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Post by hoyadestroya on Nov 27, 2014 9:00:11 GMT -5
The Josh fouls remind me when Sweetney was playing. Dude is so much bigger than most defenders. I hope he finds a way to stay on the floor during games where the refs call those fouls. He's looking alot more active too, not just staying in the block.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 27, 2014 9:07:04 GMT -5
Agreed re: the Sweetney comparison. We may need some more Ts from JT III to deal with this nonsense.
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Post by pahoyafan1 on Nov 27, 2014 9:14:48 GMT -5
Im guessing Wisconsin plays their traditional half court pace making sound decisions and making open looks. I wonder if we try to create a more frantic pace like last night give our aathletes. I have not seen Wisconsin play yet so not sure if that would help us. Great to see Paul come along so early with Peak, they will be a tremendous part of our success this year
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Nov 27, 2014 9:35:13 GMT -5
I thought the elbow rule had some degree of subjectivity by the refs no? If it's determined that it was a legitimate, controlled basketball play there shouldn't be a foul called. Both instances it wasn't a matter of Josh violently swinging his arms. If not, this is really how the rule should read. I get penalizing a player for a blow to the head in the context of an intentional or wild elbow, but literally what are you supposed to do?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 27, 2014 9:35:53 GMT -5
Agreed re: the Sweetney comparison. We may need some more Ts from JT III to deal with this nonsense. Per GU staff on site that was not a technical on III, it was a bench T for a player leaving the bench.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 27, 2014 9:44:51 GMT -5
One Chvotkin "Hoyas win!" For each of DSR's points last night BTW.
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Post by daymondmyles on Nov 27, 2014 10:13:14 GMT -5
From listening to the game, it sounded more like the pace wasn't that slow, it just that there were lots of misses. Interested to hear what people who watched the game thought as well, MCI. Hmmm. A lot of misses for Florida for sure but the Hoyas shot about 49%, right? Yes but a lot of turnovers. They really didn't slow the pace down. They kept attacking but the zone, great D by Florida and physical play & turnovers limited scoring.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 27, 2014 10:24:11 GMT -5
There is no choice. It goes to the monitor. And it was what is now flagrant. See, but there is a choice. The refs dictate the way the game is called. They should penalize dirty and dangerous plays and otherwise let the players play. There are numerous ways in which rigid enforcement of numerous rules (traveling is an obvious example) could ruin the game. This rule needs to be treated similarly before it is eradicated. I agree that it's a horrible rule. But when the kid that was "fouled" goes to the locker room because he's bleeding, they really don't have a choice but to review the play. To me, that's just the cost of doing business when you lead with your chin. I feel about that the way I feel about the touch fouls early in the game. They do nothing but disrupt the game. That was the best possible outcome for Horford. He couldn't cover Josh so his next best option is to draw a foul. It's a stupid rule that needs to allow for context. I get that concussions are a problem in general. But just because a guy gets his bell rung doesn't make it a tech on the guy causing the contact. Sometimes the guy that gets hit is getting hit because of his own poor positioning. What about the damage to Josh's elbow by coming into contact with Horford's chin? Where's the tech for that? We're going to need the big man and we can't have him with a balky elbow!!
