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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 5, 2015 13:59:02 GMT -5
Why did we stop pressing in the 2nd half?? It was giving them fits in the first half. We got out-coached. Just my opinion, don't shoot me people, but I think the sample size is large enough at this point. III hasn't had a team (excluding his 1st season) that has played above its collective talent. We under perform or play to our talent (only to get embarrassed come tournament time.) This team is too damn talented to get swept by Xavier and Providence. So frustrating. And yes people, yes. I know. III is the best we can do and he isn't going anywhere. I am just out of excuses trying to defend him. I won't shoot you. But I will submit for your consideration that we were in significant foul trouble after the first half, particularly in the backcourt (DSR, Jabril, Paul, and Tre all had two fouls, and Peak had 3). So, from that perspective, it's probably sensible to not press. It's fair to ask about pressing toward the end of the game when those key players weren't in significant foul trouble anymore. But, generally speaking, I don't think it was a huge mistake. There may have been other issues: substitutions, timeouts, etc., but I don't think the press was one of them. As for talent level, well, I think we actually played way, way above our talent level two years ago, in winning the BE title. And the year where Henry Sims and Jason Clark led us to a top ten ranking with very little other help. If anything, I think we've had out-sized regular season success (and BET success), which leads to seeds that don't really reflect our talent level and hastens our disappointment. Just my .02.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 5, 2015 14:03:49 GMT -5
Why did we stop pressing in the 2nd half?? It was giving them fits in the first half. We got out-coached. Just my opinion, don't shoot me people, but I think the sample size is large enough at this point. III hasn't had a team (excluding his 1st season) that has played above its collective talent. We under perform or play to our talent (only to get embarrassed come tournament time.) This team is too damn talented to get swept by Xavier and Providence. So frustrating. And yes people, yes. I know. III is the best we can do and he isn't going anywhere. I am just out of excuses trying to defend him. I won't shoot you. But I will submit for your consideration that we were in significant foul trouble after the first half, particularly in the backcourt (DSR, Jabril, Paul, and Tre all had two fouls, and Peak had 3). So, from that perspective, it's probably sensible to not press. It's fair to ask about pressing toward the end of the game when those key players weren't in significant foul trouble anymore. But, generally speaking, I don't think it was a huge mistake. There may have been other issues: substitutions, timeouts, etc., but I don't think the press was one of them. As for talent level, well, I think we actually played way, way above our talent level two years ago, in winning the BE title. And the year where Henry Sims and Jason Clark led us to a top ten ranking with very little other help. If anything, I think we've had out-sized regular season success (and BET success), which leads to seeds that don't really reflect our talent level and hastens our disappointment. Just my .02. Wow, it is like we read each others minds. This idea we do not play to our talent level is crazy. We have done just the opposite far too many times, which results in the inflated seeds in March and the resulting disappointment.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 5, 2015 14:07:42 GMT -5
Why did we stop pressing in the 2nd half?? It was giving them fits in the first half. We got out-coached. Just my opinion, don't shoot me people, but I think the sample size is large enough at this point. III hasn't had a team (excluding his 1st season) that has played above its collective talent. We under perform or play to our talent (only to get embarrassed come tournament time.) This team is too damn talented to get swept by Xavier and Providence. So frustrating. And yes people, yes. I know. III is the best we can do and he isn't going anywhere. I am just out of excuses trying to defend him. I won't shoot you. But I will submit for your consideration that we were in significant foul trouble after the first half, particularly in the backcourt (DSR, Jabril, Paul, and Tre all had two fouls, and Peak had 3). So, from that perspective, it's probably sensible to not press. It's fair to ask about pressing toward the end of the game when those key players weren't in significant foul trouble anymore. But, generally speaking, I don't think it was a huge mistake. There may have been other issues: substitutions, timeouts, etc., but I don't think the press was one of them. As for talent level, well, I think we actually played way, way above our talent level two years ago, in winning the BE title. And the year where Henry Sims and Jason Clark led us to a top ten ranking with very little other help. If anything, I think we've had out-sized regular season success (and BET success), which leads to seeds that don't really reflect our talent level and hastens our disappointment. Just my .02. That team had Hollis, Markel, Otto & Whittington on it.. I don't agree with the OP premise of underachievement either but that team was pretty talented especially when you look at it in hindsight..
