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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 28, 2014 20:05:08 GMT -5
Peak was 0-4 with 0 assists and 2 turnovers and failed to close out on at least 2 three-pointers. Bowen was worse overall, but he did have some points and boards; to claim that Peak was a non-factor is inaccurate. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Fair enough. Although we agree that AB had the worst game of the day.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Nov 28, 2014 20:11:53 GMT -5
Didn't get to watch the game today, but sounds like we are a work in progress right now. I suppose that is what will happen when 4 freshmen (and not UK frosh either) make up a significant part of your team. But Copeland, who was a ghost for the first 5 games, was apparently great tonight. So, can we take from this? We now know that all of our freshman can be huge for us this year---and we also know that all of them can look like freshman. As long as we get a couple of them a game play well, we will be fine. Hopefully by the end of the season ALL of them will be playing like vets, and then we make our miracle March run!
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Nov 28, 2014 20:16:03 GMT -5
Not happy with the loss, but this trip was a great learning experience for the young guys and the Hoyas got a Top 25ish RPI win OOC on a neutral site, that can only help in March. Playing a bunch of creampuffs was never going to show the frosh what it takes to win at the highest D1 level or deliver a resume win for the NCAAs.
Butler will definitely be a better team than most expected, probably a bubble team at worse and very competitive in the BE. They have a real identity and a toughness few teams possess. I think the young guys now see that talent alone will not win at this level. You need to bring it every night and every play. Talented teams like Wisconsin play hard and less talented, but very cohesive groups like Butler play even harder on both sides. In high school I doubt there was much worry about extra possessions, but when you are playing a team like Butler, each possession counts. Turnovers, missed FTs and defenses lapses will kill you.
Overall, this was a net positive experience for the whole team. DSR found his shot and further defined his role, Josh Smith showed he can play against big time frontcourts and White showed all of us he is a flat out player. I am optimistic about what this team will become by Feb/Mar. A few early knocks, will help this team at the end, and that is all we care about.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 28, 2014 20:20:17 GMT -5
Butler will definitely be a better team than most expected, probably a bubble team at worse and very competitive in the BE. They have a real identity and a toughness few teams possess. I think the young guys now see that talent alone will not win at this level. You need to bring it every night and every play. Talented teams like Wisconsin play hard and less talented, but very cohesive groups like Butler play even harder on both sides. In high school I doubt there was much worry about extra possessions, but when you are playing a team like Butler, each possession counts. Turnovers, missed FTs and defenses lapses will kill you. They have a real coach now so I think their personnel wasn't as bad as they looked last year. That Brandon Miller guy was a mediocre coach and let the school and team down when he left. As long as he doesn't come back, Butler should make the tourney.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 28, 2014 20:21:43 GMT -5
I know that both Hops and Josh are done aftr this year. What I was saying is that I would be going after two-three bigs. The problem is we need to bringing in more players as developed as Peak, Copeland, and White. We have two HS all-american four star bigs coming in. Does that suffice? In my opinion, that is good for starters. We just need to make sure that we are recruiting heavy rather than to meet just existing needs. Recruit heavy and recruit caliber players that can come in and contribute right away. Our current group of freshmen should be the standard.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Nov 28, 2014 20:24:20 GMT -5
Personally, I think if we get DSR to come back next season we have a chance to win the whole thing. That's how much I think of this team next year
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 28, 2014 20:28:16 GMT -5
I agree. But we need to still be adding key pieces. I do believe if Govan and Derrikson can come in and contribute like the freshmen we have now we can go very far. Wisconsin seems to be a team that has players who have been playing together two-three years.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by NCHoya on Nov 28, 2014 20:34:22 GMT -5
Agree Bowen had a rough game. You never really know what you are going to get from Bowen from game to game. He is probably III's toughest task when it comes to allocating playing time.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Nov 28, 2014 20:35:15 GMT -5
Butler will definitely be a better team than most expected, probably a bubble team at worse and very competitive in the BE. They have a real identity and a toughness few teams possess. I think the young guys now see that talent alone will not win at this level. You need to bring it every night and every play. Talented teams like Wisconsin play hard and less talented, but very cohesive groups like Butler play even harder on both sides. In high school I doubt there was much worry about extra possessions, but when you are playing a team like Butler, each possession counts. Turnovers, missed FTs and defenses lapses will kill you. They have a real coach now so I think their personnel wasn't as bad as they looked last year. That Brandon Miller guy was a mediocre coach and let the school and team down when he left. As long as he doesn't come back, Butler should make the tourney. It's very hard to say that Brandon Miller let Butler down when he left, as he left due to medical issues over which he likely had no control. He has taken a twelve-week leave of absence under the Federal Family and Medical Leave Act, and although no one has commented publicly on why, other coaches against whom he was recruiting opined that he had become very withdrawn, and that no one has heard from him since the leave of absence started. The leave of absence will run through the end of December, and it appears unlikely (at least according to media reports in Indianapolis) that he will return when the twelve weeks have passed. It is anticipated that Chris Holtmann will stay as coach, have the interim tag removed, and the Bulldogs will move forward.