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 27, 2014 10:25:12 GMT -5
I thought the elbow rule had some degree of subjectivity by the refs no? If it's determined that it was a legitimate, controlled basketball play there shouldn't be a foul called. Both instances it wasn't a matter of Josh violently swinging his arms. If not, this is really how the rule should read. I get penalizing a player for a blow to the head in the context of an intentional or wild elbow, but literally what are you supposed to do? As I understand it, if there's an elbow hitting a head, there is no real discretion.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Nov 27, 2014 10:25:28 GMT -5
I thought the elbow rule had some degree of subjectivity by the refs no? If it's determined that it was a legitimate, controlled basketball play there shouldn't be a foul called. Both instances it wasn't a matter of Josh violently swinging his arms. If not, this is really how the rule should read. I get penalizing a player for a blow to the head in the context of an intentional or wild elbow, but literally what are you supposed to do? JTIII handled the issue well in the post-game press conference. He said that he hadn't seen video of either play, so he'd want to check it before being sure. He pointed out that officials have an advantage because they can review the plays at the monitor. And he said basically said that it's a tough rule, but if that's the rule then they're going to have to teach Josh how to adjust his post moves to account for it. I think the rule is too rigid, but it's been around long enough that offensive players should be able to adjust. There are plenty of examples of elbow contact that under the rule draw flagrant one fouls and are inadvertent or unavoidable, and those are pretty tough to me. But Josh's two last night, while he's not intending to injure a guy, are clearly avoidable. I get--and agree--that centers should be allowed to make post moves, and late defense is a pain. However, there are plenty of perfectly legit post moves that don't involve swinging your elbows at the height (at least shoulder level) that's gonna hit a defender in the face. On both of Josh's plays last night, a jump hook would've been ideal. Or spinning the opposite direction...or backing a dude under the basket with your enormous girth. Turning into a defender with your elbows up just ain't gonna do it...even if you don't make contact, there's a greater chance you're getting it stripped if the defender holds their ground. Also...just gonna leave this here: FLHoya · 12h 12 hours ago Doug Sirmons officiated GU's NCAA losses in 2008, 2011 and 2012 in case you want to fast forward to our entire frontcourt fouling out.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Nov 27, 2014 10:34:03 GMT -5
I thought the elbow rule had some degree of subjectivity by the refs no? If it's determined that it was a legitimate, controlled basketball play there shouldn't be a foul called. Both instances it wasn't a matter of Josh violently swinging his arms. If not, this is really how the rule should read. I get penalizing a player for a blow to the head in the context of an intentional or wild elbow, but literally what are you supposed to do? JTIII handled the issue well in the post-game press conference. He said that he hadn't seen video of either play, so he'd want to check it before being sure. He pointed out that officials have an advantage because they can review the plays at the monitor. And he said basically said that it's a tough rule, but if that's the rule then they're going to have to teach Josh how to adjust his post moves to account for it. I think the rule is too rigid, but it's been around long enough that offensive players should be able to adjust. There are plenty of examples of elbow contact that under the rule draw flagrant one fouls and are inadvertent or unavoidable, and those are pretty tough to me. But Josh's two last night, while he's not intending to injure a guy, are clearly avoidable. I get--and agree--that centers should be allowed to make post moves, and late defense is a pain. However, there are plenty of perfectly legit post moves that don't involve swinging your elbows at the height (at least shoulder level) that's gonna hit a defender in the face. On both of Josh's plays last night, a jump hook would've been ideal. Or spinning the opposite direction...or backing a dude under the basket with your enormous girth. Turning into a defender with your elbows up just ain't gonna do it...even if you don't make contact, there's a greater chance you're getting it stripped if the defender holds their ground. Also...just gonna leave this here: FLHoya · 12h 12 hours ago Doug Sirmons officiated GU's NCAA losses in 2008, 2011 and 2012 in case you want to fast forward to our entire frontcourt fouling out. One thing I was surprised about was that on the first one on Josh the basket counted. The whole game I was worried that was a mistake and they were going to take the 2 points back! I guess that is how it works (basket counts), but I am surprised by that.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 27, 2014 10:41:33 GMT -5
Game coverage starts at 3 today (Eastern time) on ESPN for those wondering. I saw 3:30 posted earlier in the thread somewhere.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 27, 2014 10:41:54 GMT -5
