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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 5, 2015 9:55:18 GMT -5
The reality is that we lost a game to another team that will be in the NCAA tournament. Yes we lost at home--we have never had much of a home court advantage against the non-Cuse or non-Dukes of he world. Any use of the word "elite" should have been shelved in describing this team after the Xavier performance last week and probably earlier. It should be clear now that, notwithstanding what may have been suggested by the first two days in Atlantis, making the tournament this year is really the ultimate goal (as I think most of us would have agreed before the year started). Losing to a top 25 RPI team just doesn't really hurt this that much. Anyway, that tournament bid is still very much within reach, and we have lots of chances to get good wins that will help us (and really only 1 bad loss opportunity left vs. DePaul). We just need to get a bid, and we are still very well positioned to do that. Heck, our RPI dropped a whopping four spots last night (from 20 to 24). Do you know what our projected RPI is if we go 4-3 the rest of the way? 22. 3-4? 27. 2-5? 38. OK, so 2-5 would leave us sweating without at least a decent win in the BET (and we really have nothing to complain about if we really do go 2-5). But the point is that we need to take a deep breath (and an even deeper breath if Saturday doesn't go well) and find at least 3 more wins. 3-4 does the trick. They're certainly there for the taking.
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Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Buckets on Feb 5, 2015 10:09:39 GMT -5
How many times am I going to have to point out in this thread that III DID take a timeout during their late push, drew up a play to get DSR an open 3, and DSR hit it. It was our only FG in the final 11:00+. Can we get off the Editeding timeout issue? It has absolutely been a problem and he needed more than one TO during that stretch. There is no reason not to call another when the team is struggling. Yeah, we had three timeouts that we saved all until the final minute that we proceeded to use to set up on Providence's final possession where Smith decided to fight through the Desrosiers screen by putting a forearm to his neck, draw up the play that Peak couldn't get in bounds, and then take one home with us. Probably could have afforded to use another one during Providence's run.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Filo on Feb 5, 2015 10:11:36 GMT -5
Still beyond frustrating but it is worth noting that III did make some adjustments that helped - that switch the the 2-3 zone worked. Of course, as someone pointed out, probably should have switched back to man-to-man with Dunn out. Think that is a bit of hindsight, though. We might have had some stops but you can't adjust for completely idiotic fouls, like Ike's with no seconds left on the shot clock and basically all of Josh's.
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GUMBA
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 737
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Post by GUMBA on Feb 5, 2015 10:37:35 GMT -5
So they took a time out and drew up a play with a few ticks left on the clock where three Freshmen were on the same side of the court in-bounding the ball. LJ had the ball out of bounds, Copeland is closest to him and Tre is in the back court. The upperclassmen are on the other side of the court where an in-bounds pass/catch was impossible to make. I know we all have lots of faith in our Freshmen players but that was incredible. Tre was calling for a long pass into the back court but LJ either couldn't see it or didn't want to make the pass. So frustrating to watch.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 5, 2015 10:39:00 GMT -5
Yeah the senseless turnovers and silly, thoughtless fouls are the problems that resonate after last night.
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 5, 2015 10:41:18 GMT -5
The reality is that we lost a game to another team that will be in the NCAA tournament. Yes we lost at home--we have never had much of a home court advantage against the non-Cuse or non-Dukes of he world. Any use of the word "elite" should have been shelved in describing this team after the Xavier performance last week and probably earlier. It should be clear now that, notwithstanding what may have been suggested by the first two days in Atlantis, making the tournament this year is really the ultimate goal (as I think most of us would have agreed before the year started). Losing to a top 25 RPI team just doesn't really hurt this that much. Anyway, that tournament bid is still very much within reach, and we have lots of chances to get good wins that will help us (and really only 1 bad loss opportunity left vs. DePaul). We just need to get a bid, and we are still very well positioned to do that. Heck, our RPI dropped a whopping four spots last night (from 20 to 24). Do you know what our projected RPI is if we go 4-3 the rest of the way? 22. 3-4? 27. 2-5? 38. OK, so 2-5 would leave us sweating without at least a decent win in the BET (and we really have nothing to complain about if we really do go 2-5). But the point is that we need to take a deep breath (and an even deeper breath if Saturday doesn't go well) and find at least 3 more wins. 3-4 does the trick. They're certainly there for the taking. The fact that we would even talk about what might happen if we go under .500 the rest of the way just proves that we're all bracing for the annual limp through February and collapse in March. It seems like ever since 2008, when JTIII and Jeff Green declared February to be Georgetown's month, it's been anything but.* *Yes, I realize we've had some very good February wins. But on the whole, it seems like this is the time of the year when we all--the players included--forget that they can hang with teams like Wisconsin and Kansas, and instead spend weeks struggling against teams like Seton Hall (or old BE stalwarts Rutgers and UCF).