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Nov 28, 2014 20:35:40 GMT -5
I would pump the breaks on how bad this loss is...
The team beat #18 Florida, lost to #5 Wisconsin, and lost to Butler who beat #5 North Carolina... Neither loss is a season definer, as both teams will be ranked in next week's poll. 1 thing about losing to Butler today, is that the Hoyas have 2 more chances to avenge this loss in addition to the the positive play from White and Copeland.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 28, 2014 20:37:36 GMT -5
They definitely played well against Wisconsin but with 15 to's and only 7 assists I can't go along with the extremely high level description.. Wisconsin just spanked Oklahoma (who have a very good team). Limiting preseason national player of the year Kaminsky to 6 pts on 1-8 shooting and only 4 rebounds is playing at an extremely high level. I'll agree the team did a great job against Kaminsky but the rest of their team shot 60%.. Outside of DSR G'town wasn't even good offensively imo, I don't see how folks can say they played extremely well.. I believe the team has a lot of potential but imho they haven't played great yet..
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Nov 28, 2014 20:41:20 GMT -5
They have a real coach now so I think their personnel wasn't as bad as they looked last year. That Brandon Miller guy was a mediocre coach and let the school and team down when he left. As long as he doesn't come back, Butler should make the tourney. It's very hard to say that Brandon Miller let Butler down when he left, as he left due to medical issues over which he likely had no control. He has taken a twelve-week leave of absence under the Federal Family and Medical Leave Act, and although no one has commented publicly on why, other coaches against whom he was recruiting opined that he had become very withdrawn, and that no one has heard from him since the leave of absence started. The leave of absence will run through the end of December, and it appears unlikely (at least according to media reports in Indianapolis) that he will return when the twelve weeks have passed. It is anticipated that Chris Holtmann will stay as coach, have the interim tag removed, and the Bulldogs will move forward. It seems clear to me Butler is a much different team this season with same personnel. Some of their players look like totally different players, playing much quicker and more instinctively. This coach seems like a good fit and may have already taken the job from Miller. Let's just say the Butler AD will not be pressuring Miller to come back, and maybe that is actually a good thing for all those involved.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Nov 28, 2014 20:45:15 GMT -5
I would pump the breaks on how bad this loss is... The team beat #18 Florida, lost to #5 Wisconsin, and lost to Butler who beat #5 North Carolina... Neither loss is a season definer, as both teams will be ranked in next week's poll. 1 thing about losing to Butler today, is that the Hoyas have 2 more chances to avenge this loss in addition to the the positive play from White and Copeland. Honestly, if these last two losses launch White and Copeland up the freshman learning curve, I will take that trade-off. Each of those two guys have the ability to be all-BE players and the sooner they can get comfortable the sooner the Hoyas will be putting together long winning streaks.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Nov 28, 2014 20:48:49 GMT -5
North Carolina 34, Florida 17
UNC since losing to Butler has wiped the floor with two ranked teams
You guys still think this was a bad loss?
I think this was a close loss to a very good team
And I think we will be a very good team at some point this season
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 28, 2014 20:49:30 GMT -5
Wisconsin just spanked Oklahoma (who have a very good team). Limiting preseason national player of the year Kaminsky to 6 pts on 1-8 shooting and only 4 rebounds is playing at an extremely high level. I'll agree the team did a great job against Kaminsky but the rest of their team shot 60%.. Outside of DSR G'town wasn't even good offensively imo, I don't see how folks can say they played extremely well.. I believe the team has a lot of potential but imho they haven't played great yet.. Let's face it if the rim interference and over the back on Dekker is called and/or DSR hits that 3 or some combination of events in the last 30 seconds and we end up winning this game then people would say we played extremely well. I think that still holds even though we lost and got robbed by the refs on some calls (like the ball bouncing off Dekker's leg out of bounds or stepping on the line that the refs seemed to ignore). You hold the national preseason player of the year and Mr. Double Double to 6 pts, 4 rebs, 12.5 % shooting, you are doing well. And it's not like the rest of the Wisconsin team scored alot of points either.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 28, 2014 20:49:45 GMT -5
The loss won't hurt us come tourney time. We have two more cracks at Butler and there's more non-con chances ahead.
