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Post by professorhoya on Mar 8, 2015 16:02:32 GMT -5
In the words of rockhoya... +1000 +1001, and I am sure there are more. the original post sums it about it. worse yet the backlash is full of spite, literalism that takes certain points or analogies out of context to the farthest corner of the room to be used for their own agendas and ignorance about the sport(s) people profess to know so well.... Well when you say things like "end of story" the tone of that comes across as full of spite would you not agree. It's rather provocative so I can see how people would take exception to that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 16:06:25 GMT -5
This is silly. There are a ton of other examples, so no not that rare. I can keep posting links if you'd like
There will never be an exact replica situation because the games are different. but the underlying principle remains the same: maintain a competitive balance.
Honestly, I've had enough of this nitpicking. You (and everyone else) can win the argument now for all i care.
God forbid the Hoyas lose in the first round this year -- and I actually think they will win a game this year -- and you have to deal with the real anti-JT3 mafia...
p.s. end of story is spiteful to you? it just signals that it's something i think they should have done, no excuses, and there are no arguments that would change my mind to me...
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 8, 2015 16:12:30 GMT -5
This is idiotic. There are a ton of other examples, so no not that rare. I can keep posting links if you'd like There will never be an exact replica situation because the games are different. but the underlying principle remains the same: maintain a competitive balance. Honestly, I've had enough of this nitpicking. You (and everyone else) can win the argument now for all i care. God forbid the Hoyas lose in the first round this year -- and I actually think they will win a game this year -- and you have to deal with the real anti-JT3 mafia... It just shouldn't be a big deal either way on Tyler's moment. Yet this discussion seems to have been going on for pages since yesterday. I was tired of seeing it. My only point is that it shouldn't be this big outrage of unsportsmanlike conduct when it was such a insignificant part of the game. At least we've agreed to move on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 16:20:32 GMT -5
This is idiotic. There are a ton of other examples, so no not that rare. I can keep posting links if you'd like There will never be an exact replica situation because the games are different. but the underlying principle remains the same: maintain a competitive balance. Honestly, I've had enough of this nitpicking. You (and everyone else) can win the argument now for all i care. God forbid the Hoyas lose in the first round this year -- and I actually think they will win a game this year -- and you have to deal with the real anti-JT3 mafia... It just shouldn't be a big deal either way on Tyler's moment. Yet this discussion seems to have been going on for pages since yesterday. I was tired of seeing it. My only point is that it shouldn't be this big outrage of unsportsmanlike conduct. Yes, I changed it immediately after to try to tamp things down-- thanks for bringing it back up being the muckracker you are. But since we're here, yes, it was idiotic to try to draw a literal parallel between sports and then to nitpick the example provided. (And wrongly suggest the example was so so rare that it only took me 5 seconds to find a boatload of youtube videos for it.) And further to say that i was somehow spiteful for saying the decision by jt3 should have been made "end of story." Do you not know that is a normally used expression? No, the whole initial analogy with soccer was to say that every sport has a code of sportsmanship and basketball is no different. There is never an exact precedent for this kind of thing but that intuitive sense should tell you it's the fair thing to do. I even gave him some wiggle room as NOBODY here knows the exact details of what went down between JT3-Willard. Instead posters come back with "admit it you're wrong", "you're the only one interested", "you have an axe to grind"....etc... But I guess that's the situation posters here find themselves when they dare question JT3. Man, as somebody who has generally defended him on all the big things, it really is crazy to see how it looks from the other side...
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 8, 2015 16:24:19 GMT -5
It just shouldn't be a big deal either way on Tyler's moment. Yet this discussion seems to have been going on for pages since yesterday. I was tired of seeing it. My only point is that it shouldn't be this big outrage of unsportsmanlike conduct. Yes, I changed it immediately after to try to tamp things down-- thanks for bringing it back up being the muckracker you are. But since we're here, yes, it was idiotic to try to draw a literal parallel between sports and then to nitpick the example provided. (And wrongly suggest the example was so so rare that it only took me 5 seconds to find a boatload of youtube videos for it.) And further to say that i was somehow spiteful for saying the decision by jt3 should have been made "end of story." Do you not know that is a normally used expression? No, the whole initial analogy with soccer was to say that every sport has a code of sportsmanship and basketball is no different. There is never an exact precedent for this kind of thing but that intuitive sense should tell you it's the fair thing to do. I even gave him some wiggle room as NOBODY here knows the exact details of what went down between JT3-Willard. Instead posters come back with "admit it you're wrong", "you're the only one interested", "you have an axe to grind"....etc... But I guess that's the situation posters here find themselves when they dare question JT3. Man, as somebody who has generally defended him on all the big things, it really is crazy to see how it looks from the other side... I said I was done with it in the last post, I thought you were too. Not sure why you are trying to make it personal.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Mar 8, 2015 16:30:48 GMT -5
I thought III should have simply accepted Willard's pregame offer. According to Willard, he essentially said "Hey I want to give Tyler the moment he deserves here, but I don't want to give you guys free points, so let's exchange baskets, ok?"