JTIII handled the issue well in the post-game press conference. He said that he hadn't seen video of either play, so he'd want to check it before being sure. He pointed out that officials have an advantage because they can review the plays at the monitor. And he said basically said that it's a tough rule, but if that's the rule then they're going to have to teach Josh how to adjust his post moves to account for it. I think the rule is too rigid, but it's been around long enough that offensive players should be able to adjust. There are plenty of examples of elbow contact that under the rule draw flagrant one fouls and are inadvertent or unavoidable, and those are pretty tough to me. But Josh's two last night, while he's not intending to injure a guy, are clearly avoidable. I get--and agree--that centers should be allowed to make post moves, and late defense is a pain. However, there are plenty of perfectly legit post moves that don't involve swinging your elbows at the height (at least shoulder level) that's gonna hit a defender in the face. On both of Josh's plays last night, a jump hook would've been ideal. Or spinning the opposite direction...or backing a dude under the basket with your enormous girth. Turning into a defender with your elbows up just ain't gonna do it...even if you don't make contact, there's a greater chance you're getting it stripped if the defender holds their ground. Also...just gonna leave this here: FLHoya · 12h 12 hours ago Doug Sirmons officiated GU's NCAA losses in 2008, 2011 and 2012 in case you want to fast forward to our entire frontcourt fouling out. One thing I was surprised about was that on the first one on Josh the basket counted. The whole game I was worried that was a mistake and they were going to take the 2 points back! I guess that is how it works (basket counts), but I am surprised by that. I was in the same boat.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 27, 2014 10:45:27 GMT -5
I'll take your word for it. Thanks. Washington Post couldn't even send G. Wang to the Bahamas.it seems. LOL. Anyone living in the DC area probably knows by now the sad state of local coverage. The W. Times doesn't cover Gtown anymore. The Post gives Gtown a good writer who is also responsible for covering about three or more other local teams...and may not have much of a travelling budget. And since the AP has decided not to cover any unranked team outside of the Big Five, the Hoyas don't even get covered anymore by the DC based AP guys. Amazing. Meanwhile the WPost may have already done more extensive coverage of the Terps' Trimble than they ever did of Otto porter during his two seasons. Yes, it is the annual MCI whine regarding the local media. Print is dead. Ben Standig at csnwashington.com needs to be your source for Hoyas news, though even he was not sent to the Bahamas and he too covers like 4 beats. Print may be dead or dying but those print writers put up their coverage for online consumption too. So they're covering all the bases. Plus...they get a better budget for travel. More than happy with Standing though. The guy even goes to Kenner League games.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 27, 2014 10:47:33 GMT -5
I thought the elbow rule had some degree of subjectivity by the refs no? If it's determined that it was a legitimate, controlled basketball play there shouldn't be a foul called. Both instances it wasn't a matter of Josh violently swinging his arms. If not, this is really how the rule should read. I get penalizing a player for a blow to the head in the context of an intentional or wild elbow, but literally what are you supposed to do? JTIII handled the issue well in the post-game press conference. He said that he hadn't seen video of either play, so he'd want to check it before being sure. He pointed out that officials have an advantage because they can review the plays at the monitor. And he said basically said that it's a tough rule, but if that's the rule then they're going to have to teach Josh how to adjust his post moves to account for it. I think the rule is too rigid, but it's been around long enough that offensive players should be able to adjust. There are plenty of examples of elbow contact that under the rule draw flagrant one fouls and are inadvertent or unavoidable, and those are pretty tough to me. But Josh's two last night, while he's not intending to injure a guy, are clearly avoidable. I get--and agree--that centers should be allowed to make post moves, and late defense is a pain. However, there are plenty of perfectly legit post moves that don't involve swinging your elbows at the height (at least shoulder level) that's gonna hit a defender in the face. On both of Josh's plays last night, a jump hook would've been ideal. Or spinning the opposite direction...or backing a dude under the basket with your enormous girth. Turning into a defender with your elbows up just ain't gonna do it...even if you don't make contact, there's a greater chance you're getting it stripped if the defender holds their ground. Also...just gonna leave this here: FLHoya · 12h 12 hours ago Doug Sirmons officiated GU's NCAA losses in 2008, 2011 and 2012 in case you want to fast forward to our entire frontcourt fouling out. He didn't "swing" his elbows. He turned and faced the basket, there's a difference. That's literally as small as he could make his arms while holding the ball above his shoulders. There was nothing else he could do. Telling him he can shoot a hook instead of facing the basket is just silly.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Nov 27, 2014 11:33:15 GMT -5