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 5, 2015 10:48:45 GMT -5
Yeah the senseless turnovers and silly, thoughtless fouls are the problems that resonate after last night. Deja vu all over again.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 5, 2015 10:53:19 GMT -5
We just need to get a bid, and we are still very well positioned to do that. Heck, our RPI dropped a whopping four spots last night (from 20 to 24). Do you know what our projected RPI is if we go 4-3 the rest of the way? 22. 3-4? 27. 2-5? 38. OK, so 2-5 would leave us sweating without at least a decent win in the BET (and we really have nothing to complain about if we really do go 2-5). But the point is that we need to take a deep breath (and an even deeper breath if Saturday doesn't go well) and find at least 3 more wins. 3-4 does the trick. They're certainly there for the taking. The fact that we would even talk about what might happen if we go under .500 the rest of the way just proves that we're all bracing for the annual limp through February and collapse in March. It seems like ever since 2008, when JTIII and Jeff Green declared February to be Georgetown's month, it's been anything but.* *Yes, I realize we've had some very good February wins. But on the whole, it seems like this is the time of the year when we all--the players included--forget that they can hang with teams like Wisconsin and Kansas, and instead spend weeks struggling against teams like Seton Hall (or old BE stalwarts Rutgers and UCF). I don't think we actually will go under .500. I'm just saying that we've done enough to date that even if we do, we'd still get a bid. It's good news, not bad news. And what are you talking about regarding February? Last year, we weren't very good (any month). But in 2012-13, we were 7-0 in February, en route to a regular season conference title. The year before that we were 6-2 (one of the losses in OT at Cuse). Sure, the year before that, Chris Wright got hurt, and we stunk down the stretch, but there certainly isn't some hex on February (or early March). It ain't gonna be as good as our November record due to the level of competition!
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Post by JohnnyJones on Feb 5, 2015 10:53:28 GMT -5
My positive takeaway from this game. Despite some early foul trouble for DSR, I am so happy that we no longer have to question what is wrong with DSR. He has come to play for a while now, and last night he was terrific - no turnovers, the only Hoya trying to do something with the ball, the steadying 3 point shooting, without DSR we are a lost team and he continues to get in the passing lanes. My biggest player concern is the diminishing play of Josh Smith since the Marquette game. He was been pretty bad on defense and not proactive on offense. He can be better, and I am hoping he comes out of his slump soon. I am very disappointed by his play considering this is it for him in college ball. Where is the urgency? My biggest coaching concern is III's hesitation to call a TO and run a play to at least get an open shot when the team hits the inevitable drought. It is OK to call multiple TOs even if the other team is not on a run, you get 5 of them. We also have depth, so why not use it to break a drought? How about we throw Bowen in there or Campbell? Neither of those two are intimidated and sometimes that is what we need most on the court. Bowen is a playmaker - good and bad. If we are in a rut, at least give him a shot to make something happen. That is better than to watch other pass the ball around the perimeter. DSR has been much better of late, but IMO he needs to be even more aggressive on offense - not in pushing things, but at least in not passing up open shots. It is really becoming more and more frustrating watching our shooters (and I am including all regular rotation players other than Smith, Hopkins and Bowen) pass up wide open threes. PC was repeatedly inviting us to take that shot with no pressure and we refuse to take it. Instead we hold the ball over our heads - wait 3 seconds (for the zone top adjust and take a breather) - and then pass it to the next guy who does the same thing. I would fine if most of our offensive possessions end with DSR taking a shot.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Feb 5, 2015 12:22:00 GMT -5
this was a terrible loss. the overall effort was subpar at best. defense was invisible other than fouling. the same offensive issues exist that III's teams have had for years. this offense requires a post player to facilitate the offense. III does not have that right now. there is no green, monroe or porter on this team. the freshman are too turnover prone and smith and hopkins don't have the skill set.