III said no, which forces Willard to either give up the free points anyway, or play it out and risk having Tyler's moment be a missed shot, or a turnover, or having his shot blocked or something. If you want to argue that Willard's gesture was showing up Tyler, then that's fine. But it doesn't seem like III or most fans saw it that way given all of the praise of Willard's gesture.
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Post by grandmahoya on Mar 8, 2015 16:31:21 GMT -5
The really big picture here is that Tyler had a special moment. Looking at the tears in his father's eyes was all one had to see. We don't know what was said between JTIII and Willard. What really matters was that one did a classy thing and one acknowledged how classy it was. A lesson in sportsmanship for all the players. Isn't that all that matters?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 16:32:39 GMT -5
Yes, I changed it immediately after to try to tamp things down-- thanks for bringing it back up being the muckracker you are. But since we're here, yes, it was idiotic to try to draw a literal parallel between sports and then to nitpick the example provided. (And wrongly suggest the example was so so rare that it only took me 5 seconds to find a boatload of youtube videos for it.) And further to say that i was somehow spiteful for saying the decision by jt3 should have been made "end of story." Do you not know that is a normally used expression? No, the whole initial analogy with soccer was to say that every sport has a code of sportsmanship and basketball is no different. There is never an exact precedent for this kind of thing but that intuitive sense should tell you it's the fair thing to do. I even gave him some wiggle room as NOBODY here knows the exact details of what went down between JT3-Willard. Instead posters come back with "admit it you're wrong", "you're the only one interested", "you have an axe to grind"....etc... But I guess that's the situation posters here find themselves when they dare question JT3. Man, as somebody who has generally defended him on all the big things, it really is crazy to see how it looks from the other side... I said I was done with it in the last post, I thought you were too. Not sure why you are trying to make it personal. Nothing personal about it but if I try to reign myself for the sake of civility by changing idiotic to silly and then you nonetheless post the original version and bold it, I'm not sure what that's trying to prove other than put me in a gotcha situation.... (and before you go counting minutes between edit and post, i edited more than once, but i changed that word immediately.) the one thing we can agree on is this has gone on long enough. no more posts on this thread from me....
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 8, 2015 16:44:29 GMT -5
III said no, which forces Willard to either give up the free points anyway, or play it out and risk having Tyler's moment be a missed shot, or a turnover, or having his shot blocked or something. If you want to argue that Willard's gesture was showing up Tyler, then that's fine. But it doesn't seem like III or most fans saw it that way given all of the praise of Willard's gesture. Who knows would have happened but I think if they had defended him and Tyler missed the first shot, that III would have kept him in for at least one more offensive possession. It wasn't really clear to me when they were going to take him out other than after he scored once. Regardless he finished the play with a dunk. It would have been quite embarrassing if he had missed the dunk or layup and then continued to try to shoot Charles Smith style (New York Knicks/Pitt guy) while everyone else stood around not playing defense or offense. That could have easily happened I imagine with all the nerves and emotion so I was so happy everything went perfectly and it was a magical moment.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 8, 2015 17:41:38 GMT -5
I was just shocked that Latavious joined the Charlie Daniels Band right before HoyaTalk jumped the shark.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 8, 2015 18:01:34 GMT -5
I was talking about the beer analogy. The object of your beer analogy was misplaced. And it's not call being unimaginative, it's called thinking about why those norms exist. In many instances, the scope of the pitch and pace of the game is such in soccer that recognizing and reciprocating those gestures is easier, not to mention you can't ignore that the sports are inherently different. I'm not saying that's they can't be applied, but you have to be conscious of the fact that the European influence in the sport, in regards to acts of respect, makes a difference. If Willard approaches you and proposes to you and you respectfully decline and he proceeds to go ahead and do it anyway out of the kindness of his own heart it would be rude to nullify that gesture, imo. Under regular conditions, yeah instinct tells you to reciprocate asap, but in this situation Tyler will appreciate it more knowing that Willard didn't expect any points back and you don't have to be in his head to know that it's called psychology. And who knows? Maybe III declined because he set up a nice play to get Tyler a legitimate bucket and was robbed of that? Water under the bridge at this point. as much as i'm tempted to just post "ok rock" i'll respond substantively.... you can't have it both ways. you can't say there are norms and then deny being unimaginative. you apply the norms from one to the other. frankly, the whole concept is not that different from a make-up foul call, which is only slightly different in context. you'll never be able to convince me that it couldn't have been an easy thing to prepare your team for to do on the first possession in case it happened. now, as i posted earlier, i agree willard may have surprised the hoyas by unilaterally going forward with his ideas. if so, you have to know the exact details of the conversation between him and jt3. when jt3 declined the offer did williard tell him "i'm gonna do it anyway?" i don't think we'll ever know. this gray area is why i think there is so leeway for the critique about the confusion that seemed to take place after the basket. and if indeed, that was the case, i still don't assume to know how tyler feels about it. maybe he would have preferred not to be the cause of a controversy had georgetown won by anything between 1-5 points, really. maybe he, as the ultimate ambassador of gtown, wanted to show that we payback kindness. it's not called psychology, it's called perspective (difference of). Did you miss Willard's comment and its importance entirely??