This loss is more disturbing as a bellweather. Our bad teams are never awful under III. Even when we miss the tourney we have big wins. It's the extra losses that kill us. If this team can't consistently bring it like they did against Wisconsin, it's not going to be a big year. This game is one data point, but it isn't in the right direction.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 28, 2014 20:57:19 GMT -5
They have a real coach now so I think their personnel wasn't as bad as they looked last year. That Brandon Miller guy was a mediocre coach and let the school and team down when he left. As long as he doesn't come back, Butler should make the tourney. It's very hard to say that Brandon Miller let Butler down when he left, as he left due to medical issues over which he likely had no control. He has taken a twelve-week leave of absence under the Federal Family and Medical Leave Act, and although no one has commented publicly on why, other coaches against whom he was recruiting opined that he had become very withdrawn, and that no one has heard from him since the leave of absence started. The leave of absence will run through the end of December, and it appears unlikely (at least according to media reports in Indianapolis) that he will return when the twelve weeks have passed. It is anticipated that Chris Holtmann will stay as coach, have the interim tag removed, and the Bulldogs will move forward. In almost every other case of a coach leaving on medical absence the coach usually explains why he is going on leave. (such as when Patino had prostate cancer). But Brandon Miller left under mysterious circumstances and the fans, boosters and potential recruits have no idea why or when or if he is coming back. He should have explained why he was taking the absence or quit which would have allowed the Butler players to move on and Butler to get a good recruiting class instead of basically costing them this year's recruiting class. And it's been going on since early summer so it's not just 12 weeks which seems a little more palpable than over 6 months.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Nov 28, 2014 21:00:23 GMT -5
The loss won't hurt us come tourney time. We have two more cracks at Butler and there's more non-con chances ahead. This loss is more disturbing as a bellweather. Our bad teams are never awful under III. Even when we miss the tourney we have big wins. It's the extra losses that kill us. If this team can't consistently bring it like they did against Wisconsin, it's not going to be a big year. This game is one data point, but it isn't in the right direction. That is a good point, if you think we are better than Butler. I am not sure that is objectively true. We very well could have lost to the better team today. And not just that wishy washy Butler was the better team just today. Butler's best could be better than our best at this point in the season. In which case I don't think this is a bellweather, like Northeastern was a bellweather. More like an indication of where we currently are, similar to Old Dominion in 2007.* *Disclaimer: Not saying we are at all similar to the 2007 team.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Nov 28, 2014 21:12:40 GMT -5
It's very hard to say that Brandon Miller let Butler down when he left, as he left due to medical issues over which he likely had no control. He has taken a twelve-week leave of absence under the Federal Family and Medical Leave Act, and although no one has commented publicly on why, other coaches against whom he was recruiting opined that he had become very withdrawn, and that no one has heard from him since the leave of absence started. The leave of absence will run through the end of December, and it appears unlikely (at least according to media reports in Indianapolis) that he will return when the twelve weeks have passed. It is anticipated that Chris Holtmann will stay as coach, have the interim tag removed, and the Bulldogs will move forward. In almost every other case of a coach leaving on medical absence the coach usually explains why he is going on leave. (such as when Patino had prostate cancer). But Brandon Miller left under mysterious circumstances and the fans, boosters and potential recruits have no idea why or when or if he is coming back. He should have explained why he was taking the absence or quit which would have allowed the Butler players to move on and Butler to get a good recruiting class instead of basically costing them this year's recruiting class. And it's been going on since early summer so it's not just 12 weeks which seems a little more palpable than over 6 months. With all due respect, professorhoya, you could not be more wrong. There have been implications that there are mental health issues involved here for Brandon Miller. You expect him, under those circumstances, to come forward and tell every one that he is stepping down due to those specific issues? Whose business is it anyway? Isn't his health more important than whether his stepping down adversely impacts recruiting? The school cannot disclose the reasons for the leave of absence without violating federal HIPAA laws. I only hope that you and your family would not have to confront those types of issues and then have to publicly announce why you, or a family member, are taking a leave of absence. Life, believe it or not, is more than basketball. Hopefully Miller can return in some capacity somewhere, and resume his career without the shadow of the reasons why he had to step down as head coach on a temporary basis.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Nov 28, 2014 21:18:22 GMT -5
NJHOYA78
You are correct and I second your viewpoint. Miller is under no obligation to discuss his private medical condition. My assumption is there are mental/emotional issues and I hope Miller is able to work them out in time and enjoy his life, his family and whatever career he chooses.
From a purely basketball POV however, it seems pretty clear that Butler would be better off if this interim coach gets the nod and becomes the official HC. He is the real deal. It sounds like that is the likely outcome when Miller's 12 weeks are up around the first of the year.
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