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 5, 2015 14:12:50 GMT -5
I won't shoot you. But I will submit for your consideration that we were in significant foul trouble after the first half, particularly in the backcourt (DSR, Jabril, Paul, and Tre all had two fouls, and Peak had 3). So, from that perspective, it's probably sensible to not press. It's fair to ask about pressing toward the end of the game when those key players weren't in significant foul trouble anymore. But, generally speaking, I don't think it was a huge mistake. There may have been other issues: substitutions, timeouts, etc., but I don't think the press was one of them. As for talent level, well, I think we actually played way, way above our talent level two years ago, in winning the BE title. And the year where Henry Sims and Jason Clark led us to a top ten ranking with very little other help. If anything, I think we've had out-sized regular season success (and BET success), which leads to seeds that don't really reflect our talent level and hastens our disappointment. Just my .02. Wow, it is like we read each others minds. This idea we do not play to our talent level is crazy. We have done just the opposite far too many times, which results in the inflated seeds in March and the resulting disappointment. I don't want to oversell the point. Hollis was on that 11-12 team, too (and so was a freshman Otto), so it wasn't truly Hank, Clark, and three nobodies. And I've always thought we under-performed the years that Monroe was on the team, but the conference was so difficult those years, and Monroe's sophomore year, we used a wild run to the BET final to end up with a much better seed than our overall season deserved. But, yes, I agree. In any event, it's somewhat of a silly argument: Coach K always has the best (or top five) talent. Does that mean that any year in which he doesn't reach the Final Four (or the Elite Eight) a disappointment?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 5, 2015 14:14:05 GMT -5
I won't shoot you. But I will submit for your consideration that we were in significant foul trouble after the first half, particularly in the backcourt (DSR, Jabril, Paul, and Tre all had two fouls, and Peak had 3). So, from that perspective, it's probably sensible to not press. It's fair to ask about pressing toward the end of the game when those key players weren't in significant foul trouble anymore. But, generally speaking, I don't think it was a huge mistake. There may have been other issues: substitutions, timeouts, etc., but I don't think the press was one of them. As for talent level, well, I think we actually played way, way above our talent level two years ago, in winning the BE title. And the year where Henry Sims and Jason Clark led us to a top ten ranking with very little other help. If anything, I think we've had out-sized regular season success (and BET success), which leads to seeds that don't really reflect our talent level and hastens our disappointment. Just my .02. That team had Hollis, Markel, Otto & Whittington on it.. I don't agree with the OP premise of underachievement either but that team was pretty talented especially when you look at it in hindsight.. Yup. Just posted to reflect that point, although none of those guys (except Hollis) were veteran players at that point.
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Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Feb 5, 2015 14:20:56 GMT -5
Great point on the foul trouble.
I can't agree with the Sims/ Clark team being a great coaching job.
Sims (sticking in the NBA) Clark (very good college guard) Thompson (sticking in the NBA) Porter (lottery pick the following season) Starks (good college guard) Whitiington (great defensive player/ played major mins as a freshman)
That team would beat this team by...25?
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Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Feb 5, 2015 14:23:34 GMT -5
"But, yes, I agree. In any event, it's somewhat of a silly argument: Coach K always has the best (or top five) talent. Does that mean that any year in which he doesn't reach the Final Four (or the Elite Eight) a disappointment?"
LOL guys I want to get out of the first weekend. No. I do not have Elite 8/ Final 4 expectations.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 5, 2015 14:58:06 GMT -5
Wow, it is like we read each others minds. This idea we do not play to our talent level is crazy. We have done just the opposite far too many times, which results in the inflated seeds in March and the resulting disappointment. I don't want to oversell the point. Hollis was on that 11-12 team, too (and so was a freshman Otto), so it wasn't truly Hank, Clark, and three nobodies. And I've always thought we under-performed the years that Monroe was on the team, but the conference was so difficult those years, and Monroe's sophomore year, we used a wild run to the BET final to end up with a much better seed than our overall season deserved. But, yes, I agree. In any event, it's somewhat of a silly argument: Coach K always has the best (or top five) talent. Does that mean that any year in which he doesn't reach the Final Four (or the Elite Eight) a disappointment? Plus Aleutian you forgot to mention that we lost AFree right before the BE tourney. AFree is still not the player that he was before his diabetes showed up. That team was firing on all cylinders offensively and I still contend that we would not have bowed out in the 1st round if AFree was healthy. Do you think Butler or Duke make the championship game without Singler or Heyward?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 5, 2015 18:59:33 GMT -5
Much has been made of the 3-on-1 3-pt shot by DSR. We forget that DSR has done that various times to success. It's something he does. No one would be complaining or talking/writing about it if he had made it. But, hindsight is 20/20. I agree that it's a bad shot selection in general, but when you have a player who likes that shot and is successful doing it, then it's part of his arsenal. I haven't seen another player this season do it, so I wouldn't want any other player taking that shot.