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 8, 2015 18:02:10 GMT -5
I was talking about the beer analogy. The object of your beer analogy was misplaced. And it's not call being unimaginative, it's called thinking about why those norms exist. In many instances, the scope of the pitch and pace of the game is such in soccer that recognizing and reciprocating those gestures is easier, not to mention you can't ignore that the sports are inherently different. I'm not saying that's they can't be applied, but you have to be conscious of the fact that the European influence in the sport, in regards to acts of respect, makes a difference. If Willard approaches you and proposes to you and you respectfully decline and he proceeds to go ahead and do it anyway out of the kindness of his own heart it would be rude to nullify that gesture, imo. Under regular conditions, yeah instinct tells you to reciprocate asap, but in this situation Tyler will appreciate it more knowing that Willard didn't expect any points back and you don't have to be in his head to know that it's called psychology. And who knows? Maybe III declined because he set up a nice play to get Tyler a legitimate bucket and was robbed of that? Water under the bridge at this point. as much as i'm tempted to just post "ok rock" i'll respond substantively.... you can't have it both ways. you can't say there are norms and then deny being unimaginative. you apply the norms from one to the other. frankly, the whole concept is not that different from a make-up foul call, which is only slightly different in context. you'll never be able to convince me that it couldn't have been an easy thing to prepare your team for to do on the first possession in case it happened. now, as i posted earlier, i agree willard may have surprised the hoyas by unilaterally going forward with his ideas. if so, you have to know the exact details of the conversation between him and jt3. when jt3 declined the offer did williard tell him "i'm gonna do it anyway?" i don't think we'll ever know. this gray area is why i think there is so leeway for the critique about the confusion that seemed to take place after the basket. and if indeed, that was the case, i still don't assume to know how tyler feels about it. maybe he would have preferred not to be the cause of a controversy had georgetown won by anything between 1-5 points, really. maybe he, as the ultimate ambassador of gtown, wanted to show that we payback kindness. it's not called psychology, it's called perspective (difference of). Ok Denny....
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Mar 8, 2015 18:24:00 GMT -5
You're just a shill for Nike I'm mostly an underarmour guy and I liked the jerseys. Just felt like throwing this post from Page 17(!) up here, because it's the most recent one that isn't somehow related to the Great Hoyatalk Debate on Reciprocity in Donated Baskets of 2015. I'd buy one of those throwbacks right now FWIW...and I confess to liking them every so slightly more knowing that DFW appears to hate them.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 8, 2015 19:09:50 GMT -5
I thought III should have simply accepted Willard's pregame offer. According to Willard, he essentially said "Hey I want to give Tyler the moment he deserves here, but I don't want to give you guys free points, so let's exchange baskets, ok?" III said no, which forces Willard to either give up the free points anyway, or play it out and risk having Tyler's moment be a missed shot, or a turnover, or having his shot blocked or something. If you want to argue that Willard's gesture was showing up Tyler, then that's fine. But it doesn't seem like III or most fans saw it that way given all of the praise of Willard's gesture. I am gonna bet that Tyler would have been fine with that "risk" - and would likely have preferred that outcome to being treated like the handicapped student manager who is put in at the end of the last game and given the open path for a layup. Did you ever think that, as professor said, maybe what Tyler REALLY wanted was to feel like a real basketball player for 30 or 60 seconds, to bang a little for position, to try to make a basketball move to the rim against a defense. I realize what Willard was doing, and that it was a kind gesture, but I immediately thought it was the wrong way to go, and felt a little twinge of discomfort. That said, I felt a similar twinge that we did not reciprocate, although knowing now that JTIII had asked Willard not to do it, it would have been awkward to have to yell out to his players to let them score. And do not entirely discount the fact that Tyler intentionally fouled (I am pretty sure that Tre - the ONLY guy who was pressuring - was supposed to, but did not right away so III told Tyler to foul). Have we played a half this year without fouling over the limit - maybe even the double bonus? So by intentionally fouling, we guaranteed Hall an extra 1-and-1 if not 2 shots at some point. Not a direct corollary, but still free potential 2 points. As for Bril - yeah if it was any other game it is a problem, but his last, very emotional home game, plus having led the team to a hard-fought win with its best player unexpectedly unavailable? It was just a giant emotional release. Not a problem at all. And I would almost bet that Bril will still convey an apology to Willard. Possibly III as well, if not already done.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 8, 2015 19:36:59 GMT -5
