, but that's almost entirely because of the issues that Utah presented. It just so happens that THEIR star player plays the same position as our star and is able to defend him in the one way that has been successful against DSR in the past (both size and speed). Not many teams have a guy that can do that, but they do. And outside of that, they obviously shoot the three exceedingly well and have a legitimate post presence that (at a minimum) matches ours.
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