again, i think this is a devastating loss given it was at home to a team that beat us already. i fear a february swoon coming with the schedule ahead. nova is going to be out for blood this weekend. these guys better come ready to play much harder than they did against xavier and last night.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Feb 5, 2015 12:24:37 GMT -5
this was a terrible loss. the overall effort was subpar at best. defense was invisible other than fouling. the same offensive issues exist that III's teams have had for years. this offense requires a post player to facilitate the offense. III does not have that right now. there is no green, monroe or porter on this team. the freshman are too turnover prone and smith and hopkins don't have the skill set. again, i think this is a devastating loss given it was at home to a team that beat us already. i fear a february swoon coming with the schedule ahead. nova is going to be out for blood this weekend. these guys better come ready to play much harder than they did against xavier and last night. I am really surprised you feel that way. You are usually so positive and complimentary after a tough loss.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 5, 2015 12:29:19 GMT -5
This is the type of game you get occasionally with a freshman heavy team. Bad loss but we move forward. Dunn is special. If he stays, they are going to be a load next year too.
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hoyas1995
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyas1995 on Feb 5, 2015 12:37:40 GMT -5
Well, for what it's worth, Lunardi still has us penciled in as a 6 seed in today's bracket. Providence is a 6 seed too, so even though this loss stung, it's not a deal-breaker
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 5, 2015 12:42:32 GMT -5
After reading a criticism of JT3's coaching in the last ten minutes of the second half, as to substitutions and use of timeouts, I went back to the play-by-play on the guhoyas.com website. Here's what I found:
GU 60, PC 51 with 10:31 left: Campbell in, Bowen out GU 62, PC 56 with 8:38 left: Copeland in, White out GU 62, PC 58 with 7:49 left: GU timeout GU 65, PC 60 with 6:47 left: Hopkins and Peak in, Campbell and Smith out GU 66, PC 66 with 4:20 left: Smith in, Hopkins out GU 71, PC 70 with 0:45 left: GU timeout PC 72, GU 71 with 0:32 left: Hopkins in, Smith out with five fouls PC 72, GU 71 with 0:11 left: Campbell in, Hopkins out PC 74, GU 71 with 0:09 left: Hopkins in, Copeland out
My take: You can criticize the passage of time from 4:20 to 0:45 left without the taking of a timeout or additional substitution, but the fact is that GU was tied at 4:20 and was then ahead by a point at 0:45 when a timeout was taken (we finished the game with one timeout in our pocket). DSR and Trawick played the final 10:32 without substitution. Peak played the last 6:47 without substitution. Copeland played from 8:38 left until 0:09 left without substitution. My question is who would you rather have played in their place over that time period? Perhaps Campbell could/should have taken some of Trawick's minutes there, but that is also a classic second-guess; it isn't as though Campbell was appreciably better last night than Trawick. Over the last ten-plus minutes, DSR, Trawick, Peak and Copeland were all -8 on the +/-; prior to that period, DSR was +12, Trawick +4, Peak +4 and Copeland -3. At 10:38 to play, Campbell was -1 (he finished at -3).
Our offense got stagnant. Our upperclassmen didn't step up. Our freshmen looked tentative and unsure. Props to Providence for an impressive comeback win, but (from my perspective) the inescapable fact is that we should have found a way to hold on and win. Silly fouls and bad turnovers killed us.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 5, 2015 13:05:54 GMT -5
The glaring question to me is leaving Smith in on defense after we take the lead and call timeout with :45 left. Josh bulls his way into a foul and we lose both the lead and Josh. Gotta put Hopkins in, we still have a TO to get Josh back in if necessary.
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Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Feb 5, 2015 13:26:19 GMT -5
Why did we stop pressing in the 2nd half?? It was giving them fits in the first half.
We got out-coached. Just my opinion, don't shoot me people, but I think the sample size is large enough at this point.
III hasn't had a team (excluding his 1st season) that has played above its collective talent. We under perform or play to our talent (only to get embarrassed come tournament time.) This team is too damn talented to get swept by Xavier and Providence. So frustrating.
And yes people, yes. I know. III is the best we can do and he isn't going anywhere. I am just out of excuses trying to defend him.