I'd buy one of those throwbacks right now FWIW...and I confess to liking them every so slightly more knowing that DFW appears to hate them. Aww, you should no better than that. The amount of posts who make claim on this boards about what I "appear" to say is somewhere less than the number of posts on ballroom dancing or asking when Latavious Williams is coming to Georgetown...but not by much. So here's what I will say about it: a clean look, but not a throwback to any specific Georgetown jersey by font or number style. All well and good, but it is not the 1992-93 jersey, the 1982-83 jersey, or even the 1972-73 jersey Thompson used for one season:</P> My point: great sports brands don't need to change its look. The Yankee pinstripes are powerful because it's lasted from Gehrig to Jeter. So too to Dodger Blue, Cardinal Red, and the classic look of the Red Sox (excepting those mid-70's pullovers). Teams without a tradition like the Astros, Brewers and Padres seem to change their look like clockwork. Celtic green and Laker gold are intangible assets of those franchises (as opposed to, say, the Denver Nuggets). Would anyone want Les Habitants to change sweaters every two years? In college ball, Carolina has had three basic jersey styles since the mid-1950's. The look at Indiana and UCLA are timeless--excepting a few years when UCLA wore "BRUINS" across its jersey, the UCLA blue and gold looks a lot like it would if Alcindor and Walton were still around. And yet, not counting one-offs, Georgetown has had 17 different jersey changes in 33 years (the current look is a mirror of the unis from two years ago). Ewing, Mourning, Iverson, Sweetney, Hibbert...none wore the same jersey style. www.hoyabasketball.com/history/jerseys.htm So yes, it would have been something if Georgetown could have stayed with the classic Ewing look. But it didn't happen, and that's life. Saturday's jersey? No problem for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 1:37:34 GMT -5
as much as i'm tempted to just post "ok rock" i'll respond substantively.... you can't have it both ways. you can't say there are norms and then deny being unimaginative. you apply the norms from one to the other. frankly, the whole concept is not that different from a make-up foul call, which is only slightly different in context. you'll never be able to convince me that it couldn't have been an easy thing to prepare your team for to do on the first possession in case it happened. now, as i posted earlier, i agree willard may have surprised the hoyas by unilaterally going forward with his ideas. if so, you have to know the exact details of the conversation between him and jt3. when jt3 declined the offer did williard tell him "i'm gonna do it anyway?" i don't think we'll ever know. this gray area is why i think there is so leeway for the critique about the confusion that seemed to take place after the basket. and if indeed, that was the case, i still don't assume to know how tyler feels about it. maybe he would have preferred not to be the cause of a controversy had georgetown won by anything between 1-5 points, really. maybe he, as the ultimate ambassador of gtown, wanted to show that we payback kindness. it's not called psychology, it's called perspective (difference of). Ok Denny.... Haha, you're too predictable
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 9, 2015 2:33:36 GMT -5
Haha, you're too predictable "No more posts on this thread from me" Why do you keep lying?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 7:40:33 GMT -5
Haha, you're too predictable "No more posts on this thread from me" Why do you keep lying? i enjoy lying on basketball message boards in my spare time kchoya. why do you keep exhibiting psychological problems?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 9, 2015 7:55:20 GMT -5
"No more posts on this thread from me" Why do you keep lying? i enjoy lying on basketball message boards in my spare time kchoya. why do you keep exhibiting psychological problems? MODS: Time to lock up this thread! Sheesh!
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Post by strummer8526 on Mar 9, 2015 8:05:59 GMT -5
Let me get this straight: We won on Saturday in a hard-fought game without our best player. We got outstanding play from a couple of seniors and a freshman who is quickly establishing himself as a real player at one of our weakest positions. Another one of our seniors got a heartwarming send-off that (1) went off perfectly, (2) had the entire arena elated, and (3) has gotten us and Seton Hall some much-deserved good press. Thanks to the outcome of a separate game--which ended at basically the same time as our game, only increasing the excitement--we got the #2 seed in the BET.
And this thread now has embedded soccer clips posted to demonstrate a perceived lack of sportsmanship from the first 10 seconds of the game? And that's not even the same discussion as the debate about whether it was appropriate for a senior to dunk the ball in the last 10 seconds of the game?
I'm not sure what's more mind-boggling: the sad evolution of this thread or Jerrelle Benimon getting an NBA contract.
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