That losers side of the B4A bracket is ridiculous. AXS may attain their best all-time rating if there's a UNC-UF 5th place game. Ha ha ha ha ha ha....... That is, if AXS is available at all in either of those markets. Hope that they get the same announcing crew that we had to endure last night.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Nov 27, 2014 11:48:21 GMT -5
Really nice win and it will definitely help the continued growth of the younger players. In my view though the best thing about this game was that the Hoyas beat a good team while generally playing poorly for large stretches of the game. Seriously, until the later 4-5 minutes of the game and the overtime the Hoyas were inconsistent, DSR was not playing to his level of ability and the younger players looked , well like young players. Florida had numerous wide open 3s that simply were not falling, particularly from the corners. Hoya rebounding was weak during large stretches as well. That would have been the story with a loss, instead of the confidence boost that should come for Peak and White. But I am really excited now as this team has clearly got the skill and the moxie to overcome poor play against a good opponent. Really applaud the coach for sticking with his game plan despite execution issues and numerous turnovers. Love the quicker tempo. Kudos to Josh Smith for another high effort game. Kudos to the coaches using an offense/defense substitution at the post throughout the overtime. Hopefully they have the energy and toughness to handle a much stronger opponent today on less than 16 hours of rest. We are very quick to jump all over JT3 and his in-game coaching decisions. Here, it's time to give him a lot of credit. His substitution patterns, especially late in regulation and in overtime, put the Hoyas in a position to win a game that they tried to throw away with too many turnovers. A coach cannot execute on the court, but he can put his best lineups out in situational circumstances (such as offensive/defensive shuffles) to maximize the end result. This may have been one of JT3's best game coaching efforts, and we should give him the credit he deserves.
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GUMBA
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Post by GUMBA on Nov 27, 2014 11:53:59 GMT -5
Josh needs to back players down - Shaq style. If they are going to play him so tight with their bodies and look for elbow contact then he should simply bulldoze them with his back end. He was getting doubled by Florida every time he touched the ball last night. He didn't seem to be able to pass out to the open perimeter player very well. When he was positioned up high at the top of the key and handed off to DSR he was drawing defenders and creating lanes. On his roll toward the basket after the handoff DSR need to look for Josh. He was open more than a few times there. Perhaps he just couldn't make the entry pass over the top. Our Hoyas also need to box out to prevent those second chance tip in buckets. Florida must have scored four or five baskets after a great defensive effort by the Hoyas and a terrible shot, only to have a garbage man two by an unblocked Florida forward. Props to DSR for staying with his shot after failing to make so many threes. Peak and White are for real and will be key to continued success this season. Given all the poor perimeter shooting I was wondering if playing in a ballroom had some type of effect on the players. Nobody seemed to be able to hit from outside last night - Gators or Hoyas. Was the perimeter shooting in the other games just as bad?
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 27, 2014 11:59:11 GMT -5
No. Tre makes us small which effects us defensively and with rebounds and DSR at the 2 decreases Trawick/Peak/AB's overall minutes. Really? Tre is our best on the ball defender, and it allows DSR guard the opponent's two, which gives him a break. As for rebounding, I am not sure size helps us there - Josh & Hops cant d-rebound to save their lives. Trawick / Bowen / Peak are all big enough to play the 3. And our small lineup saved the game tonight. Just saying. No. Let's not mess around with the line-up now. Josh, depending on who we are playing is still a huge asset. Lil Tre is a frisky, confident guard, but right now, size does matter. The key right now is to go with the expanded rotation--11 man rotation is what we should stick with. The one thing we have to do is see every game as a development tool. Patino does an excellent job of this. Come march, we need battlle-tested players.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 27, 2014 11:59:41 GMT -5
Also...just gonna leave this here: FLHoya · 12h 12 hours ago Doug Sirmons officiated GU's NCAA losses in 2008, 2011 and 2012 in case you want to fast forward to our entire frontcourt fouling out. Yup, refs have no influence on the outcomes of games. None at all.
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