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gujake
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by gujake on Feb 5, 2015 13:37:54 GMT -5
The glaring question to me is leaving Smith in on defense after we take the lead and call timeout with :45 left. Josh bulls his way into a foul and we lose both the lead and Josh. Gotta put Hopkins in, we still have a TO to get Josh back in if necessary. Yeah, I'm not sure what the thought process was on that. Maybe he thought he needed a bigger body to defend Desrosiers? Not sure why he subbed Hopkins in for Copeland for the last possession down by 3 either.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 5, 2015 13:44:35 GMT -5
We just need to get a bid, and we are still very well positioned to do that. Heck, our RPI dropped a whopping four spots last night (from 20 to 24). Do you know what our projected RPI is if we go 4-3 the rest of the way? 22. 3-4? 27. 2-5? 38. OK, so 2-5 would leave us sweating without at least a decent win in the BET (and we really have nothing to complain about if we really do go 2-5). But the point is that we need to take a deep breath (and an even deeper breath if Saturday doesn't go well) and find at least 3 more wins. 3-4 does the trick. They're certainly there for the taking. The fact that we would even talk about what might happen if we go under .500 the rest of the way just proves that we're all bracing for the annual limp through February and collapse in March. It seems like ever since 2008, when JTIII and Jeff Green declared February to be Georgetown's month, it's been anything but.* *Yes, I realize we've had some very good February wins. But on the whole, it seems like this is the time of the year when we all--the players included--forget that they can hang with teams like Wisconsin and Kansas, and instead spend weeks struggling against teams like Seton Hall (or old BE stalwarts Rutgers and UCF). Jeff Green was in Seattle, Washington in 2008, and the University of Central Florida was never a BE stalwart.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 5, 2015 13:47:14 GMT -5
this was a terrible loss. the overall effort was subpar at best. defense was invisible other than fouling. the same offensive issues exist that III's teams have had for years. this offense requires a post player to facilitate the offense. III does not have that right now. there is no green, monroe or porter on this team. the freshman are too turnover prone and smith and hopkins don't have the skill set. again, i think this is a devastating loss given it was at home to a team that beat us already. i fear a february swoon coming with the schedule ahead. nova is going to be out for blood this weekend. these guys better come ready to play much harder than they did against xavier and last night. Nova may indeed be out for blood and they should be expected to win. But I will shocked if we don't bring exemplary effort. From the standpoint of trying to win at Nova, getting humiliated at home right beforehand is about the best motivation there is. Think what happened to Creighton last Saturday, or better yet what we did at Notre Dame in 2013 after losing at home to USF. I would prefer that something other than another road game (at SHU) followed the Nova game in case we do lose, because a three-game losing streak would make everyone very, very nervous, even with the St. Johns/DePaul homestand coming up.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 5, 2015 13:54:42 GMT -5
Why did we stop pressing in the 2nd half?? It was giving them fits in the first half. We got out-coached. Just my opinion, don't shoot me people, but I think the sample size is large enough at this point. III hasn't had a team (excluding his 1st season) that has played above its collective talent. We under perform or play to our talent (only to get embarrassed come tournament time.) This team is too damn talented to get swept by Xavier and Providence. So frustrating. And yes people, yes. I know. III is the best we can do and he isn't going anywhere. I am just out of excuses trying to defend him. I agree we got outcoached last night by a very good coach in Cooley. There have been times where we have been outcoached earlier this season as well, but of course we never give III credit when he does the outcoaching. The rest of your post is a stretch. Two years ago a team led by Otto Porter won the BE title. That team had no expectation of winning the title that year and shocked everyone. III got more out of that team defensively than anyone could have dreamed of. In 2011/2012 in what most thought would be a rebuilding season, after the departues of Wright/Freeman, a team led by Henry Sims and Jason Clark played well above expectations to finish 24-9 and 12-6 in the BE. If you are just using March as your argument, you cannot just ignore the other 33 games before that one and pretend we did not do well in the BE or regular season. I also question the level of "talent" many posters think we have on this team versus other BE teams. Who on this talented Hoyas team would you take over Dunn on PC? The best player in the league. Henton is also a tough call compared to DSR, but he is pretty good too. The freshman are just raw talent, not productive yet so the real value of the talent they bring this season is questionable. As for our seniors, I would hate to do it, so I won't, but if you want to go through seniors on other BE teams, I do not think ours rank as high as you think. This idea that we have cornered the market on talent and therefore we are under-achieving versus top half BE teams is just nonsense. There are good players on most BE teams, and most of them rank very evenly, if not better, than the Hoyas "talent".
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