BTW, I didn't record the game so I don't know how the other players were positioned, but if it was a 3-on-1, why did we not get the rebound?
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 5, 2015 19:12:43 GMT -5
DSR took the shot from the left side, midway between the sideline and mid court. One Hoya was at the top of the lane, and another Hoya was on the right wing. Desrosiers was the lone Friar back, deep in the lane. The shot was short and bounced to the left; Desrosiers was in position, and no Hoya was within five feet of him.
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FLHoya
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Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 5, 2015 19:45:43 GMT -5
Plus Aleutian you forgot to mention that we lost AFree right before the BE tourney. AFree is still not the player that he was before his diabetes showed up. That team was firing on all cylinders offensively and I still contend that we would not have bowed out in the 1st round if AFree was healthy. Do you think Butler or Duke make the championship game without Singler or Heyward? That seems less compelling though when you consider Austin scored 24 the Saturday after he missed the WVU game when he was sick, then averaged double figures over our four BET games while playing 36+ minutes each time. (BTW, this is fun...I have no idea how the discussion arrived at Austin's diabetes, since I don't usually read far back in game threads. There's a fun Hoyatalk party game out there where you try to link a game thread to any random topic--the Georgetown gondola! Blake Esherick! Oingo Boingo!)
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 5, 2015 19:48:31 GMT -5
Much has been made of the 3-on-1 3-pt shot by DSR. We forget that DSR has done that various times to success. It's something he does. No one would be complaining or talking/writing about it if he had made it. But, hindsight is 20/20. I agree that it's a bad shot selection in general, but when you have a player who likes that shot and is successful doing it, then it's part of his arsenal. I haven't seen another player this season do it, so I wouldn't want any other player taking that shot. BTW, I didn't record the game so I don't know how the other players were positioned, but if it was a 3-on-1, why did we not get the rebound?It wasn't a horrible play considering that the 7 foot shot blocking center DeRosiers (averaging 3 blocks per game) was the 1 on the 3 on 1 and a 3pter has a good chance of caroming long. Rebound simply bounced short and the wrong way to DeRosiers who was sitting under the basket.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Feb 5, 2015 20:54:14 GMT -5
One field goal and seven turnovers in the final 11:46. That was an abomination. We should have beaten Providence twice, and instead we beat them zero times. Really, really poor.
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 5, 2015 23:54:53 GMT -5
The fact that we would even talk about what might happen if we go under .500 the rest of the way just proves that we're all bracing for the annual limp through February and collapse in March. It seems like ever since 2008, when JTIII and Jeff Green declared February to be Georgetown's month, it's been anything but.* *Yes, I realize we've had some very good February wins. But on the whole, it seems like this is the time of the year when we all--the players included--forget that they can hang with teams like Wisconsin and Kansas, and instead spend weeks struggling against teams like Seton Hall (or old BE stalwarts Rutgers and UCF). Jeff Green was in Seattle, Washington in 2008, and the University of Central Florida was never a BE stalwart. Jeff was at the Verizon Center for an away game and saw JTIII in the hallway. It was reported that they had a brief exchange about it being February and Georgetown's month. And no, Central Florida was never a BE stalwart, but (a) I was obviously being sarcastic, and (b) they still beat us.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Feb 6, 2015 0:36:32 GMT -5
Jeff Green was in Seattle, Washington in 2008, and the University of Central Florida was never a BE stalwart. Jeff was at the Verizon Center for an away game and saw JTIII in the hallway. It was reported that they had a brief exchange about it being February and Georgetown's month. And no, Central Florida was never a BE stalwart, but (a) I was obviously being sarcastic, and (b) they still beat us. On the Florida point, I think he was referring to the fact that the University of South Florida (USF), rather than the University of Central Florida (UCF), was the school in the BE. But we all knew what you meant.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 6, 2015 7:11:42 GMT -5
The fact that we would even talk about what might happen if we go under .500 the rest of the way just proves that we're all bracing for the annual limp through February and collapse in March. It seems like ever since 2008, when JTIII and Jeff Green declared February to be Georgetown's month, it's been anything but.* *Yes, I realize we've had some very good February wins. But on the whole, it seems like this is the time of the year when we all--the players included--forget that they can hang with teams like Wisconsin and Kansas, and instead spend weeks struggling against teams like Seton Hall (or old BE stalwarts Rutgers and UCF).[/quote] Ah yes, the annual "limp" through February: 05: 3-3 06: 5-2 07: 7-1 08: 6-2 09: 3-4 10: 3-4 11: 4-3 12: 6-2 13: 7-0 14: 5-3 49-24 going into this year. It's almost like those records are, ya know, mostly just reflective of the quality of that particular year's team. Better than some weird trend that we keep throwing out as a harbinger of a big run to come or proof of impending disaster like some lame Hoyatalk mood ring depending on how we feel about the most recent game.
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 6, 2015 7:23:32 GMT -5
Jeff was at the Verizon Center for an away game and saw JTIII in the hallway. It was reported that they had a brief exchange about it being February and Georgetown's month. And no, Central Florida was never a BE stalwart, but (a) I was obviously being sarcastic, and (b) they still beat us. On the Florida point, I think he was referring to the fact that the University of South Florida (USF), rather than the University of Central Florida (UCF), was the school in the BE. But we all knew what you meant. Oh, of course. "Central" felt wrong as I was typing it, but for some reason I didn't bother to check which "[General Location] Florida" school I was really talking about. Thanks for the reminder. If I recall correctly, Central was going to be added to the behemoth Big East before we got the hell out of there.
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 6, 2015 7:30:01 GMT -5
The fact that we would even talk about what might happen if we go under .500 the rest of the way just proves that we're all bracing for the annual limp through February and collapse in March. It seems like ever since 2008, when JTIII and Jeff Green declared February to be Georgetown's month, it's been anything but.* *Yes, I realize we've had some very good February wins. But on the whole, it seems like this is the time of the year when we all--the players included--forget that they can hang with teams like Wisconsin and Kansas, and instead spend weeks struggling against teams like Seton Hall (or old BE stalwarts Rutgers and UCF). Without doing any research of my own--because that's not my style--I'll suggest that those records, though not terrible in isolation, reflect more than a few disappointing losses given the very high quality wins that the teams picked up earlier in the season. In how many of those 6-2 (2), 3-4 (2), 4-3, 5-3 years did we have impressive OOC wins, only to lose very winnable games to mediocre competition in February? I'm not saying I'm giving up on this team. But I just think that we frequently head into the post-season on a downswing, rather than an up.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Feb 6, 2015 7:50:12 GMT -5
So my 2 cents is JT3 has weaknesses as a coach as all coaches do. JT3 biggest weakness is end game situations. I feel that his plays are awful.
My biggest issue was the only option was DSR. TRAWICK would not take the shot, everyone was looking towards one player and that's a huge problem. The strength of our team is balance. We have many talented players. Tre Campbell has made big shots as has Copland. It was one option or nothing and that's what Editeded me off and wi be our fatal flaw moving forward.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 6, 2015 8:18:43 GMT -5
I just want to chip in that the technical they called on Providence was one of the worst calls I have ever seen in any sport. That play was an obvious simple personal foul and NOTHING else. JT III should have told them not to waste their time going to the monitors, doing their little huddle, and all of the other garbage that happens in these situations. Of course the defensive player follows through on the block attempt at that point- it is the 100% correct play. There was nothing remotely dirty or malicious. It stinks that Jabril went down hard, but those are the breaks. Same thing would apply if Jabril had suffered a freak season-ending injury. Thank goodness that is not the case. Nonetheless, it was an awful, horrible, embarrassing call.
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